fluke, you make neat stuff, but really you r killing sparkfun

[janoc]

People complaining to Fluke are totally barking up the wrong tree.  There is nothing Fluke can do, nor should they.  They worked hard for that trademark, and if they willfully do not protect it, they lose it by definition.

People complaining to Fluke are doing exactly the right thing - it may not do anything for SparkFun, but it does send a message that filling BS trademarks on stuff that shouldn't be trademarkable because it is too generic and then using that BS mark to bully competitors is *NOT* OK.

Granted, USPTO has royally screwed the pooch here by granting this markl, same as when they allowed the Apple's patent for a rectangular slab with round corners, but that doesn't make it any less atrocious.

In another case Microsoft tried to trademark the word "Windows" - and got rejected, fortunately. Otherwise your house wouldn't be allowed to have windows but "ventilation & lighting holes".

I do wonder whether the crate of crappy meters was worth of this shitstorm of bad PR all over the internet to Fluke ... 

[SL4P]

My feeling is that we need to separate a few things here...

- The multi-meter - other multi-meters are allowed generically.
- The grey body - virtually every piece of electronics tools have a grey / dark body.
- The yellow perimeter - is a recognized hazard / safety indicator - used in rescue and other warning scenarios to avoid damage, loss or injury due its colour and high-contrast.

[Russ.Dill@gmail.com]

Yellow/gray housings on handheld meters are a trademark of Fluke... people see that and think of Fluke.

That's entirely circular. There was demand for that color combination well before the trademark, and quality manufacturers were providing it for customers. Take the HP 973A for instance (1995). If people see yellow/grey housings on a meter and think of Fluke, its only because Fluke forced other makers to stop using that combination, not because its somehow originally unique to Fluke. Now, if they are calling their meter FUKE and/or have a logo with great similarity to the Fluke logo, that's a different story.

[peter.mitchell]

I wonder what that meter is like compared to the uni t ut 136. Maybe they should say "stuff it,  lets use it as an oportunity to go one better! "

[mariush]

Like i said here or on the other thread "bloody fluke", the Sparkfun multimeter is one of those very cheap with minimal protections multimeter.

It's a rebranded Victor VC830L that's available on eBay for 12$ with free shipping : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victor-VC830L-LCD-Digital-Multitester-AC-DC-Multimeter-Tester-Voltmeter-Ohmeter-/221373898550?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338ae99f36

Alibaba is also full of them.  If you can buy them for 12$ on ebay, how much do you think they paid for a 2000 piece order? Less than 10$ is my bet, I'd guess even around 6-7$.

The multimeter is not worth the 15$, it's a plain 2000 count, manual range multimeter, probably with a COB chip, one fuse for the Amps range, Cat 2 probes... crap.

For about 15-16$ you can get on eBay an Uni-T UT33A : http://www.uni-trend.com.cn/cp-show.asp?yy=%D6%D0%CE%C4&ProductNO=451

Auto ranging, 4000 count, diode, continuity, uA, mA, A, transistor check and hFe,  everything a beginner would want or need. Just inductor measurment is missing but it's not that used.
I guess it just wasn't the right price for Sparkfun, they'd rather buy crap cheap and sell high.

[echen1024]

I would agree with c4 here, as this is trademark dilution.

[nitro2k01]

My local electronics store has had a shopping cart overflowing with these meters for years. If the color was that important, shouldn't it have been brought up way before now?

In the particular unit you're showing off there, a difference is that the yellow part is a holster and not an integrated part of the body.

[nitro2k01]

Yellow/gray housings on handheld meters are a trademark of Fluke... people see that and think of Fluke.

That's entirely circular. There was demand for that color combination well before the trademark, and quality manufacturers were providing it for customers. Take the HP 973A for instance (1995). If people see yellow/grey housings on a meter and think of Fluke, its only because Fluke forced other makers to stop using that combination, not because its somehow originally unique to Fluke. Now, if they are calling their meter FUKE and/or have a logo with great similarity to the Fluke logo, that's a different story.

The chain of events as far as I can understand it is, Fluke started using this color scheme in 1988 (if the trademark filing is to believed) and filed the trademark in 2000. The filing of the trademark was just a reassertion of the fact that grey body+yellow frame was a de facto trademark of Fluke. For the non-uniqueness argument to be valid, you would have to prove that this color scheme was prevalent before Fluke's first use in commerce, not just before the filing of the trademark. The reason for filing the trademark was a reaction to copycats copying the design of Fluke meters.

[staxquad]

Not only has Sparkfun been targeted but also  "Velleman, Harbor Freight, Elenco, Electronic Express, and Jameco to name a few"

[EEVblog]

They didn't trademark a color, Sparkfun's post is misleading.

It's called "trade dress" in the industry. i.e. a "look" that defines a product.

[staxquad]

You do realise that Fluke hasn't actively done anything at all in this case, right?

They own a trademark, and the relevant authorities have done their job enforcing it. That's all.

Blaming Fluke for this specific incident is pointless. If you want to complain about anyone, complain to the authorities. Argue that this particular DMM is so obviously a low quality, cheap PoS that it should be granted an exemption, and see how far you get.

Yes, it sucks, but it's also the reason why the shelves are NOT full of dangerous, inaccurate meters that actually DO look like Flukes.

they also name the manufacturers in China and the importers in the USA in the PDF

[andyturk]

Yellow/gray housings on handheld meters are a trademark of Fluke... people see that and think of Fluke.

Sorry, but fsck that. Fluke didn't invent Yellow and they didn't invent multimeters either.

You don't buy a Fluke because it's yellow (at least, I didn't), you buy it because it works well. There's zero likelihood (bupkis, nada, zilch, etc.) that any of Fluke's customers would be confused by a $15 Sparkfun knockoff P.O.S.

Save the talk about brand "dilution" for sugary soda water, overpriced handbags, and jeans that will be out of style in a year or two.

Oh, and fsck the lawyers that come up with this crap too.

[nitro2k01]

They didn't trademark a color, Sparkfun's post is misleading.

It's called "trade dress" in the industry. i.e. a "look" that defines a product.

c4757p's point was that it's not simply the color yellow that is trademarked, but the combination. Solid yellow body, yellow body with grey border and neon green body with yellow border are all arguably not covered by the trademark.

[staxquad]

They didn't trademark a color, Sparkfun's post is misleading.

It's called "trade dress" in the industry. i.e. a "look" that defines a product.

c4757p's point was that it's not simply the color yellow that is trademarked, but the combination. Solid yellow body, yellow body with grey border and neon green body with yellow border are all arguably not covered by the trademark.

And these don't look like Flukes, you'd never mistake them for Flukes, Fluke could not prove that they would be harmed by their sale, their markets are different, but are targeted by Fluke and denied entry to the USA.   

[Corporate666]

People complaining to Fluke are totally barking up the wrong tree.  There is nothing Fluke can do, nor should they.  They worked hard for that trademark, and if they willfully do not protect it, they lose it by definition.

People complaining to Fluke are doing exactly the right thing - it may not do anything for SparkFun, but it does send a message that filling BS trademarks on stuff that shouldn't be trademarkable because it is too generic and then using that BS mark to bully competitors is *NOT* OK.

Granted, USPTO has royally screwed the pooch here by granting this markl, same as when they allowed the Apple's patent for a rectangular slab with round corners, but that doesn't make it any less atrocious.

In another case Microsoft tried to trademark the word "Windows" - and got rejected, fortunately. Otherwise your house wouldn't be allowed to have windows but "ventilation & lighting holes".

I do wonder whether the crate of crappy meters was worth of this shitstorm of bad PR all over the internet to Fluke ... 

Who does it send a message to?  What do you think Fluke is going to do differently because a bunch of angry nerds who don't understand trademark law are pissed that they can't buy yellow and gray $15 multimeters?  All of this angst isn't going to do anything to Fluke except to prove to them that there are just as many infringing products as they feared and confirm that they were correct in asserting their IP.

If you think the laws for trademarking are too lax, then you ought to take that up with the politicians who pass those laws.  Expecting Fluke not to operate within those laws is silly.

And you are mistaken about the Windows thing - a key aspect of trademarks is dilution of the mark that lessen's its uniqueness, and confusion between companies using the mark.  There is no way a window in a home would ever be confused with software, which is why it would not affect anything in a home.  Just like you don't have to call apples "Green fruit energy units".  But don't stick an image of an apple on your electronics widget and expect not to get sued right quick.

[nitro2k01]

And these don't look like Flukes, you'd never mistake them for Flukes, Fluke could not prove that they would be harmed by their sale, their markets are different, but are targeted by Fluke and denied entry to the USA.   

Yes and no, some of those more than others.

Take this Elenco for example:



You don't just have the gray body and yellow border, but also a familiar button layout with one yellow and one blue button.

Again, as has been pointed out, it's about trademark dilution, not necessarily that people would actually confuse the brands. You may argue that customs shouldn't stop these goods from being imported for such a reason, but it's clear that these Chinese brands are, hmmm, inspired by Fluke. Design wise, not necessarily quality wise.

[Corporate666]

Yellow/gray housings on handheld meters are a trademark of Fluke... people see that and think of Fluke.

That's entirely circular. There was demand for that color combination well before the trademark, and quality manufacturers were providing it for customers. Take the HP 973A for instance (1995). If people see yellow/grey housings on a meter and think of Fluke, its only because Fluke forced other makers to stop using that combination, not because its somehow originally unique to Fluke. Now, if they are calling their meter FUKE and/or have a logo with great similarity to the Fluke logo, that's a different story.

It's not circular - it's sort of a chicken and egg thing.  Did Fluke assert their trademark rights because people were copying their branding, or did people only copy Fluke's branding because they asserted their trademark rights?  Well, since the trademark was granted and upheld, the answer is the former.  It's easy for us to look from a distance and say "that's crazy!  There are tons of yellow/gray multimeters out there!" - but that is just proof of how many manufacturers have been riding Fluke's coattails on their branding. 

[Corporate666]

Yellow/gray housings on handheld meters are a trademark of Fluke... people see that and think of Fluke.

Sorry, but fsck that. Fluke didn't invent Yellow and they didn't invent multimeters either.

You don't buy a Fluke because it's yellow (at least, I didn't), you buy it because it works well. There's zero likelihood (bupkis, nada, zilch, etc.) that any of Fluke's customers would be confused by a $15 Sparkfun knockoff P.O.S.

Save the talk about brand "dilution" for sugary soda water, overpriced handbags, and jeans that will be out of style in a year or two.

Oh, and fsck the lawyers that come up with this crap too.

You've misunderstood trademark law.  It's not simply about whether someone sees a $15 meter and thinks it's a fluke, it's about the dilution of the mark.

Coca Cola didn't invent red paint or it's use on canned beverages, nor the use of cursive text, but as someone else said previously, put them all together on a canned soft drink and wait for the phone to ring from the Coca Cola lawyers.  Same with meters... Fluke didn't invent yellow or its use on equipment, but they sufficiently developed the combination such that it became synonymous with their brand.  There are lots of safety colors like blue, orange, green and others - but it's no coincidence that so many meters skip all the other colors in going for yellow/gray - because Fluke made that scheme synonymous with "quality multimeter". 

[BravoV]

Apologies for posting this, still a bit related though, its just I strongly believe it is the right timing & moment, a shameless ad -> HERE.

Again, sorry ...  ... <duck>

[linux-works]

my fluke handhelds predate the YCE (yellow common era).

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to feel.

[andyturk]

You've misunderstood trademark law.  It's not simply about whether someone sees a $15 meter and thinks it's a fluke, it's about the dilution of the mark...

The grippy plastic cover on my 87-IV is great because it protects the instrument inside from abuse, not because it's Yellow. The dark gray of the hard plastic clearly has no bearing on the meter's function.

However, the power of Fluke's "mark" comes precisely from the fact that the color combination is arbitrary and essentially unrelated to what the product does.

It's form over function in the worst way. Yuck.

PS. Sorry, BravoV, I ain't gonna part with my 87. ;-)

[Joule Thief]

So next up will be the $14 multimeter (rubber case optional) with a $1 rubberized case in your choice of colors (yellow, red, blue)

oops -sorry - we only have yellow in stock!

[moemoe]

Looks like fluke has some sort of intellectual property on gray cases with yellow bumpers: https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1428

[moemoe]

Oops, I did a search prior to posting but didn't see this thread.

[Bored@Work]

No you don't, because the $30k in expected revenues from the sale of the meters included their reimbursement the money paid for the meters.  Sparkfun is not getting their money back for the meters - they are eating it.  So instead of $10,000 spent and $20,000 received (net profit of $20k), they have spent $10,000 and won't get that $20k, therefore the cost to them is a real $30k.

Ah, so you are talking accounting tricks.