harmful Radio waves ... suddenly no one talk about it

[hamdi.tn]

After everyone is talking and making something connected to this and connected to that, lamp , door bell , baby monitor , connected bed to check if you sleep well, am waiting for the connected toilet seat to check if your poop is OK. anyway that's not the question, that just me  . The point is some years ago, everyone is talking about the potentiel harm that maybe caused to brain cell by electromagnetic waves BUT how everyone is OK now with a home basically with multiple source of EMW.

Note : the question here is not if they are harmful or not, more ppl clearly have brain damage now than before    but still not proved to be related to those gadget as i know, the question is more about consumer behavior.

[amyk]

There's still a minority, which is why those snake-oil "electromagnetic blanket" sellers are still around, but I think most people have finally realised that low-power RF is not going to hurt them.

[calexanian]

Snake oil get few repeat customers.

[Richard Crowley]

"Harmful radio waves" .... suddenly we have discovered that there is nothing to talk about.   

[tggzzz]

There is an easy answer to this question. It is simply that modern tinfoil hats are much more effective than the first generation tinfoil hats.

In addition, modern hearing aids are no longer susceptible. I once made myself rather unpopular at work by demonstration how RF radiation could plausibly seriously harm infants...

Grandparent is holding their newborn grandchild. Child is dropped onto the floor when  someone's walks past. Why? Grandparent has deafaids, and when someone with an 1800MHz  cellphone walks past they are startled by a sudden very loud noise in their ear - and the startle reflex causes them to drop the child.

[Brumby]

There's still a minority, which is why those snake-oil "electromagnetic blanket" sellers are still around, but I think most people have finally realised that low-power RF is not going to hurt them.

I certainly don't run screaming at the thought of RF fields - but I would have concerns about standing next to the radiating element of a 100kW radio transmitter or the pulsed beam of a high powered radar.

My question is: When considering safety in EM fields - what is the threshold?

[JimRemington]

My wife's dad was in the Navy around 1945, and he described how he and other sailors would sometimes stand in front of the radar dishes to warm up.

He deeply regretted that he never thought of inventing the microwave oven

[Syntax_Error]

There's still a minority, which is why those snake-oil "electromagnetic blanket" sellers are still around, but I think most people have finally realised that low-power RF is not going to hurt them.

I certainly don't run screaming at the thought of RF fields - but I would have concerns about standing next to the radiating element of a 100kW radio transmitter or the pulsed beam of a high powered radar.

My question is: When considering safety in EM fields - what is the threshold?

Search for maximum permissible exposure and specific absorption rate. These topics give a good introduction to RF exposure limits and how it relates to field strength and frequency, and the variables that go into determining those two derived variables. Very interesting reading. The TLDR version is that RF and microwaves are nonionizing radiation, so exposure risk comes down to energy absorption and heating value. Since different frequencies are absorbed to different degrees by the human body, there is no one singular limit; it varies with frequency. Also, duty cycle during an operating period and average power during transmission determine average field strength and dosage over time (along with distance and shielding).

It may seem complicated, but the good news is that RF safety is taken quite seriously by governmental types, and laws are in place that require standoffs such as fencing and signs to ensure public safety from powerful transmitters. Your mobile phone or WIFI router pose no dangers to you, nor does your microwave oven as long as you don't defeat its safety features.

[ADC-1995]

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/radiofrequencyradiation/healtheffects.html

[miguelvp]

When my dad was on the U.S. air force as a technician stationed in Spain, they used to light up fluorescent  lights below the radar transmitters to impress the girls. I guess my mom being one of those.

Very stupid, yes, but at least not harmful enough for me to be conceived afterwards and after over 50 years I think I didn't have any adverse effects from the radiation.

I think the genetically engineered crops we eat often now a days are way more harmful. But that's just a feeling more than reality.

Good form/color but bad nutrition/taste.

Still, I wouldn't want to live near a big power line.

[Seekonk]

Energy should always be respected.  Tower technicians are required to wear energy monitors.  There are studies that bees die near cell phone towers.  There is a rise in breast cancer among women that stick a cell phone in their bra.  The responses show an ignorance of energy.  I knew a guy that used to wash his hands in used PCB transformer oil.  He said it was the best degreaser ever.  That doesn't mean you should do it.

[Mechanical Menace]

There are studies that bees die near cell phone towers.

No there aren't. The one 2009 Swiss study that woo salesmen claim showed that showed they reacted to ringing phones next to the hive by getting pissed off. There was no connection shown beyond that, and nothing to show any harm beyond bees finding them as annoying as many people do.

There is a rise in breast cancer among women that stick a cell phone in their bra.

No there isn't. It's an urban myth. One woman who got breast cancer unfortunately young carrying her phone in her bra and (probably understandably) needed to blame something so blamed that isn't a rise in breast cancer amongst women that stick a phone in their bras. No studies have corroborated that claim but yet a cancer victims desperate grasping at straws still made international news with her claim presented as irrefutable fact. More women are getting breast cancer full stop, where they keep their phones seems to have no effect on that.

[tggzzz]

Energy should always be respected.

Yes. So should science.

There are studies that bees die near cell phone towers.

Correlation (if there is any) is not causation. After all bigger shoe size => better spelling ability.

There is a rise in breast cancer among women that stick a cell phone in their bra. 

Reference please. Ensure it contains sufficient information that we can assess its validity.

Anecdotes will be ignored.

[German_EE]

All the information you need, your tax dollars at work.

http://www.fcc.gov/oet/rfsafety/rf-faqs.html

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/radio-frequency-safety

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet56/oet56e4.pdf

[VK5RC]

Re Bra phone transport and breast cancer, clearly there will be an association, as the woman is frequently doing breast self examination!  There was, for a brief period of time, an association (NOT causal ) with breast trauma and cancer from precisely the same issue.

Causality is best determined by
1. Randomised Intervention study, preferably double blind, NOT a cross sectional study.
2. Demonstration of a dose response curve/association

High power RF is good at cooking things, intended or not. My homebrew EME 1296MHz transmitter puts out about 400W, I am careful but not paranoid.

[hamdi.tn]

There's still a minority, which is why those snake-oil "electromagnetic blanket" sellers are still around, but I think most people have finally realised that low-power RF is not going to hurt them.

I certainly don't run screaming at the thought of RF fields - but I would have concerns about standing next to the radiating element of a 100kW radio transmitter or the pulsed beam of a high powered radar.

My question is: When considering safety in EM fields - what is the threshold?

good question , and how much appliance connected at the same time in order to not hit that limit.
But still i think most ppl now accept the risk of RF waves in order to get that extra bit of confort. it's like the car or a plane, everyone accept the risk of accident or crash in order to get that confort.

[hamdi.tn]

Energy should always be respected.  Tower technicians are required to wear energy monitors.  There are studies that bees die near cell phone towers.  There is a rise in breast cancer among women that stick a cell phone in their bra.  The responses show an ignorance of energy.  I knew a guy that used to wash his hands in used PCB transformer oil.  He said it was the best degreaser ever.  That doesn't mean you should do it.

those study as old as the cell phone it self, still the coincidence of two phenomena doesn't mean a cause-effect relation.

[Seekonk]

No, it doesn't.  I grew plants with ultrasonic sound.  Certainly a half watt couldn't do anything, but it did cause major changes.  Are you saying the suns radiation doesn't cause some cancers? Millions and millions of cells reproduce.  Only an unimaginably small percentage have errors.  Chemicals and energy change these statistics and it doesn't take much.  In the end we are all a statistic.  The government has set limits for radiation.  Let's face it, many people would rather die than be without their cell phone.  Mankind doesn't have to worry about Terminators in the future.  We have met the enemy and it is us.  It isn't even sport to continue this conversation with you.

[hamdi.tn]

Mankind doesn't have to worry about Terminators in the future.

i can agree on that 

[Seekonk]

Being out of the current news cycle doesn't mean that the science is in on radiation.

[MrSlack]

I used to work inside a large metal box with microwave radar equipment. As did many people I worked with and they'd been in there for 40+ years. We're all still here.

A couple of guys accidentally left a body part in front of a waveguide/funnel and ended up with a neat toasted square on themselves and a nice bacon smell but that was about it. That heals up nicely after a couple of weeks.

YMMV but meh.

Shit that scares me is big lathes. One slip up and your torso is gone in 2 seconds flat.

[VK5RC]

@MrSlack, agree+++ that and the power take off on a tractor, the irresistible force.

[MrSlack]

Definitely. I grew up in the sticks on farms. In the Deere manuals there's this graphic that always made me laugh about that:

[Richard Head]

There is a rise in breast cancer among women that stick a cell phone in their bra.

Hmm. I wonder if the rise in cervical cancer is related?

[tszaboo]

am waiting for the connected toilet seat to check if your poop is OK.

Me too, it is surprising, how many illness can be detected just by analyzing poo and wee.
But think about the implications of smart connected devices. They work from batteries, and they dont need to be recharged every day, like phones. They have like a CR2032 and work years from it, or maybe AA and half a year.
Your laptop or phone will generate orders of magnitude more RF.
So, i'm not worried.