Function Generator purchase

[Wmacky]

looking for a new function generator, and i'd like either a used HP/Agilent 33120A or a Rigol DG1022. They both are sharp looking units!

The rigol has better specs, more features, and  is new with a warranty.

The HP is, well.... a HP! But, is lower speced, used, risky, could arrive broken, or break a week latter. Repair at HP would probally be prohibtively expensive.

Pricing is about equal at $550 or so.

What say you?

[Andrew]

I happen to have a DG1022 - I have written about it here a few times, so the following probably gets boring.

In short, the DG1022 is the reason why Rigol is on my "don't want" list now.

A key feature of an arbitrary function generator is to load arbitrary waveform definitions into it and let the generator replay it, right? You can hardly do that via the front panel. To enter the 4k points for a waveform you would have to press buttons ten thousand times. Ok, the DG1022 comes with a PC software to define and then load waveform data into the generator. So everything is fine? Well ...

The software (UltraWave) they show you in their advertising only works for Windows XP. You can't install it on Vista or Win 7. The interesting catch here is the DG1022 was released long after Vista was released. Rigol has now had almost two years to port the software to Vista / Win 7, but they didn't.

What they did is to claim they (a) have changed the hardware, and (b) that only for the new hardware they now (since end Jan 2010) offer National Instruments VISA based software. New hardware runs with firmware 00.02.xx.xx.xx. Old one with 00.01.xx.xx.xx.

"Old" hardware means hardware released just a tad over a year ago. So just after a year Rigol left owners of DG1022 completely in the cold. They apparently never seriously tried to deliver what their customers paid for.

When you buy a DG1022 you can't distinguish in advance if you get a 00.01 or 00.02 version. Unlike the DG2000 and DG3000 series, where they now attached an A to the numbers (DG2000A, DG3000A) to indicate a new hardware revision, they don't do that for the DG1022.

Now, are at least owners of 00.02 hardware in the clear? Not exactly. Rigol released a package with the VISA-based software. I had a look at it. It doesn't install for me. It is supposed to contain National Instruments VISA drivers (it does), and some new kind or version of the UltraWave arbitrary waveform data program. This mystery version of the waveform program is missing in action, the installer aborts right at the start, complaining about missing installation files.

Let me spend a few words on Rigol support.  Abysmally bad.  Incredibly abysmally bad. For a vendor that wants to play on the same level as the big guys like HP, Tek and the like it is a joke. Getting information out of them is like pulling teeth. Never is information volunteered. Never is the background honestly explained, never a straight answer. Never in my whole dealings with their support did I get the feeling they care or they at least actively work on a solution. Never did I manage to get to talk to someone with the power to do something, give an honest answer or at least forward my feedback to the responsible decision makers.

You also might want to consider that it appears that Rigol is currently working to artificially inflate prices. Not long ago almost all Rigol offers disappeared from eBay. Word is this happened on behalf of Rigol or some authorized seller who complained about sellers from China undercutting "official" prices. Recently I pointed to a document, allegedly from Rigol, where Rigol, in their infinite power, declared direct selling from China to users in Europe illegal. So the eBay thing does not look like an accident.

I am currently considering replacing the DG1022 with a Hantek DDS-3X25.   IMHO the DDS-3X25 play in a much lower league then the Rigol. Less features, IMHO less quality. It is what I call throw-away hardware. But my argument here is I can pay $700 for a Rigol and not get a usable arbitrary function generation feature, or I can pay $150 for a Hantek generator with a lifetime of maybe three years, but where I can use the function generation today. And when (not if, when) the DDS-3X25 manufacturer stops software support I just buy the next generation hardware.

[Wmacky]

This is a real shame. I too have had issues. I have send them 2 emails regarding my new 1102E last month. They never responded! Not even a forum letter. BTW, there is a new US distributer for us in the states, that has posted on another forum that they are handling all US support, and sevice.
Anyway, perhaps a used HP is the way forward, as there seems to be no new alternative to the Rigol for that price.

[Andrew]

Rigol uses service@... as their support address, not the usual support@... I got caught by that initially.  I think I always got a response when sending to service@... Not a meaningful response, but a response.

[Wmacky]

No, i'm using service, but never got any response

[Smoking]

Check this 20MHz ATTEN function generator. Nice price too
http://www.atten.eu/function-generators.html

[tecman]

HP/Agilent is a far better unit

paul

[Chasm]

HP/Agilent is a far better unit

paul

Unless it comes as option in a scope.

[saturation]

Good FG cost money, but if you search on my name I've put some scattered reviews at least:

For quality signals, the Instek SFG1003.
For basic arb capability and wider range [usable to 75 MHz, flat to 20 MHz], the Hantek 3x25.
~ $160 each.

A lower cost new Instek DDS FG to 20 MHz is in the $400-500 range, about 1.5x more that the 2 separate devices above.  No arb.

For comparison, check out a similar spec'd HP/Agilent, including used on eBay.  New, at least 5-10x that of the Instek, then compare specs.

[flolic]

Just a little update on this old thread.
I bought DG1022 few days ago despite bad critics, and so far I am very happy with it.

Ultrawave editing software installs without problems on my two computers, notebook with XP Pro
and Win7 64 bit.

Firmware version is 00.02.00.06.00.02.07

The key to successful install is to rename installation folder! When you extract that downloaded .rar ( UltraWave(PC)update.rar )
files are extracted into folder named " Ultrawave??? ".

You need to erase those chinese characters after "Ultrawave" because English installation of Windows obviously become confused by them.

I hope this helps  

EDIT: this forum can not display Chinese characters, they are represented with those question marks

[saturation]

Great.  Can you generate any waveform without interruptions or bugs, just straight from the front panel, not with the software?

Just a little update on this old thread.
I bought DG1022 few days ago despite bad critics, and so far I am very happy with it.

Ultrawave editing software installs without problems on my two computers, notebook with XP Pro
and Win7 64 bit.

Firmware version is 00.02.00.06.00.02.07

The key to successful install is to rename installation folder! When you extract that downloaded .rar ( UltraWave(PC)update.rar )
files are extracted into folder named " Ultrawave??? ".

You need to erase those chinese characters after "Ultrawave" because English installation of Windows obviously become confused by them.

I hope this helps 

EDIT: this forum can not display Chinese characters, they are represented with those question marks

[flolic]

You mean to arange arbitrary waveform from the front panel? I don't know. I never try to do that and I believe that to be extremely user unfriendly.

[Thomas]

There is no efficient way of entering a few thousand points of a waveform through a front panel.
This makes the software for such an instrument much more important than for other instruments like multimeters and power supplies, for example.
If the software is bad, you are stuck with an expensive function generator

[Hideki]

I have the DG1022 and I don't use the provided software at all. I don't understand why some people criticize the Rigol so severely because the software sucks or doesn't work for them.
Yes, it would be better if the device came with awesome software, but it's not like it turns into a paperweight without the waveform editing capability.

If you're able to write very simple programs, in almost any language, then waveforms can be easily be generated or converted to a format that the generator can read.

A waveform (RDF file) is after all just 4096 16-bit values, ranging from 0 to 16383 (0 to 1023 for channel 2).

I see it as a non-problem. Others think it's the end of the world

[Bored@Work]

If you're able to write very simple programs, in almost any language, then waveforms can be easily be generated or converted to a format that the generator can read.

A waveform (RDF file) is after all just 4096 16-bit values, ranging from 0 to 16383 (0 to 1023 for channel 2).

I see it as a non-problem. Others think it's the end of the world

You think it is OK to pay $500 for what then essentially turns into a DIY project so you can make full use of your $500? Also don't forget that reverse engineering stuff like the RDF format is illegal in some countries. So you think it is OK to pay $500 and then having to break some law to make use of it?

And do you think it is OK that Rigol takes your money and then tells you absolutely nothing about the file format? For example that the RDF format doesn't contain the the sampling frequency, the DC offset of the waveform, or in fact any indication about the output amplitude. You think it is OK that you need to write another file, RSF, for that? And that an RSF file is protected by a checksum, using an unknown checksum algorithm at an (well, not so) unknown location in the RSF file? (ok, the checksum is at 1f4, good luck finding the algorithm).

And again, Rigol sitting there with their thumbs up their arse, telling you nothing about it? If you value your time at $0/hour and want to do a DIY project, fine. If you need a usable ARB generator instead, and your time doesn't come for free (e.g. you need to answer your boss about it), then the DG1022 is just a useless PoS. Because Rigol doesn't deliver it in a fully ready to use condition.

[Hideki]

You think it is OK to pay $500 for what then essentially turns into a DIY project so you can make full use of your $500? Also don't forget that reverse engineering stuff like the RDF format is illegal in some countries. So you think it is OK to pay $500 and then having to break some law to make use of it?

Mine is just a different point of view, but equally valid. Laws that are "wrong" will be changed in time, and they don't really apply in my country anyway. They most certainly doesn't apply in china, the holy land of reverse engineering and product cloning. Forum user tinhead has given interesting insights into how things are done there.

And do you think it is OK that Rigol takes your money and then tells you absolutely nothing about the file format? For example that the RDF format doesn't contain the the sampling frequency, the DC offset of the waveform, or in fact any indication about the output amplitude. You think it is OK that you need to write another file, RSF, for that? And that an RSF file is protected by a checksum, using an unknown checksum algorithm at an (well, not so) unknown location in the RSF file? (ok, the checksum is at 1f4, good luck finding the algorithm).

Yes, it's ok. It would be great if they knew what support was, but that's the price to pay for dealing with chinese companies in general.

And again, Rigol sitting there with their thumbs up their arse, telling you nothing about it? If you value your time at $0/hour and want to do a DIY project, fine. If you need a usable ARB generator instead, and your time doesn't come for free (e.g. you need to answer your boss about it), then the DG1022 is just a useless PoS. Because Rigol doesn't deliver it in a fully ready to use condition.

So it's not the right product for you. It is however good value for money, for those willing to live with the given limitations.

[saturation]

Alas, not even.  There are reviews or links on eevblog that the 1022 can lockup in just function generator mode.   The Arb is another issue.  Regardless, enjoy your new arb and keep us posted, there have been firmware updates so maybe the bugs are now fixed.

You mean to arange arbitrary waveform from the front panel? I don't know. I never try to do that and I believe that to be extremely user unfriendly.

Yes, when I went looking for a reasonable arb/fg I found this, and mecha's good work has taken it to new heights, it does rival the Rigol for raw performance. It a bang for buck, for $150.  An extensive thread and review is on eevblog:

http://www.google.com/search?q=dd2-3x25&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=dds-3x25&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1280&bih=844&tbs=p_ord:p&tbm=shop&sa=X&ei=1TTJTailJ6Ts0gHa1uiXCQ&ved=0CAoQuw0oAQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=64cfe6251a34cfaa

oou! i spoke too soon. time vs money matter... part of it.

[midnight]

I just purchased the Rigol DG1022 Fn/Arb Waveform Generator and I would like to say it is performing way beyond my expectations.  After reading some of the negative comments, I figured I was going to be writing my own Arb generator software and posting it as open source... but the included 00.01.04 UltraWave software is performing flawlessly.

I am running Windows 7 64bit and was able to create several waveforms with ease and save them to flash... they load flawlessly into the DG1022 and the output is perfect!  I could not ask for anything more.

If anyone is interested in seeing a demo of the DG1022 and the UltraWave software, I am willing to post a video review (after I get over this flu).

Windows 7 64bit
UltraWave ver 00.01.04
Rigol DG1022 ver 2.00.06.00.02.07

[saturation]

This is good to hear.  I for one would like to see your video review.

I just purchased the Rigol DG1022 Fn/Arb Waveform Generator and I would like to say it is performing way beyond my expectations.  After reading some of the negative comments, I figured I was going to be writing my own Arb generator software and posting it as open source... but the included 00.01.04 UltraWave software is performing flawlessly.

I am running Windows 7 64bit and was able to create several waveforms with ease and save them to flash... they load flawlessly into the DG1022 and the output is perfect!  I could not ask for anything more.

If anyone is interested in seeing a demo of the DG1022 and the UltraWave software, I am willing to post a video review (after I get over this flu).

Windows 7 64bit
UltraWave ver 00.01.04
Rigol DG1022 ver 2.00.06.00.02.07

[ngkee22]

I would be interested to know how the Instek 2020 or the 2120 models compare to the Rigol 1022.  I know the Instek don't support arb waves, but I would like to know if Instek is better quality or or not.

[Fender123]

I am trying to transfer a captured waveform from a DS1102D scope to a DG1022 generator, over a USB stick, unsuccessfully. WFM is 'kind of' loaded but nothing happens. Isn't this supposed to work? I would appreciate any comments from any users with ARB experience and similar setup.

[jeffreyprinzie]

For those who cannot run ultrawave:

Do not install the VISA Layer software that is included, go to National Instruments and download the latest VISA software (free).
It is the VISA 4  software that does not run on windows7. The (new) VISA does work. I first got an error that the program could not be started (windows error code xxx). After installing other VISA software the program did his job. I have not tried directly linking the DG1022 using usb. You can however save a .rdf file, copy to a USB flash drive and insert this in your generator.

Hope this will hepl those whose program do not work.

I actually like RIGOL'S measurement equimpent. It is not the same as Agilent and Textronic, but for home use, is provides lots of functions at a cheam price


kr

[Velund]

Just got DG1022U that my friend purchased in Singapore. Yes, DG1022_U_ that is somewhat mentioned in quick start guide but not listed on Rigol website. 25 MHz on a front panel label.

Firmware 00.03.00.08.00.01.02, included CD labeled V02.16 (not yet tried to install software). Paper manual is Chinese.

Still unable to figure out what is difference between A and U model. Does anyone have any ideas?

PS: Installed UltraWave from this CD, it was ver. 01.04...

[smashedProton]

Oh please, just buy a cheap antique hp fun gen.   The waves are just as stable as the mid level digital stuff.  Best money you ever spent.  Look at my HP 3310B!  Its pornographic

[ptricks]

Making a function generator is also a worthy project for beginners.