fluke, you make neat stuff, but really you r killing sparkfun

[electronics man]

Why did they get away with it before?

[BravoV]

Why did they get away with it before?

We only heard Sparkfun's side of the story, but its very likely and common practice that Fluke's lawyer already sent notices or warnings far before launching this assault.

[Bored@Work]

Opportunity cost. They've already paid for the multimeters regardless of whether or not they can sell them, but they were expecting to eventually receive $30,000 in the future by selling them off at $15 each. That is a real, tangible financial loss.

Then you have to deduce the cost of buying them in China from the $30000.

[mariush]

Those multimeter probably cost them 5$ a piece or less.

At the very least they could just open each box and remove the leads and battery - sell the leads for 2$ and the battery for 1$  and they got close to half of their money back.

[photonpunk]

Seems like just another frivolous lawsuit to me. Anyone who knows that flukes are quality multimeters, should also be able to tell the deference between a fluke and a $15 sparkfun meter.  I'd understand if they had ripped off the logo or something.

[staxquad]

What really pisses me off about this is the use of homeland security to enforce what is essentially a civil/corporate legal issue.  This has nothing to do with security.  I've noticed over the last decade that the manifold police forces in America are being hijacked by corporations to do their dirty work.  This is the purvey of lawyers, not the police.

they don't want lawyer involvement, that would give the victim a chance

brown shirts

[Corporate666]

Opportunity cost. They've already paid for the multimeters regardless of whether or not they can sell them, but they were expecting to eventually receive $30,000 in the future by selling them off at $15 each. That is a real, tangible financial loss.

Then you have to deduce the cost of buying them in China from the $30000.

No you don't, because the $30k in expected revenues from the sale of the meters included their reimbursement the money paid for the meters.  Sparkfun is not getting their money back for the meters - they are eating it.  So instead of $10,000 spent and $20,000 received (net profit of $20k), they have spent $10,000 and won't get that $20k, therefore the cost to them is a real $30k.

[Dongulus]

Opportunity cost. They've already paid for the multimeters regardless of whether or not they can sell them, but they were expecting to eventually receive $30,000 in the future by selling them off at $15 each. That is a real, tangible financial loss.

Then you have to deduce the cost of buying them in China from the $30000.

No. The bulk cost of purchasing those multimeters does not matter nor does their profit margin.

When Sparkfun sells a multimeter for $15, a portion of that goes to paying back a fraction of the initial bulk purchase and the rest goes to Sparkfun as profit. Now that they can't sell their multimeters, Sparkfun have not only lost the profit they were expecting, but they have also sunk the cost of the bulk purchase that they won't get back either.

Any way you look at it, they were expecting to sell 2000 multimeters at $15 a pop which is $30,000 they are now denied.

[Edit] Corporate666 beat me to the punch

[Corporate666]

What really pisses me off about this is the use of homeland security to enforce what is essentially a civil/corporate legal issue.  This has nothing to do with security.  I've noticed over the last decade that the manifold police forces in America are being hijacked by corporations to do their dirty work.  This is the purvey of lawyers, not the police.

That part of it is actually OK... Customs and Border Patrol is under the umbrella of Homeland Security, and has been since terrorism became a buzzword to scare the public.  Part of CBP's mandate is to stem the import of illegal products.  They don't make the law, they just enforce it... the law (in this case, the trademark) was approved by the USPTO.  The USPTO are a bunch of imbeciles when it comes to granting patents and trademarks, but CBP doesn't get to choose which trademarks they will enforce.

What will have happened is that Fluke will have petitioned CBP to stop imports of products that infringe upon their IP.  With proof of valid IP (trademark/patent), CBP just handles the enforcement.

[8086]

Opportunity cost. They've already paid for the multimeters regardless of whether or not they can sell them, but they were expecting to eventually receive $30,000 in the future by selling them off at $15 each. That is a real, tangible financial loss.

Then you have to deduce the cost of buying them in China from the $30000.

No, they have lost stock and also they have lost profit. Total $30,000.

Edit: Well, that will teach me to not refresh the page before replying!

[edavid]

Wow, maybe Fluke will start checking their Facebook page more than once a week: https://www.facebook.com/fluke.corporation

[bxs]

The multimeter is so diferent from a fluke  one more US BS 

[free_electron]

What's the brand name of those meters ? FUK-U ?

[rsjsouza]

Although it is not 100% applicable to this case, a quick glimpse on Fluke's corporate stance on counterfeiting:

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/caen/community/fluke-news-plus/ArticleCategories/RD/The-Fight-Against-Counterfeit-Electrical-Products.htm

Although the red flag was regarding appearance, I wonder if any legal action from Sparkfun could further lengthen this discussion and extend it to other potential issues on these DMMs such as invalid certification agency markings, CAT ratings, etc. In any case, I think that Sparkfun loses.

[Phaedrus]

But what I don't get is why are they punishing sparkfun for a falt of the manufacturer.

So if you imported narcotics into your country from South America manufacturer, its never your fault instead of those parties in South America, huh ?   

The importer of narcotics would be arrested under US jurisdiction, and the producer of narcotics would be arrested under Colombian/Venezuelan/whatever jurisdiction, if they choose to enforce those laws. (they don't)

[deth502]

soooooo many things about this piss me off.

im not worried about sparkfun losing money, theyll survive.

frst off, corporate bullying. this pisses me off to no end. bullshit complaints from deep pocketed huge corporations that are enough to squash anyone trying to get a start. this is not contained to multimeters. you can create a great new ground breaking product, then some asshole with billions of $$$ will come anlong and say "that has an led on it, my copywrighted product also has an led on it, therfore, it is infringing on our ip" it dosewnt have to be true or make any sense, all they have to do is pay their lawyers enough to legally bankrupt you.

second, come on, this is fluke. EVERYONE who has ever even seen a dmm before knows who fluke is. is this little piece of shit really going to hurt them? fuck no.

next, my fucking tax dollars going to the govt are being used to enforce these bullies. that should be a civil matter.

if we look past that, and look at the letter, another reason was that the importing of them could "destroy or substantially injure an industry in the united states" , again, first off, bullshit. these will not affect fluke. if someone is looking to buy a $15 multimeter, they are not fluke customers, and if someone is looking to buy a fluke, they are not going to buy a pos $15 dmm. but more to the point with this, is that if they are going to use this as a reason to deny importation, then they should be stopping the import of nearly EVERY FUCKING THING that comes from china, including 99% of every item in every walmart. every foreign automobile, motorcycle, ect..... fact is, most us industries have already been killed or crippled by cheaper imports, but now, for some reason, on this one item, they choose to make a stand?

[AndyC_772]

You do realise that Fluke hasn't actively done anything at all in this case, right?

They own a trademark, and the relevant authorities have done their job enforcing it. That's all.

Blaming Fluke for this specific incident is pointless. If you want to complain about anyone, complain to the authorities. Argue that this particular DMM is so obviously a low quality, cheap PoS that it should be granted an exemption, and see how far you get.

Yes, it sucks, but it's also the reason why the shelves are NOT full of dangerous, inaccurate meters that actually DO look like Flukes.

[deth502]

this is the second thread on this. i already posted in the other, but to paraphrase, fuck fluke. this is another example of copyright bullying and money trying to kill any competition.

and as ive said in the other thread, the sales of these will hurt fluke? bullshit. someone who is looking to buy a $15 dmm IS NOT a fluke customer, and a fluke customer IS NOT going to buy one of these $15 pos's and feel it is a legitimate substitute for an actual fluke.

although, as much as i bitch about copyright abuse, and imo, calling a color scheme copyrighted definitely is,  i will say that that "ftike" meter in a previous post is wrong, they are absolutely trying to fool someone into thinking they are a fluke.

[linux-works]

I wish ebay would enforce abuse of keywords that are brand names.  if I search for a fluke meter, I don't want to see '1hl labs meeter,  good as fluke, tek, hp, agilent'.

also, DHS should stick to things they are good at, like robbing us of our water bottles and such.

[deth502]

the govt is doing it on behalf of fluke. if fluke was truly innocent in all of this, it would not be an issue. if they hadnt complained about it, no one would have been looking for it.

[AndyC_772]

Evidence?

[c4757p]

the govt is doing it on behalf of fluke. if fluke was truly innocent in all of this, it would not be an issue. if they hadnt complained about it, no one would have been looking for it.

They have to. Protecting your trademarks is one of the requirements to keep them considered "in use".

Good lord, can you people do a little research before declaring Fluke to be a bunch of bullies? If you want to bitch about DHS tearing open Sparkfun's packages, go ahead, but that's a separate issue.

[c4757p]

and as ive said in the other thread, the sales of these will hurt fluke? bullshit. someone who is looking to buy a $15 dmm IS NOT a fluke customer, and a fluke customer IS NOT going to buy one of these $15 pos's and feel it is a legitimate substitute for an actual fluke.

The existence of a large number of look-alike knockoffs can certainly hurt the perception of Fluke as a brand.

As I've said in this thread: Trademark dilution.

although, as much as i bitch about copyright abuse, and imo, calling a color scheme copyrighted definitely is,  i will say that that "ftike" meter in a previous post is wrong, they are absolutely trying to fool someone into thinking they are a fluke.

Copyright? The rules are different for different types of IP, please try to get them straight first.

Your opinion will seem more believable if it's informed.

[Russ.Dill@gmail.com]

the govt is doing it on behalf of fluke. if fluke was truly innocent in all of this, it would not be an issue. if they hadnt complained about it, no one would have been looking for it.

They have to. Protecting your trademarks is one of the requirements to keep them considered "in use".

Good lord, can you people do a little research before declaring Fluke to be a bunch of bullies? If you want to bitch about DHS tearing open Sparkfun's packages, go ahead, but that's a separate issue.

This is a nonsensical trademark though. Its a trademark used to bully smaller companies. Fluke was by no means the first company to release test equipment with a yellow border and contrasting colors and isn't the only company to do so. Imagine if cars worked this way. Ford owns blue, chevy red, honda yellow, hyundai black, bmw white, etc, etc.

[Corporate666]

I wish ebay would enforce abuse of keywords that are brand names.  if I search for a fluke meter, I don't want to see '1hl labs meeter,  good as fluke, tek, hp, agilent'.

also, DHS should stick to things they are good at, like robbing us of our water bottles and such.

eBay does do this... I've even had items delisted because of listing brands that an item fits... for example, if you wrote "Replacement iPhone charger" but you are not Apple, that is not allowed.  Nor are you allowed to list, say, a micro USB 5V charger and say "fits Motorola Razr, Samsung Galaxy S3, etc". 

They don't enforce it perfectly but I think it's just because they have so many listings to police.