Free Unlimited Version of AutoTRAX PCB Design Software

[free_electron]

come on guys. it;s only 49$. why are you whining ?

[Lightages]

I know I didn't whine. I already spent the $49!

[Neganur]

How is it whining, I think the comment I made is quite valid. Although I must admit I assumed the software  would not start without a license.
(ofc I want to try the version 6, why would I want to miss out on all the improvements that the forum has suggested)

What's the limitation of the software before I fork out $49?  The website and the software itself were not quite clear about it.
A quick click on 'generate gerber files' with an empty sheet pops up a 'pardon, must have a license' window. So I guess I can still try out most of the thing.

[zapta]

come on guys. it;s only 49$. why are you whining ?

It reduces its appeal significantly for open source projects.

Eagle is still better in this respect.

[ozwolf]

I was happy to pay his $49 USD (+$60 AUS) for version 5, even for my hobbyist (non-commercial) use.  It's worth every penny to me.

Be fair, how much software can you write for $49?

Ozwolf

[free_electron]

come on guys. it;s only 49$. why are you whining ?

It reduces its appeal significantly for open source projects.

this i don't understand. i can perfectly design open source on multimillion dollar software. If i give you the source to it , with 'no strings' attached, then it is open source.
Open source stuff can be perfectly designed using closed source tools.

[Monkeh]

come on guys. it;s only 49$. why are you whining ?

It reduces its appeal significantly for open source projects.

this i don't understand. i can perfectly design open source on multimillion dollar software. If i give you the source to it , with 'no strings' attached, then it is open source.
Open source stuff can be perfectly designed using closed source tools.

But it's kinda pointless if people can't interpret it.

[pickle9000]

So there is a slightly older version that is free. I've never understood the argument that open source needs to be made with open source. In any case it's done all the time.

Having said that Iliya seems to have been very fair. Compare the price to that of getting a single 10cmx10cm board spun. Or the cost of a multimeter or power supply. These are tools we use every day and 50 bucks is a great deal. Even a hobbyist will spend far more than that on gear for the bench, and can use the free version if he or she decides to do so.

[Monkeh]

I've never understood the argument that open source needs to be made with open source. In any case it's done all the time.

That's not the argument being made. The argument being made is that open source is pointless if the source cannot be utilised.

[CatalinaWOW]

The purists who want to do Open Source with only Open Source tools have a tough road to hoe.  Maybe this is possible for those generating software only tools, although even there I suspect that there are frequently proprietary BIOSes in motherboards, hard drives and the like, and definitely the makers of the monitors, keyboards and power supplies consider their work proprietary.

If you are working at the hardware/software interface it is just flat impossible.  How open source is your Fluke multimeter or your oscilloscope or ...?  Even if you are rolling your own instruments you will be using commercial parts that are all covered by some combination of patents and trade secrets. 

DEX is a tool to make hardware, not a software package which is intended to be included in part of a larger software construct.  If you don't want to use a tool fine.  If you are too poor or too cheap to afford the tool, that is too bad.   But don't fault the tool for your attitude or condition.

[Neganur]

DEX is a tool to make hardware, not a software package which is intended to be included in part of a larger software construct.  If you don't want to use a tool fine.  If you are too poor or too cheap to afford the tool, that is too bad.   But don't fault the tool for your attitude or condition.

I would like to make clear that I am NOT too cheap to pay $49. But the move came rather out of the blue after a lot of talk of how DEX is free, hence I said bait and switch.

The website nor the software itself declare in what way the software is limited prior to purchasing a license (ver 6), which I would like to have explained since it seems you can save files, but not generate gerbers.

[zapta]

this i don't understand. i can perfectly design open source on multimillion dollar software. If i give you the source to it , with 'no strings' attached, then it is open source.
Open source stuff can be perfectly designed using closed source tools.

Yes, it's still open source but with higher burden on mixing and reuse which defeats the purpose.

See for example uCurrent's Altium source files, they are not accessible for many of us because of the price tag.

Openness is not binary, it's a continuum.

I do have an eagle license but I use only the free version for my open source projects.

[nctnico]

this i don't understand. i can perfectly design open source on multimillion dollar software. If i give you the source to it , with 'no strings' attached, then it is open source.
Open source stuff can be perfectly designed using closed source tools.

Yes, it's still open source but with higher burden on mixing and reuse which defeats the purpose.

See for example uCurrent's Altium source files, they are not accessible for many of us because of the price tag.

Perhaps but how much effort is it to redraw the schematics and PCB layout for such a simple design?
IMHO one of the reasons CERN is so involved in Kicad is that they have the same problem. They want to create open source hardware but currently there is no good open source CAD package which lends itself for the projects they embark on. Perhaps Iliya could try and make CERN pay him to create such a package if DEX is further along than Kicad.

[free_electron]

I've never understood the argument that open source needs to be made with open source. In any case it's done all the time.

That's not the argument being made. The argument being made is that open source is pointless if the source cannot be utilised.

What about the other way around. I design something , using open source tools, but it uses five 1500 ball bga's , requires a 22 layer board ,a waterjet , afive axis cnc and a lasercutter to build it.

We don't have to go that extreme. I use some hard to get laserdiode or very fast opamp. Or something some like a broadcomm part that requires an nda and minimum order ... (Raspberry pi anyone ?)

These are endless discussions. I gave you machine readable data , a pdf file, the gerbers and the source and compiled binaries to the software. I cant help it if you dont have a screwdriver... Or if you dont like the font in the pdf file.

The goal of open source is so you can learn and possibly modify. You have pdf and gerbers. I cant help it of you dont have a soldering iron... Or dont know how to use one

[zapta]

Perhaps Iliya could try and make CERN pay him to create such a package if DEX is further along than Kicad.

I doubt that they will adopt a Windows only tool. This is another DEX limitation when it comes to the open source.

[zapta]

These are endless discussions. I gave you machine readable data , a pdf file, the gerbers and the source and compiled binaries to the software. I cant help it if you dont have a screwdriver... Or if you dont like the font in the pdf file.

The goal of open source is so you can learn and possibly modify. You have pdf and gerbers. I cant help it of you dont have a soldering iron... Or dont know how to use one

Your project, you give it for free, you get to set the rules.  ;-)

[Iliya]

Perhaps Iliya could try and make CERN pay him to create such a package if DEX is further along than Kicad.

I doubt that they will adopt a Windows only tool. This is another DEX limitation when it comes to the open source.

When I first started to write AutoTRAX, I wrote AutoTRAX EDA. EDA was written in C++ and Microsoft MFC and was only available on Windows platforms.

I then started to port it so it would work on multiple platforms. I used QT from Trolltech and it worked on Windows, Mac OS and LINUX. However, during development Steve jobs decided to use Intel instead of PowerPC chips. This made my Apple G5 useless as a development environment. At the time Apple seem to be more concerned in selling iPods then developing desktop PCs so I thought there was no future in the Apple platform. For LINUX, the problem was that to me seems that LINUX users want everything for free since LINUX is free. Another reason for doing the port is that I wanted to check that the code was more resilient and would work on multiple platforms.

I then started to develop a part manager for AutoTRAX EDA using .Net. I found that the .Net environment was very easy for developing software and the application was fast, although not quite as fast as a native C++ application. It is, however, fast enough for the task in hand.

I am developing Active3D which is an application written in C++/11 and QT. It is OpenGL-based and is a viewer/modeller for 3-D. AutoTRAX DEX works with Active3D. You can download Active3D from my website. It is only a 64-bit application at the moment and will not run on 32-bit OS.

If anybody at CERN wishes me to develop a version of AutoTRAX using QT then please tell them to drop me an email. 

[Iliya]

The current downloadable version of AutoTRAX DEX is exactly the same as a full version. The only difference is that if it is not enabled by entering the software key which is a text string then it will not output to Gerber and there are a few restrictions on printing and plotting. The software key is machine independent and never expires and will authorise an unlimited number of machines. This software will also expire in seven days if a software key is not entered.

This is now done because for me it is quite simple. I only wish to sell one version of the software and that version does everything and nothing is disabled. I feel very uncomfortable in providing a “free” version which really is a Trojan horse. Many of my competitors are doing this but I think it is immoral.

See my article: free but not free or “I’m off to Cancun”. http://kov.com/Newsletter/Cancun

In 1996 while living in San Diego I was writing 3-D software. I was very much interested in getting my hands dirty doing electronics again and so decided to buy a PCB design suite. I selected MultiSim with UltraBoard and paid $1000 for the privilege. When I was using it I discovered that certain bits were messing so I phoned up the company that sold it to me only to discover that I’d bought the educational copy. I was shocked at having stumped up $1000 to only get the teaching version. So that is why I start to develop AutoTRAX EDA.

In ‘98 I returned to England and worked for a 3-D parametric solid modelling company at their research department in Cambridge; the main office was in Boston. I remember that one week selected developers were shipped off to Bermuda to have a think-tank style meeting about development. During that meeting one of the founders of that company discussed his plans for Trojan horses to give to Autodesk users and to get them to convert to the Boston software. His saying was “free, but not free”. So my saying is “beware geeks bearing gifts”.

If you buy a car you expect to be able to use all the seats and not to find several seats padlocked with coin meters.

[Iliya]

come on guys. it;s only 49$. why are you whining ?

The Third edition of The Art of Electronics is out now at $120 US. That's ~2.5 times as much as DEX. Nobody expects Horowitz and Hill to give it away for non-commercial use.

I think it would have been a lot easier to write a book than to write DEX. DEX is over 420,000 lines of code. So at 60 lines per page that is 7000 pages, 5.7 times that in The Art of Electronics and I have not included the DEX manual or videos. I know that the comparison is not quite right but believe you me the compiler is one hell of a picky and demanding proofreader

[Iliya]

his software will also expire in seven days if a software key is not entered.

Oh, okay... So after 7 days it can't be used any more? That kinda ruins it for me I'm afraid. Despite the annoying limitations of Eagle it is possible to use it for free indefinitely. That's a requirement for open source support in my book, so I'm afraid for now DEX is ruled out. Limitations are fine, as long as at least viewing is free indefinitely. Also, 7 days is a bit short for a proper evaluation.

Thanks for your hard work Iliya. I hope you have success as a commercial product. Sorry if I sound a bit negative, I was just very excited to see a really fantastic CAD package that I could use for open source projects. Unfortunately work won't switch away from Orcad.

So the $49 is the killer, even though it will license any number of machine for 1 user at a time (trust system). I'm sorry to hear this.

P.S. Do you work for free?

[Iliya]

To thanks all you guys and gals who have given me so much to think about and so much grief, though I have given some back!  I am going to give you 10 bucks (US) of the price of $49 and you can have it for a lunacy price of $39.

http:///pcb.software/Purchase/eevblog

However my accountant (the cat!) says it must end at Easter as we are both off to Cancun.



So here's you change to get DEX at the steal price of $39. 

This is the FULL version and includes free upgrades for 12 months and never expires.
The software is machine independent, works on any Windows XP or later M/C and never expires.
Unlimited pin count, sheets, layers, parts, PCB size - in other words : everything unlimited!

Now I'm off to find some food for the cat. 

[Neganur]

The current downloadable version of AutoTRAX DEX is exactly the same as a full version. The only difference is that if it is not enabled by entering the software key which is a text string then it will not output to Gerber and there are a few restrictions on printing and plotting. The software key is machine independent and never expires and will authorise an unlimited number of machines. This software will also expire in seven days if a software key is not entered.

Thanks for clarifying
7 days is plenty enough for me

[zapta]

So the $49 is the killer, even though it will license any number of machine for 1 user at a time (trust system). I'm sorry to hear this.

P.S. Do you work for free?

Sometimes I get paid and sometimes not.  ;-)

Your work on DEX is very impressive (chapeau!). If you want to take DEX to the next level, adoption and business wise, I would suggest to hire/partner with somebody that has passion, track record, and understanding of the market.  The one man operation model limits the product IMO.

That's my 2c.

[Iliya]

The current downloadable version of AutoTRAX DEX is exactly the same as a full version. The only difference is that if it is not enabled by entering the software key which is a text string then it will not output to Gerber and there are a few restrictions on printing and plotting. The software key is machine independent and never expires and will authorise an unlimited number of machines. This software will also expire in seven days if a software key is not entered.

Thanks for clarifying
7 days is plentyenouhg for me

You can extend it by deleting C:\Users\XXXX\AppData\Local\AutoTRAX Software\DEX\Settings\License.xml where XXXX is you. This will start the clock running again. But please keep this secret between use, don't let anybody else know! 

[Iliya]

So the $49 is the killer, even though it will license any number of machine for 1 user at a time (trust system). I'm sorry to hear this.

P.S. Do you work for free?

Sometimes I get paid and sometimes not.  ;-)

Your work on DEX is very impressive (chapeau!). If you want to take DEX to the next level, adoption and business wise, I would suggest to hire/partner with somebody that has passion, track record, and understanding of the market.  The one man operation model limits the product IMO.

That's my 2c.

Thanks for the complement.   

Sounds like a good idea.  Anybody interested? Contact me via http://kov.com/Support/Send-Us-An-Email