fluke, you make neat stuff, but really you r killing sparkfun

[EEVblog]

well i have a non-fluke, name brand (rebranded), fluke colored multimeter that is decades older than the fluke patent that wishes to call bullshit n that.

What model is it? and date?
Can you post a photo?
Does it have a yellow holster and dark body?

[mikeselectricstuff]

I don't think prior art is as much of an issue with trademarks as it is with patents. This males sense, as a look/feel can become associated with a successful brand even if someone less well know had something similar in the past.

[dr.diesel]

What a brilliant move.

Agreed.

I've talked with Nate (founder of SparkFun) personally, he's a stand up guy.  The US customs event along with a raffle/give-a-way/contest/etc will generate sales that might actually exceed the original loss anyhow.

[c4757p]

I don't think prior art is as much of an issue with trademarks as it is with patents. This males sense, as a look/feel can become associated with a successful brand even if someone less well know had something similar in the past.

^ This.

Where are you people getting this "prior art" idea?

[TopLoser]

No you don't, because the $30k in expected revenues from the sale of the meters included their reimbursement the money paid for the meters.  Sparkfun is not getting their money back for the meters - they are eating it.  So instead of $10,000 spent and $20,000 received (net profit of $20k), they have spent $10,000 and won't get that $20k, therefore the cost to them is a real $30k.

Ah, so you are talking accounting tricks.

No, just fundamental common sense.

If you spend $10k to earn $30k, your net profit is $20k. 

If you spend $10k but then earn nothing - you have lost both the $10k your spent as well as the $20k you were going to earn. 

You don't subtract the $10k from the $30k unless you get it back.  But Sparkfun has said the meters will be returned to the manufacturer or destroyed - and that the manufacturer has refused to accept them back.  So the $10k they spent on the meters is gone, as is the $20k they would have earned.

Loss = $30k

I bought a something today for $100 and expected to sell it for $1000.

What a surprise that never happened, only got $200 for it. Does that mean I made a loss of of $800 or a profit of $100.

Corporate666 welcome to reality....

[deth502]

well i have a non-fluke, name brand (rebranded), fluke colored multimeter that is decades older than the fluke patent that wishes to call bullshit n that.

What model is it? and date?
Can you post a photo?
Does it have a yellow holster and dark body?

trying to find a date on it now, cant find shit. it was years old when i got it around 2000, so im sure it predates their 2000 copyright. its a sears (not craftsman) number 982014017.

[deth502]

fwiw, i also have a fluke from 2010, 10 years after the filing of the patent, that has absolutely no yellow on it at all.

how can you claim an exclusive right to a certain style if you do not even use that style exclusively?

[deth502]

Reply from Fluke on the facebook page https://www.facebook.com/notes/fluke-corporation/sparkfun-we-hear-you/10151978262765592

Better response than I figured! 

Summary:  Fluke has offered $30,000+ in genuine Fluke stuff (not specified) to SparkFun, to sell or donate.

i didnt read it that way. 

The value of the equipment exceeds the value of the Customs-held shipment.

do you determine the value of the held shippment by the final sale price? i would read that as the value of the shipment meaning what sparkfun paid the chineese supplier for it, ie. significantly less than $30k. probably around $10k

and keep iin mind that a good sized chunk you pay for that fluke goes to advertising, research, and paying off those  senators, customs agents, and patent office people, so for them to give up what would be lot of meters with a $10k retail value would only actually cost them a fraction of that.

i think this was a BRILLIANT idea on fluke's behalf. they come out looking like the winner and probably for a few hundred $$, if that.

well played, fluke, well played.

[Corporate666]

It's not like everyone was making yellow/gray meters and Fluke came along and trademarked it, stopping everyone else.  Rather, Fluke came along and were the first ones to do it and made it into a strong brand - and that is why everyone else stated to do it.

well i have a non-fluke, name brand (rebranded), fluke colored multimeter that is decades older than the fluke patent that wishes to call bullshit n that.

...and if that company had pursued a yellow/gray color scheme on their meters as part of their brand identity, then Fluke wouldn't have been able to trademark it as representative of their brand. 

It's a trademark - not a patent.  So Fluke doesn't need to be the first ones to do it, just the first ones to make the color scheme part of their branding.  Which they did, and got a trademark on it after people started copying their branding to ride their coattails.

[EEVblog]

I don't think prior art is as much of an issue with trademarks as it is with patents.

It's not. You can trademark names etc people have been using for years. Although that does not stop the existing companies using that name or look if they have a trade history of using it. Just like that kickstarter company trademarking my uCurrent name, they can't stop me using that name as I have a trade history with it.
In this case if a company could show that they have a trade history of using the same yellow holster with dark meter or whatever, then legally Fluke couldn't touch them. Although that certainly doesn't mean they can't try, or that custom would give two hoots about it. Customs will simply follow the trade injunction, and not even ask questions later.
"Trade dress" is a very tricky issue, and is not strictly covered by the trademark, and even with both teams of lawyers blasting at 40 paces it can take years and many millions to resolve. As usual, the deepest pockets usually wins.

[Corporate666]

I bought a something today for $100 and expected to sell it for $1000.

What a surprise that never happened, only got $200 for it. Does that mean I made a loss of of $800 or a profit of $100.

Corporate666 welcome to reality....

You can value your inventory however you want - but good luck explaining your method to the tax man or the insurance company if your valuation does not meet industry standards.

And the industry standard for retailers is to value the inventory at retail price.  2,000 meters with a retail price of $15 are worth $30,000.  That's the reality. 

The $10k wholesale cost is not deducted from the $30k - that doesn't make sense unless Sparkfun was being reimbursed the $10k - which they have stated they aren't. 

[EEVblog]

Where are you people getting this "prior art" idea?

I didn't think anyone was talking that?
I've been mentioning it, as I mentioned in my original post, not because it's "prior art", but because it could show that Fluke weren't the first to do it, in which case they could just be copycats. But that in no way invalidates their trade dress rights. "Prior art" in this case would give that company a right to continue using that trade dress if they have also have a history with it.

[TopLoser]

I bought a something today for $100 and expected to sell it for $1000.

What a surprise that never happened, only got $200 for it. Does that mean I made a loss of of $800 or a profit of $100.

Corporate666 welcome to reality....

You can value your inventory however you want - but good luck explaining your method to the tax man or the insurance company if your valuation does not meet industry standards.

And the industry standard for retailers is to value the inventory at retail price.  2,000 meters with a retail price of $15 are worth $30,000.  That's the reality. 

The $10k wholesale cost is not deducted from the $30k - that doesn't make sense unless Sparkfun was being reimbursed the $10k - which they have stated they aren't.

Keep grasping at those straws.

[EEVblog]

You can value your inventory however you want - but good luck explaining your method to the tax man or the insurance company if your valuation does not meet industry standards.
And the industry standard for retailers is to value the inventory at retail price.  2,000 meters with a retail price of $15 are worth $30,000.  That's the reality. 

At the end of the day, when it all comes out in the wash, all the tax man cares about it your expenses and your income, giving you a net profit that they tax.
Sparkfun lost $10K, or whatever the cost actually was + the disposal.
If they are smart they will make up for that in extra sales some how, but that's hard to quantify. Plus of course the publicity, which is worth a lot more than that $10K in advertising, but again, that's hard (impossible) to quantify. Same thing for Fluke, this is the best money they ever spent. Again, not $30K worth, maybe $10K in inventory cost.
Start the conspiracy theories, both of them set this up as a marketing gimmick 

[all_repair]

I bought a something today for $100 and expected to sell it for $1000.

What a surprise that never happened, only got $200 for it. Does that mean I made a loss of of $800 or a profit of $100.

Corporate666 welcome to reality....

You can value your inventory however you want - but good luck explaining your method to the tax man or the insurance company if your valuation does not meet industry standards.

And the industry standard for retailers is to value the inventory at retail price.  2,000 meters with a retail price of $15 are worth $30,000.  That's the reality. 

The $10k wholesale cost is not deducted from the $30k - that doesn't make sense unless Sparkfun was being reimbursed the $10k - which they have stated they aren't.

I do not believe Sparkfun's claims.  The meter does look alike as a Fluke to me, not just a simple color-combo.  And cost to them is not equal to loss to them.  Retail price as cost, kidding who?  And the supplier shall and will refund money (may not be full) if they want the future business from Sparkfun.  People here who are very knowledgeable are aware of the weakness of the clones, but Fluke's concern is real and has been shown by Dave in his blow up tests.

[EEVblog]

I do hope Sparkfun follow up on exactly what they got and how many.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I'm a little puzzled by the "disposal cost" thing.
Can they really charge you to dispose of stuff they decide not to allow in?
Do they offset any recovered value? e.g. scrap metal & other recyclables (probably not applicable here, maybe the batteries)  but certainly would for some types of items.

AIUI  they could legally re-export it. Would shipping as a charity donation to another country cost less than disposal?

[peter.mitchell]

For about 15-16$ you can get on eBay an Uni-T UT33A : http://www.uni-trend.com.cn/cp-show.asp?yy=%D6%D0%CE%C4&ProductNO=451

Auto ranging, 4000 count, diode, continuity, uA, mA, A, transistor check and hFe,  everything a beginner would want or need. Just inductor measurment is missing but it's not that used.
I guess it just wasn't the right price for Sparkfun, they'd rather buy crap cheap and sell high.

I'd go the UT-136 over that, the UT136s 10A range is fused, less likely to blow something up, plus, they can sell fuses then!

[BravoV]

Apologies for posting this, still a bit related though, its just I strongly believe it is the right timing & moment, a shameless ad -> HERE.

Again, sorry ...  ... <duck>

LOL ... Fluke just turned the SparkFun amateur PR campaign from supposed to be a noble crusade like David vs Goliath into a pesky "Bug" crushing scene. 

Damn ... there goes my advertisement down to the toilet because of a massive mood swing at the mob "steered" by Fluke. 

Damn you Fluke, now I'm turning into hater .... alone. 

[linux-works]

good on fluke for seizing the moment and doing the right thing.

for this little bit of money (to them) they just rebought their reputation with a lot of us.  at least in terms of business ethics.  their test gear has always been first rate, but this PR move really shines the light in a positive way, on them.

[EEVblog]

I'm a little puzzled by the "disposal cost" thing.
Can they really charge you to dispose of stuff they decide not to allow in?

Of course they can, it's the US government, they can do anything they like. Of course, being 'murica it's likely given to a US private contractor for disposal, and they likely send you the big bill, I'm surprised it's so cheap actually.

[IanB]

I'm a little puzzled by the "disposal cost" thing.
Can they really charge you to dispose of stuff they decide not to allow in?

Importing shipments of cargo can be quite expensive. Not only are there the customs brokerage fees and so forth, but if there are any delays in retrieving your consignment from the port for any reason (e.g. because customs hold it for inspection), your consignment is likely to be moved to a long term warehouse with significant storage fees.

[true]

For about 15-16$ you can get on eBay an Uni-T UT33A : http://www.uni-trend.com.cn/cp-show.asp?yy=%D6%D0%CE%C4&ProductNO=451

Auto ranging, 4000 count, diode, continuity, uA, mA, A, transistor check and hFe,  everything a beginner would want or need. Just inductor measurment is missing but it's not that used.
I guess it just wasn't the right price for Sparkfun, they'd rather buy crap cheap and sell high.

I'd go the UT-136 over that, the UT136s 10A range is fused, less likely to blow something up, plus, they can sell fuses then!

I second the UT-136 - use one regularly at work for checking small currents, 5 to 24V power adapters, checking resistances and verifying caps, other little things. Been beaten up and still looks and works like new.

The only thing I miss from having my Flukes in the field is the magnetic mount to be honest. (I'd rather keep my good meters at home, where coworkers / other trades / customers won't steal them) Maybe I'll hack a strong magnet into one and post photos...

[aargee]

Well as for the colour thing... a number of years ago here in Australia, the chocolate giant Cadbury's took a smaller chocolate manufacturer, Darrell Lea to court over them daring to wrap one of their chocolate bars in a purple wrapper.

They didn't China-fy it by trying to make it look like a Cadbury bar - it was just the colour. Cadbury claimed the purple was "Cadbury purple" and no body was allowed to use it. The case was dismissed...  so I think building a case on a single colour alone will not stand scrutiny.

[ve7xen]

LOL ... Fluke just turned the SparkFun amateur PR campaign from supposed to be a noble crusade like David vs Goliath into a pesky "Bug" crushing scene. 

It's a suave move from Fluke, but they're not really recanting here with their abuse of trademark law, so I'll give them credit for having a competent PR team, but it definitely doesn't give them a free pass on the actual issue at hand.

This trademark should not have been granted. Any potential 'trademark" was already diluted before they even got around to registering it, and by now that ship has most definitely sailed. That being if you ignore the fact that it should not be possible to register such a generic trademark as one for a combination of two colours, and the fact that the actual ITC filing doesn't make any sense, claiming "Color is not claimed as a feature of the mark." and then claiming the colour scheme is the mark.

So yeah, typical corporate dick-itude, but at least they're using lube.