fluke, you make neat stuff, but really you r killing sparkfun

[XynxNet]

Fluke should think about the message they are sending with such a trademark!

"Our customers are so stupid that they confuse every grey-yellow multimeter with a fluke"   

[Wytnucls]

The funny thing is that all these cheap grey and yellow meters are still available directly from China. All Fluke is doing is hurting the small retailers in the US.
Perhaps Fluke should spend their energy on having their trademark recognized in China instead:

http://www.unitalen.com/html/unitalen/report/15961-1.htm

2. What kinds of signs can be Chinese registered trademarks?
 According to Chinese Trademark Law, any visual sign, if it can be used to distinguish the goods or service of one natural person, legal entity or any other organization from that of others, including any word, design, letters of an alphabet, numerals, three-dimensional symbol, combinations of colors, and their actual combination, may be filed for registration. What I want to further mention or emphasize is, before 2002, any three-dimensional symbol or combination of colors cannot be a registered trademark in China. The law has changed since 2002. So far, Chinese Trademark Law does not allow sound marks, smell marks or other kinds of marks to be registered and the Chinese Trademark Office still doesn’t accept these types of trademarks’ registration applications.

[AndyC_772]

There's no point filing for trade mark protection in a country which isn't one of your major markets, and where you're unlikely to be able to get that protection enforced anyway. Trying to enforce a trade mark in China would be an expensive, and pointless, game of whack-a-mole, more than likely played without a hammer.

The object of the exercise is not to prevent meters from looking like Flukes at all, it's to prevent meters from looking like Flukes in markets where people might actually have bought a real Fluke instead.

[iloveelectronics]

There's no point filing for trade mark protection in a country which isn't one of your major markets...

I don't know how significant the China market is to Fluke but you'd be surprised in how highly regarded and popular Fluke DMM's are if you visit some Chinese forums on the topic. Obviously not many people in China can actually afford the higher end products but the Chinese made 17B's and used 187's and 189's or even 289's are extremely popular!

[Wytnucls]

Don't kid yourself, Fluke has a significant market share in China (>30%) for DMMs and China is responsible for 7% of revenue for the whole Danaher group.

http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fphx.corporate-ir.net%2FExternal.File%3Fitem%3DUGFyZW50SUQ9NDM5NzM4fENoaWxkSUQ9NDYxMzM2fFR5cGU9MQ%3D%3D%26t%3D1&ei=qf0rU6DNMMqc0AWd94GYAw&usg=AFQjCNG9Og2lXrrvZjce3L1RxU0CTcXnZA&bvm=bv.62922401,d.d2k

[Bored@Work]

The funny thing is that all these cheap grey and yellow meters are still available directly from China.

Yes, and if you import a single one on your own into the US, and if you happen to run into a bored customs inspector, or an inspector in training looking for some training material , it might be confiscated, too.

Importing 2000 at once made Sparkfun - the not so mom and pop shop - appear on the radar. Luck might have it that your import might not show up.

  All Fluke is doing is hurting the small retailers in the US.

Sparkfun is not that small a retailer. And hurting people selling contender's stuff is a good business move. It happens all the time. Welcome to capitalism.

Perhaps Fluke should spend their energy on having their trademark recognized in China instead:

That is the typical "but officer, the others are speeding even faster" excuse.

[saturation]

I second Dave on this, I've never seen such a meter in 30+ years of being in electronics.  Before the Fluke 80 series was introduced DMM typically had this look, many were copies of the Fluke 8020 design:



In 1988-9 when the 80 was introduced Fluke's line was this, the look of various models were copied by a host of big names like Tektronix, HP, Beckman Industrial, Triplett etc., :




Which in the 21st Century was similar to excavortee's collection photo:




For details on Fluke model and changes, see his info page:

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Fluke-Meters-80-Type-Models-and-Series-/10000000007491382/g.html

well i have a non-fluke, name brand (rebranded), fluke colored multimeter that is decades older than the fluke patent that wishes to call bullshit n that.

What model is it? and date?
Can you post a photo?
Does it have a yellow holster and dark body?

[dr.diesel]

I do hope Sparkfun follow up on exactly what they got and how many.

No list yet, but here is their plan:

https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1430

[saturation]

Great links W, thanks.  At least it shows how important the 'look' and need to solidify its reputation are. 

Don't kid yourself, Fluke has a significant market share in China (>30%) for DMMs and China is responsible for 7% of revenue for the whole Danaher group.

http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fphx.corporate-ir.net%2FExternal.File%3Fitem%3DUGFyZW50SUQ9NDM5NzM4fENoaWxkSUQ9NDYxMzM2fFR5cGU9MQ%3D%3D%26t%3D1&ei=qf0rU6DNMMqc0AWd94GYAw&usg=AFQjCNG9Og2lXrrvZjce3L1RxU0CTcXnZA&bvm=bv.62922401,d.d2k

[Bored@Work]

I do hope Sparkfun follow up on exactly what they got and how many.

No list yet, but here is their plan:

https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1430

We would like to take you up on this offer. SparkFun is committed to education and will donate your meters through our outreach events at various school districts and educational conferences. We will be sure your meters make it into the hands of good people.

So to all those angry facebitchtwitterers, or whatever, sorry, no free Fluke for you,  unless you happen to be at the right place at the right time at the right age somewhere in the US.

[Rasz]

They didn't trademark a color, Sparkfun's post is misleading.

Description of Mark

The mark consists of the colors dark gray and yellow as applied to the goods. The dotted outline of the goods is intended to show the position of the mark and is not a part of the mark.

Rather, the overall "color scheme" is trademarked: grey body with yellow border. And frankly, I agree with them. That's the "Fluke look". Everyone knows that's what a Fluke DMM looks like, and everyone knows that the cheapo multimeters that also use that scheme are trying to imitate them.

Thats funny, because "Fluke look" was white/gray, then it was gray, then yellow, its gray on yellow only in last 10 years.


Trademark is from 2003, yet that look was GENERIC in 2002 already. Fluke received trademark for a design that was generic, retroactively.

Fluke went yellow in the nineties? they were still all gray in the eighties. yellow holster  with gray meter was 2000 something. Trademark was 2003.
Do a google search for yellow holster with date limit set to 2002, you will find plenty of multimeters looking just like fluke.

Yellow meter with contrasting color 'holster' from the ~1940 :

http://www.stevenjohnson.com/apparatusdesignco/index.html

[saturation]

The yellow on grey via holster look first appeared with Fluke 80 series, which appeared in 1988-9.   At the time, IIRC no one made DMM with a holster of that type as the DMMs of the period mostly looked like the Popular Electronics cover I posted.  If someone recalls a meter that had a similar look before 1989 just give me a name and I can find a photo from my library.

Thats funny, because "Fluke look" was white/gray, then it was gray, then yellow, its gray on yellow only in last 10 years.
Trademark is from 2003, yet that look was GENERIC in 2002 already. Fluke received trademark for a design that was generic, retroactively.

Fluke went yellow in the nineties? they were still all gray in the eighties. yellow holster  with gray meter was 2000 something. Trademark was 2003.

[Excavatoree]

For some reason, I thought the yellow holstered 70 series pre-dated the 80, but I think I was wrong about that.

The 70 series used the more squared-off, green holsters until the 80 series came out, then they switched to the yellow or grey holster with the matching rounded theme of the new 80 series.

The difference in the LCD surround of the 70 series is the key - if it's grey, it's the newer yellow or grey holster.  If it's green (well, greenish gray, like the older cases) it had the older holster.

I can't keep this stuff straight - too many details for my mind to keep up with.

I like the yellow meters in grey holsters. 

[Corporate666]

I bought a something today for $100 and expected to sell it for $1000.

What a surprise that never happened, only got $200 for it. Does that mean I made a loss of of $800 or a profit of $100.

Corporate666 welcome to reality....

You can value your inventory however you want - but good luck explaining your method to the tax man or the insurance company if your valuation does not meet industry standards.

And the industry standard for retailers is to value the inventory at retail price.  2,000 meters with a retail price of $15 are worth $30,000.  That's the reality. 

The $10k wholesale cost is not deducted from the $30k - that doesn't make sense unless Sparkfun was being reimbursed the $10k - which they have stated they aren't.

Keep grasping at those straws.

You should learn how accounting actually works in business.  It matters not how you think things should be valued, just as it matters not how people think trademarks should work - what actually does matter is the real world.  And in the real world, retailers value their inventory at retail price.

Anyone who has been involved in serious retailing, or taken our an insurance policy covering business issues, or dealt with a distributor who retails products, knows that this is how items are valued.  It's just the way things work in the real world.

[Corporate666]

At the end of the day, when it all comes out in the wash, all the tax man cares about it your expenses and your income, giving you a net profit that they tax.
Sparkfun lost $10K, or whatever the cost actually was + the disposal.
If they are smart they will make up for that in extra sales some how, but that's hard to quantify. Plus of course the publicity, which is worth a lot more than that $10K in advertising, but again, that's hard (impossible) to quantify. Same thing for Fluke, this is the best money they ever spent. Again, not $30K worth, maybe $10K in inventory cost.
Start the conspiracy theories, both of them set this up as a marketing gimmick 

Have to totally disagree with you Dave.

That retailers inventory is valued at retail price is as standard in the business world as shops taking cash in exchange for goods.  The $20k loss of profit is a very real loss, because Sparkfun is a grown up enough business to know what stock they need and when, and know they can sell it. 

I'm not sure about the $10k in hard cash lost (+ disposal) being worth the publicity.  I think us tech folks always assume companies come out ahead in the end... I've seen people do the same to you, suggesting that you earn so much or get so much stuff free that any frustration you express is acting or some such, but I know how hard it is to run a business and you know it too - so I am almost positive that, given the choice today between letting things happen as they did or going back in time and having customs allow the shipment through, they'd choose to let the shipment through.

We'll never know though   In the end, I am very happy Fluke came out looking like roses, absolutely beautiful handling of the situation - mega kudos to them.

[Corporate666]

Can they really charge you to dispose of stuff they decide not to allow in?
Do they offset any recovered value? e.g. scrap metal & other recyclables (probably not applicable here, maybe the batteries)  but certainly would for some types of items.

AIUI  they could legally re-export it. Would shipping as a charity donation to another country cost less than disposal?

Yes they really charge you and no they don't offset recovered value against your costs.  I think being a designated disposal facility for CBP is probably one of the sweetest gigs around.  Years ago, I knew someone who drove a truck for one of those disposal companies.  Back then they were less strict about chain of custody, and this guy got staggering amounts of loot... off the top of my head, big screen TV's, top of the line skis and boots, clothes, electronics and more - all brand new.

Exporting is allowed but there are so many fees involved (they can basically name their price as they have you over a barrel) that unless it's high value items, it's often not worth it.

[Rasz]

Thats funny, because "Fluke look" was white/gray, then it was gray, then yellow, its gray on yellow only in last 10 years.
Trademark is from 2003, yet that look was GENERIC in 2002 already. Fluke received trademark for a design that was generic, retroactively.

Fluke went yellow in the nineties? they were still all gray in the eighties. yellow holster  with gray meter was 2000 something. Trademark was 2003.

The yellow on grey via holster look first appeared with Fluke 80 series, which appeared in 1988-9.   At the time, IIRC no one made DMM with a holster of that type as the DMMs of the period mostly looked like the Popular Electronics cover I posted.  If someone recalls a meter that had a similar look before 1989 just give me a name and I can find a photo from my library.

thats even worse, trademarks are not first to ineven^^^design. Basically fluke let that design become generic for 20 years, and then all of a sudden received trademark for it.

[FrankT]

The yellow on grey via holster look first appeared with Fluke 80 series, which appeared in 1988-9.   At the time, IIRC no one made DMM with a holster of that type as the DMMs of the period mostly looked like the Popular Electronics cover I posted.  If someone recalls a meter that had a similar look before 1989 just give me a name and I can find a photo from my library.

Not grey and yellow, just yellow, but this is still my go to meter I got in the mid-80s...

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/metex_digital_multimeter_m_3650.html

[TriodeTiger]

There were two threads but I think no one has mentioned this yet:
https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1430

While we will continue to enforce our trademark, we are taking this one-time action because we believe in the work of SparkFun supporting the Maker and education communities. This is important to us. We have been supporters of the Maker community for years through the donation of over half a million dollars worth of tools and employee time to organizations like First Robotics.

I suppose I do agree on the close lookalikes (certainly not that crazy manual ranging monster that was mistaken).. but how many of these multimetres are being trashed - is the real question.. if their 'well intentions' matter here.

What are your thoughts?

(I'd love one of those, by the way, )

[EEVblog]

This trademark should not have been granted. Any potential 'trademark" was already diluted before they even got around to registering it, and by now that ship has most definitely sailed. That being if you ignore the fact that it should not be possible to register such a generic trademark as one for a combination of two colours, and the fact that the actual ITC filing doesn't make any sense, claiming "Color is not claimed as a feature of the mark." and then claiming the colour scheme is the mark.

As I understand it Fluke did NOT trademark the colours. They are claiming the colours are "trade dress", so nothing was actually "granted" here in terms of Trademark. It's just that no one has bothered to challenge the trade commission exclusion order which Fluke got issued.

[EEVblog]

Not grey and yellow, just yellow, but this is still my go to meter I got in the mid-80s...

Yes, as I mentioned before, yellow meters were common before Fluke did their first yellow meter. They are claiming yellow outline/holster/trim with dark/gray/back meter.
Extech are obviously getting away with an orange holster.

[EEVblog]

For some reason, I thought the yellow holstered 70 series pre-dated the 80, but I think I was wrong about that.

I can't find any evidence of that in my magazine ad archives. Seems the yellow holster did start with the 80 series in the late 80's, and Fluke didn't change the 70 series holster to yellow until a year or two later.

[turbo!]

This is one of those items where determining infringement is not black and white. It isn't clear like products that use use a rip off firmware code bit by bit except the company name, specific algorithms or features protected by current patents.

You have China playing the game of how far they can get away it and you have American companies playing how far they can get away with asserting infringement or trying to patent the use of common knowledge in specific application.  For example, Apple asserting patent to magnetic power plug for laptops which has been used for decades in portable appliances.

A good example of predatory practice used by many big companies is to try to suppress businesses who compete against them or don't like their products sold by someone they haven't authorized. Big companies use spurious intellectual property claims to suppress sellers on eBay all the time. Usually to eliminate commercial quantities of their products offered outside of  dealer network they control in order to artificially maintain prices (Retail Price Maintenance, fancy phrase for price fixing) or feels that the products are "similar" and therefore infringing.  Not liking is not the same as illegal.  Even if Fluke matches the confiscated DMMs with their products for this company to donate(which isn't a competitive threat) or to sell(most likely on Fluke's terms with contractual obligations such as abiding by minimum advertising price policy...), I personally see it as leveraging the resources they have as a large corporation to just give away 300 units of DMMs in order to wipe away competing forces against them(a larger fish getting eaten by even larger fish...)

Ferraris are often characterized by bright red paint which they call Ferrari red. Dark DMM with yellow trim is like asserting ownership to two door vehicle with four black tires and red paint and using reasoning like those who don't know much about cars might see the "sporty" red car and Ferrari as comparable and dilute their brand.  Those FIUKE, FUKE using a case that was casted from the original is a clear violation. I think it would be obvious to any reasonable audience. Of course, then there is a spectrum of grey zone between the obvious copycat vs stretching the limit of black/grey and yellow combination.

[scientist]

Sparkfun doesn't want to bother with legal fees. $30k is chump change to them, but a lawsuit could cost millions.

[Noise Floor]

In the end it looks like both groups came out ahead and nothing with the "system" changed.  "Same as it ever was."