heres a gas pressure vessel can i get some advice.

[Capernicus]

whatever you do,  dont buy an oxytorch.

[Monkeh]

whatever you do,  dont buy an oxytorch.

I've used them quite safely, because I understand how flammable gasses and accelerants behave.

FYI, the E size cylinder in the video posted a few minutes ago is 5l internal volume. And probably exploded like that simply by the effort of attempting to unscrew the valve.

[IanB]

I'm not sure what I'm doing

I dont know what I'm doing at all.

So... how dangerous is it really

I bet its perfectly safe

I think ill be fine.

I be careful it should be ok.

I wonder how big the explosion would be.

[Monkeh]

I'm not sure what I'm doing

I dont know what I'm doing at all.

So... how dangerous is it really

I bet its perfectly safe

I think ill be fine.

I be careful it should be ok.

I wonder how big the explosion would be.

Dunning-Kruger in action.

[jmelson]

Pure oxygen is extremely dangerous.  There have been fatal explosions where commerical oxygen bottles have caught fire and exploded due to minute amounts of oils or even fingerprints on internal parts.  There was a recall of medical oxygen bottles which came with brass regulators where the wrong grade of brass was used.  Almost all materials are combustible in even standard atmospheric pressure pure oxygen.  The US Air Force did a test back in the 1950's to see if airmen would be harmed by breathing pure oxygen.  Somebody changed a burned-out light bulb, the spark when the new bulb made contact ignited the light socket, the ceramic socket then ignited, an asbestos fire blanket then ignited, and the opened the door and barely escaped.  Check out the Apollo 1 fire in 1967 that killed 3 astronauts.  Slightly above normal atmospheric pressure, pure oxygen.  The whole Apollo capsule was incinerated.  Also, check out the Egypt Air flight 667 fire in a Boeing 777 at the Cairo, Egypt airport.  A wire sparked to the crew oxygen line, and burned the cockpit to a complete cinder.  If that happened in the air, it would ahve been a catastrophe, but they were still parked at the gate.
Jon

[Capernicus]

I've used them quite safely, because I understand how flammable gasses and accelerants behave.

Yeh I see now,  Whats the flammable and whats the accellerant out of hydrogen and oxygen.

It could be the other way around.

Ones + and ones -,  they are both flammable, its when they hit each other where the problem is.

[Monkeh]

The accelerant is oxygen and the flammable is absolutely everything around it, including metal.

[Capernicus]

soda bottle plastic?

[TimFox]

Be sure to get your entry in ante mortem.
https://darwinawards.com/

[IanB]

soda bottle plastic?

Does plastic burn?

As a rule of thumb, things which don't burn are combustion products like ash. If the thing you are looking at is not already burned, it is likely it will burn. This means that most things are flammable (including metal).

[TimFox]

https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/05-14.pdf
See pp 18ff for data on common plastic bottle materials.
Do you have Google?

[LaserSteve]

When I was learning glassblowing as a high school junior I learned not to wear sweaters with the torch running. Even with balanced combustion going on, enough gas combustion products and unburned oxygen  would build up in the cable knit  sleeve that I could smack my arm with my hand, and the gas would travel to the torch and ignite with a whump. That was an eye opening experience.

Please see attached pictures of a car with  a compressed gas expansion incident..  First the released  gas expanded the car. Then it exploded AFTER an ignition source was found.


Find some one experienced with Sol-Gel chemistry and have a chat with them. Ask them to show you a real certified and proof tested pressure vessel. It looks nothing like what you have pictured.

Google ASTM pressure vessel and read what you find.

Hydrothermal crystal growth does not need the satursted o2, either. But it does need a proper pressure vessel that weights tonnes and operates in an armored containment facility, by remote control.

Please don't try what you propose.

Note, I deleted the politically incorrect "Man from Lox" from my post. Sadly it is a wartime video, and probably inappropriate for EEVblog. The demos in-between the sexist portions are very good, and show what unconfined  oxygen at low pressure can do.



Steve.

[SmallCog]

The pressure vessel you linked has a table with a column labelled bar.

Presuming this is it's maximum, the value of 8 equates to 116psi

Given that the vessel has a flat top and bottom I'm surprised it's even this high, the more pressure a vessel is designed to take the less chance you'll see a flat surface.

I'm not sure which state you're in but what you propose may require registration given the pressures and substances. A basic guide can be found here: https://abvinspections.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Guide-to-Pressure-Vessel-Item-Registration.pdf

I've been through the pain of registering a pressure vessel that was purchased and imported into Australia without any consideration given to registration. Its not something I'd ever willingly tackle again!

[Capernicus]

The pressure vessel you linked has a table with a column labelled bar.
Presuming this is it's maximum, the value of 8 equates to 116psi

Thanks for spotting - I bet it can take way more than 100psi, that's a very careful max for a steel container,  a pepsi bottle can take 100psi.

With the oxygen, thanks for all the advice,  Ill definitely do some more research before I go for 2000psi.   (100psi should be safe tho. even for oxygen.)

So I best be careful when I do this.  I'm not even sure its going to work,  I pretty much know it works for Co2,  so I'm just generalizing the idea to oxygen.

[bdunham7]

So what could cause it to rupture and explode?

is there a vid of a 4litre bottle at 2000psi going off,  I wonder how big the explosion would be.

Simply contaminating the threads of an oxygen valve or regulator can do it.   A 4 liter bottle at 2000psi would be more than enough to splatter your brains on the ceiling. 

[Capernicus]

So what could cause it to rupture and explode?

is there a vid of a 4litre bottle at 2000psi going off,  I wonder how big the explosion would be.

Simply contaminating the threads of an oxygen valve or regulator can do it.   A 4 liter bottle at 2000psi would be more than enough to splatter your brains on the ceiling.

I AM LISTENING.   I'm going to call it off for more research time on all the pit falls, especially for oxygen, for sure.   

I need to do this tho, or I'm basicly getting nowhere.
a 4liter bottle at only 100psi has got to be safe tho?   Even that "drinks dispenser" goes up to that much on the dial, even tho I know its only co2 that goes into that thing.

[Capernicus]

I could actually drop the volume to 200ml.

because I just have to support the mould + a little condenser volume next to to it for the water to evaporate/wick out to.

So it could be less than 4litres easily,  so maybe I should do that.

Once the rock has all the water removed from it,  it should be hardened by then.    u slow down the evaporation to get it to the time duration you want.


The amount of air im compressing in for that. (and only getting the oxygen not the nitrogen) would only occupy a half metre cube of ordinary air,   so if i keep the volume down its probably nowhere near as dangerous.

[LaserSteve]

100 psi from a fractured pressure vessel can inflate your arm like a balloon.  Didnt get to see that one but heard about it from the inflatee.

Our.stainless  Sol-gel reaction vessel at work has at least 25 mm walls, volume of say 10 L, weights around 350 pounds, has a hydraulic jack to lift its lid, copper seals, and 12 grade eight bolts to hold the lid on.
Manual calls for a torque wrench to a specific torque or safety ratings are void.

The pump can deliver up to 5000 psi Co2 on that system.

No rubber or plastics  anywhere in the system.  Lots of warnings in the manual about purging the gas fill to avoid various problems including autocatalytic reactions.

 Something else to think about, if your supersolvent will dissolve a ceramic precursor, what will it do to a rubber seal?



Steve

[Capernicus]

100 psi from a fractured pressure vessel can inflate your arm like a balloon.  Didnt get to see that one but heard about it from the inflatee.

Our.stainless  Sol-gel reaction vessel at work has at least 25 mm walls, volume of say 10 L, weights around 350 pounds, has a hydraulic jack to lift its lid, copper seals, and 12 grade eight bolts to hold the lid on.
Manual calls for a torque wrench to a specific torque or safety ratings are void.

The pump can deliver up to 5000 psi Co2 on that system.

No rubber or plastics  anywhere in the system.  Lots of warnings in the manual about purging the gas fill to avoid various problems including autocatalytic reactions.

 Something else to think about, if your supersolvent will dissolve a ceramic precursor, what will it do to a rubber seal?



Steve

If I keep my system to 200ml, at 2000psi,  its ~50 times less force than your system has to take at 10litres.  (PxV) maybe doing things low volume is alot less catastrophic.

the "Super solvent" which I don't know is going to work,  is just pressurized oxygen inside the ceramic mud slurry inside the mould cavity, which is to be pressurized. (which is kept 2 degrees, for more gas dissolution.)   Since Ive just worked out from what you guys said to me,  that oxygen is alot more dangerous than co2, maybe the base it makes is also more concentrated at an equal pressure,  co2 only makes a dibasic acid,  oxygen might not be as diluted when mixed with water.

Plastic is safe from acid and bases no matter how concentrated they are - thats what I thought.    Its rocks + metal that get affected by acid+base, not plastic+rubber?


So do you know alot about oxides?  Sol-Gel I never heard of that before...     I just want to make ordinary magnesium oxide,    Now Im starting to think with 2000 psi, maybe it literally just squishes the water out of it,  and it only takes 30 seconds, and I was thinking I need to leave it in there for a month under pressure.

And I dont know.  I should definitely do it low pressure first, to see what happens.   Then increasing the pressure may have an effect that it literally dries it by squeezing the water out of it mechanically!!!

[Capernicus]

What if I dig a big hole and operate it under the ground?  That might be safer. 

[newbrain]

What if I dig a big hole and operate it under the ground?  That might be safer. 

Six feet under would be perfect.

I'm starting to suspect you are trolling and getting a good laugh out of well meaning persons.
If you are not, please desist.

[Gyro]

I can't tell if you're a troll or just this dumb..

Looking at the OP's YouTube channel, I think you'll need to wait for him to come down from whatever he's smoking before he will be in any state to take warnings seriously.

EDIT: Deleted link, not giving his sick views the light of day (see reply #83)

I initially thought he was a young kid but...no.

[Capernicus]

Nope I'm being perfectly serious, I am not wasting your time.

If it happens to be too dangerous to post here because in general you don't want ppl doing it at random thats ok by me.

Getting a pressure vessel, and using it somewhat dug in the ground probably isn't a bad idea if u can do it that way.  It would muffle any castastrophic explosion, if it ends up happening.

So I am going to very careful when I do this,  I'm actually going to to leave it a bit before I do it,  bit of post-ponement... need to collect more info.

[pardo-bsso]

Some things to consider:

- everything burns in presence of oxygen, steel included.
- oil contamination, even if small, will make the rest of your life difficult.
- oxygen, even at "low" pressure explodes. Think more like a grenade and not a balloon
- we have strict standards on pressure vessels for a good reason (people dying if ignored mostly)
- for reference, I have a 3 cubic meter tube for welding that is rated at 2500psi. When empty it weighs 30kg / ~60pounds. And it's not "big" by any means.

Also, please setup a livestream of your experiments so we can later use those as a teaching aid to avoid accidents.

[Monkeh]

I can't tell if you're a troll or just this dumb..

Looking at the OP's YouTube channel, I think you'll need to wait for him to come down from whatever he's smoking before he will be in any state to take warnings seriously.

Raving loony link deleted

I initially thought he was a young kid but...no.

Err...

On second thought perhaps we should let nature run its course here.