Germanwings flight 4u9525 CVR.

[Richard Crowley]

Yup, Hitler had the right idea. 

Yup, things are black or white.  No room for a sensible continuum here.

[PeterFW]

What do you think would passengers and crew do if they would have to endure radioactive showers from the flight recorders during the time of a flight?

They allready get a "radioactive shower" during flight... i might be totally of since i do not want to ask google to confirm but iirc a stuitable lengh flight delivers the same dose as an xray. Not including the dose from the body scanner at the airport if they have one.

[elgonzo]

What do you think would passengers and crew do if they would have to endure radioactive showers from the flight recorders during the time of a flight?

They allready get a "radioactive shower" during flight... i might be totally of since i do not want to ask google to confirm but iirc a stuitable lengh flight delivers the same dose as an xray. Not including the dose from the body scanner at the airport if they have one.

Yes, they do. Tell them that and then ask them what they would think about adding some more gamma radiation on top of that...

[dannyf]

i might be totally of

There is some value in that. Some trace amount of radioactive materials would make locating the device in a land crash quite helpful.

[elgonzo]

i might be totally of

There is some value in that. Some trace amount of radioactive materials would make locating the device in a land crash quite helpful.

You know, you could just also use a good old-fashioned metal detector. Not only less dangerous (because no hazardous materials involved), but also better chance of success unless you choose some big "trace" amount of radiation that is able to penetrate layers of (moist) soil or something similar...

[cosmicray]

Some flight data, compiled from flightradar24.com.

I've seen the "set autopilot to 100 ft" a couple of times in this thread and I wonder where does this information come from?

The ADS-B squitter is emitting enhanced information (on some so equipped aircraft). This was first noticed by one of the web sites, that tracks aircraft movements. thru a cooperative network of ADS-B receivers. They had the data, but did not know to even look at it until the crash occurred. Then they discovered that the settings on the airbus had been deliberately changed. Once they saw that, they notified LH of the data.

[pickle9000]

Some flight data, compiled from flightradar24.com.

I've seen the "set autopilot to 100 ft" a couple of times in this thread and I wonder where does this information come from?

The ADS-B squitter is emitting enhanced information (on some so equipped aircraft). This was first noticed by one of the web sites, that tracks aircraft movements. thru a cooperative network of ADS-B receivers. They had the data, but did not know to even look at it until the crash occurred. Then they discovered that the settings on the airbus had been deliberately changed. Once they saw that, they notified LH of the data.

I wonder if they will ever bounce back information like that automatically to air traffic control? Of course then you'd have to decide what information is important. Cabin pressure, fire alarm would be easy enough though.

[cosmicray]

Some flight data, compiled from flightradar24.com.

I've seen the "set autopilot to 100 ft" a couple of times in this thread and I wonder where does this information come from?

The ADS-B squitter is emitting enhanced information (on some so equipped aircraft). This was first noticed by one of the web sites, that tracks aircraft movements. thru a cooperative network of ADS-B receivers. They had the data, but did not know to even look at it until the crash occurred. Then they discovered that the settings on the airbus had been deliberately changed. Once they saw that, they notified LH of the data.

I wonder if they will ever bounce back information like that automatically to air traffic control? Of course then you'd have to decide what information is important. Cabin pressure, fire alarm would be easy enough though.

In this case, the data is sent so that air-traffic control can note that an aircraft is about to change flight levels, and if moving to a non-approved level, they can query the crew about intentions (and/or alert other aircraft of a potential problem).

[Kjelt]

How about a UV fluorescent paint bomb that is discharged one minute after the crash.
At night you can detect it easily with uv from a chopper

[SeanB]

How about a UV fluorescent paint bomb that is discharged one minute after the crash.
At might you can detect it easily with uv from a chopper

Just have the heavy glass bottle there, it will disperse itself. Most accidents if you find the wreckage you will eventually find those recorders, there have been very few where they were totally destroyed, but quite a few where the recorders were inoperative either from failure during flight or even from having failed a while ago. They are not considered as flight critical systems.

BTW the engine management units also have some data storage, which might also be readable. You might have to decap the chips and use a probe station to read them though.

[elgonzo]

BTW the engine management units also have some data storage, which might also be readable. You might have to decap the chips and use a probe station to read them though.

Nah, you don't need to decap and probe the silicon when you want to readout the NVM of an aircraft component. If you don't already have the information of (A) where NVM is located inside the device or (B) how to read out the NVM, you simply request this information from the manufacturer of the respective device. Remember, "you" are an authority responsible for (safety) investigations of aviation incidents...

[SeanB]

ECM parts do not have to survive the crash intact, though as they typically are in the engine nacelle and break off first they often do survive the ensuing fire. The decap is because typically you get parts of PCB's only, slightly twisted and mangled. the chips themselves do survive in many cases, just not in an intact and plug in and read manner.

[Wytnucls]

Most accidents if you find the wreckage you will eventually find those recorders, there have been very few where they were totally destroyed, but quite a few where the recorders were inoperative either from failure during flight or even from having failed a while ago. They are not considered as flight critical systems.

Nowadays, either the DFDR or the CVR has to be operating normally before flight and the faulty unit has to be repaired within 25 flight hours.

[elgonzo]

ECM parts do not have to survive the crash intact, though as they typically are in the engine nacelle and break off first they often do survive the ensuing fire. The decap is because typically you get parts of PCB's only, slightly twisted and mangled. the chips themselves do survive in many cases, just not in an intact and plug in and read manner.

Ah, yes. I was forgetting that the chip packages or their leads/pads could be broken due to mechanical forces occuring during impact... Doh!