Grumpy rant #783

[TimFox]

Even so, the power capability of even the C13/C14 series is better than any of the flimsy ideas that our original poster has suggested.

[coppice]

30 year ago the C13/C14 was getting really popular for power distribution around a bunch of low power devices, like computer bits and pieces. Now it seems much rarer. I wonder why it lost favour?

[coppice]

The only place we have used them is the traditional kettle plug (before the advent of bases), hence they are often still called kettle leads over here. Those are the 10A 'hot condition' variant.

kettles are supposed to use  c15/16,with a slot/pin, to stop you using a normal c13

They are supposed to use C15/C16, and in the past they did. Now most kettles don't have the key to stop you inserting a low current lead.

[themadhippy]

inserting a low current lead

Its not the current  capacity ,c13/14's  also come in 10A flavours, but the temperature rating. And if c15/16 aint hot enough theres the 15a/c16a.

[Ranayna]

30 year ago the C13/C14 was getting really popular for power distribution around a bunch of low power devices, like computer bits and pieces. Now it seems much rarer. I wonder why it lost favour?

Im working in IT and datacenter.
Yes, it has gotten a bit rarer, but not much though. It is more related to the fact that in the client area, desktop pcs have become rare. Laptop power supplies mostly use C5, since C13 is deemed too bulky and the power capacity of C13 is not needed.
Networking gear and servers are going into the other direction. Often enough, high powered servers come with C19 plugs, since C13 reaches its limit. And some networking gear now takes C15 because that gear can apparently reach surprising temperatures.

[mikerj]

Brits love to think their electrical plugs are the best in the world.
No, they are not. Most plugs are not unsafe whatsoever. They are simply less stupidly overdesigned.

There is a difference between unsafe and being a flimsy POS.

[coppice]

30 year ago the C13/C14 was getting really popular for power distribution around a bunch of low power devices, like computer bits and pieces. Now it seems much rarer. I wonder why it lost favour?

Im working in IT and datacenter.
Yes, it has gotten a bit rarer, but not much though. It is more related to the fact that in the client area, desktop pcs have become rare. Laptop power supplies mostly use C5, since C13 is deemed too bulky and the power capacity of C13 is not needed.
Networking gear and servers are going into the other direction. Often enough, high powered servers come with C19 plugs, since C13 reaches its limit. And some networking gear now takes C15 because that gear can apparently reach surprising temperatures.

Yep, there are still plenty of C13/C14 power strips with 19" rack mounting lugs at the ends. Its the free roaming ones that used to have PC, monitor, printer, modem, et all plugged into them that have almost disappeared. PC power supplies lost an output for the monitor for no obvious reason, requiring at least 2 sockets for a basic PC to function.

[themadhippy]

PC power supplies lost an output for the monitor for no obvious reason, requiring at least 2 sockets for a basic PC to function.

It saves them £0.01 per psu? or maybe as power supply's got bigger the extra current for the monitor was to much for them to handle,especially in 110 land.

[coppice]

PC power supplies lost an output for the monitor for no obvious reason, requiring at least 2 sockets for a basic PC to function.

It saves them £0.01 per psu? or maybe as power supply's got bigger the extra current for the monitor was to much for them to handle,especially in 110 land.

The high output gamer supplies have limited space, but supplies in most office desktop machines have a low output supply with lots of space. When you look at the Dells and HPs of the world, selling desktops in volume to businesses, they have to bear the entire cost of what plugs into the wall. What monitor takes enough to add significant load to the lead into the supply? They dropped switching of power to the monitor when the supplies changed to soft switching, but the complete elimination of the power outlet came a bit later.

[Connecteur]

A better team of engineers could have designed a safer plug without making it a monstrosity.

[TimFox]

Feel free to sell one of your design on the open market for retrofit.

[coppice]

A better team of engineers could have designed a safer plug without making it a monstrosity.

Engineers have little to do with it. Regulations drive everything. The regulations in most countries have required that appliances be supplied with a plug for many decades. Some countries are pretty loose about which plug they should have, but they need a plug. For some quirky historic reason the UK is one of very few countries where a plug was not mandated. It costs money, so it was rarely fitted. So, the designers of the plug had to design something primarily for simple hand assembly by the average pleb. Only in the 80s did it start to become a competitive advantage to sell things with a fitted plug. If they had started from the position of designing something primarily for high volume moulded on applications, with a somewhat bulkier option for people needing to hand assemble a plug for one offs, I expect they would have designed something a little sleeker. However, this was not a part of their design mandate. Even a plug designed for moulded on applications would not have been that small. Unfused plugs are a lousy choice when so many appliance cords are not rated for anything like the breaker in the consumer unit. That fuse needs space that most mains plugs around the world dodge, by dodging safety issues. To a large extent we in the UK also dodge this issue, which is sad. How many UK plugs on thin cords for low consumption appliances are actually fitted with a 3A fuse?

A modern moulded on British plug isn't that much different in size from a European or Chinese/Australian 3 pin plug.  The greatest meaningful criticism I can see is they never allowed for a compact 2 pin plug which was compatible. On the other hand, most of the places that was an annoyance, like taking a mains powered razor on your travels, have become irrelevant due tot he growth of battery powered products.

[TimFox]

Are there any other current examples where the plug was intended to hold the fuse?
Obviously, this increases the physical size of the plug.

[themadhippy]

That fuse needs space that most mains plugs around the world dodge,

if they'd stuck with round pins  the fuse could have gone in the live pin,as  was done by the odd manufacturer ,but then again 15A unfused plugs are about the same size as the 13A

[Connecteur]

Regulations didn't specify that the plug should be big, ugly and awkward.  I'm sure several proposals were made by different parties.  Unfortunately this one was accepted, probably under the belief that "all gain requires pain."

[TimFox]

Nonsense.  Regulations specify the physical dimensions of the interface, from which other dimensions follow.

[PlainName]

Regulations didn't specify that the plug should be big, ugly and awkward.  I'm sure several proposals were made by different parties.  Unfortunately this one was accepted, probably under the belief that "all gain requires pain."

Perhaps it would save a lot of time and slurs if you could show an example of either what you think is a well-designed plug or your own design for a good plug. Doesn't need to be production-ready CAD - a sketch will be fine if it shows the idea clearly.

[coppice]

That fuse needs space that most mains plugs around the world dodge,

if they'd stuck with round pins  the fuse could have gone in the live pin,as  was done by the odd manufacturer ,but then again 15A unfused plugs are about the same size as the 13A

I think they purposefully moved from round pins in the old British plugs to rectangular ones for a more reliable high current connection.

[themadhippy]

I think they purposefully moved from round pins in the old British plugs to rectangular ones for a more reliable high current connection.

ceeforms and  powerlocks seem to manage ok being round , more likley to avoid unfused plugs being  used the newfangled ring,or to sell more plugs

[coppice]

I think they purposefully moved from round pins in the old British plugs to rectangular ones for a more reliable high current connection.

ceeforms and  powerlocks seem to manage ok being round , more likley to avoid unfused plugs being  used the newfangled ring,or to sell more plugs

I used the old British plugs a lot in my childhood, and more recently in India. I'm pretty sure there is a contact quality reason for choosing a flat contact surface. The smaller 5A plug isn't too bad, but the bigger 15A can be iffy. Interestingly you can find those plugs with part plastic sheathed pins, in the style of the more recent 13A plugs. I've never seen them in use, though. Military connector designers love using round pins, but they go for elaborate contact arrangement you couldn't afford to put in cheap household goods.

[TimFox]

Flat contact surfaces can be used with leaf springs, but it is hard to get a good contact all around a cylindrical pin.

[themadhippy]

Interestingly you can find those plugs with part plastic sheathed pins, in the style of the more recent 13A plugs. I've never seen them in use, though.

Theatre  is about the last bastion for them in the uk, used for for dimmer circuits.Reason being is theres only 1 fuse on the circuit instead of 3 or 4,and most of  those plugs might be 30 foot in the air.

[TimFox]

I have also seen them with photographic "hot lights" using halogen tungsten bulbs (including long narrow ones).

[coppice]

Interestingly you can find those plugs with part plastic sheathed pins, in the style of the more recent 13A plugs. I've never seen them in use, though.

Theatre  is about the last bastion for them in the uk, used for for dimmer circuits.Reason being is theres only 1 fuse on the circuit instead of 3 or 4,and most of  those plugs might be 30 foot in the air.

Ah, that's where they are used. I've seen various pictures of them with shrouded pins, but I've never seen them used in India, which is now the main market for these plugs.

[Gyro]

Regulations didn't specify that the plug should be big, ugly and awkward.  I'm sure several proposals were made by different parties.  Unfortunately this one was accepted, probably under the belief that "all gain requires pain."

What IS your problem?   The plug extends 20mm (some less) from the surface of the socket, with no additional cable projection - that makes it more compact in the dimension that matters compared to most other plugs in Europe and the US and more compact in general, when inserted, than any other 3 conductor plug of similar voltage and current rating that comes to mind.

The BS1363 UK plug isn't over-designed, isn't excessively big of awkward. Please indicate and post an image of what you consider to be a smaller, less awkward and more attractive equivalently rated plug if you don't want to be treated as a troll.