Fake power cord, WHY? It came with a hard drive reader kit.

[Red Squirrel]

What I find weird about stuff like this is that it seems to me it would actually be MORE effort for them to do this.  They are already running factories to make legit cords, why not just run a bunch of extra batches for their own use?   That's basically how they make off brand stuff like iphones etc.  I mean, why not. The tooling is already setup and everything.

[soldar]

What I find weird about stuff like this is that it seems to me it would actually be MORE effort for them to do this.  They are already running factories to make legit cords, why not just run a bunch of extra batches for their own use?   That's basically how they make off brand stuff like iphones etc.  I mean, why not. The tooling is already setup and everything.

"Legit"? I don't understand your question. 

The factory makes cords to order and quotes prices according to materials used. A cord with less copper is going to be cheaper than a cord with more copper. That is true in China, in America and everywhere else in between and I don't see how that raises any questions.

"Already running factories"? This is like saying "hey, since you are already roofing my neighbor's house you might as well roof mine for free. Just keep on roofing."

[Kleinstein]

It is still odd they add a cable that is not legal in most countries - they could as well sell the unit without any cable. At least in Europe or the US there are plenty of such cable around and they are easily available if a spare is really needed.

[soldar]

It is still odd they add a cable that is not legal in most countries - they could as well sell the unit without any cable. At least in Europe or the US there are plenty of such cable around and they are easily available if a spare is really needed.

Most people in western countries have not the slightest clue regarding how grounding works. What makes you think some guy in China has any more clue? All he knows is that three prong looks better and makes the product look better while using two wires, something you can't see from the outside, saves money. Who knows if the guys making and selling the USB adapters are being swindled by some guy selling them the cables. It's not like the last guy in the chain is the one necessarily doing the swindling.

[richnormand]

@edy

I have an almost identical HD adapter as yours. I just checked the power cable for the PSU and it does have a proper ground.

I think the real issue, as you mentioned in you post. is not that the PSU actually need the ground pin or not, but that the cable could be used in another application that actually needs it for safety.

It is negligent and unsafe to allow these on the market. Similar to my power cable on a Lipo battery charger where the PSU stopped working due to a break near the middle of the cable. Highly unusual.... Once opened the "copper" wires were the thickness of a hair... Just imagine using it one a higher current device.

These should be stopped at the border or banned unless they have proper UL/CSA type certifications. I now try very much to buy stuff that is not from China these day but it is not obvious how to avoid it, including counterfeit PSU.

[soldar]

It is negligent and unsafe to allow these on the market.
[snip]
These should be stopped at the border or banned unless they have proper UL/CSA type certifications.

Non-compliant items would not be allowed to be imported commercially but if a private person wants to buy something and import it themselves, what are you going to do? Set up a procedure to inspect every little packet and every little item on every little person who comes into the country?

You wanna buy crap you can buy crap. You want quality and warranty? Then buy from a reputable importer.

[Red Squirrel]

What I hate is that this stuff is allowed to come from China, but if someone made this here, it would not be allowed. Then to add insult to injury stuff from China is tax free and shipping is also free.   The government literally encourages to buy stuff from overseas instead of locally because of how things are setup.   If I make an electronic device here and try to sell it it needs to meet all sorts of very expensive and complicated requirements and certification, will cost a lot to ship, meanwhile China can ship all sorts of garbage here for free.  They are also protected from any liabilities if anything goes wrong which is not true for someone who sells stuff locally.

[soldar]

What I hate is that this stuff is allowed to come from China, but if someone made this here, it would not be allowed. Then to add insult to injury stuff from China is tax free and shipping is also free.   The government literally encourages to buy stuff from overseas instead of locally because of how things are setup.   If I make an electronic device here and try to sell it it needs to meet all sorts of very expensive and complicated requirements and certification, will cost a lot to ship, meanwhile China can ship all sorts of garbage here for free.  They are also protected from any liabilities if anything goes wrong which is not true for someone who sells stuff locally.

Why are you buying stuff you don't like? Why don't you just buy quality products and quit complaining?

Your post is very misinformed but I don't want to get, yet again, into the whole political China thing. You can lobby your representatives to start a commercial war against China if you feel like it.

[Nusa]

What I hate is that this stuff is allowed to come from China, but if someone made this here, it would not be allowed. Then to add insult to injury stuff from China is tax free and shipping is also free.   The government literally encourages to buy stuff from overseas instead of locally because of how things are setup.   If I make an electronic device here and try to sell it it needs to meet all sorts of very expensive and complicated requirements and certification, will cost a lot to ship, meanwhile China can ship all sorts of garbage here for free.  They are also protected from any liabilities if anything goes wrong which is not true for someone who sells stuff locally.

It's the importer of the product that's responsible for following any product quality regulations or required certifications of the destination, NOT the exporter. If you buy directly from China, YOU are the importer, and it's on YOU to make sure your contract with the seller includes meeting quality requirements. And if you happen to be a local reseller, YOU may be the one they'll come after if your product burns down someones house.

[richnormand]

@soldar
"Non-compliant items would not be allowed to be imported " Period.
Once reported the shipper should be banned. Killing people for profit attitude.
"YOU are the importer," This is NOT what I wanted to import, it is misrepresentation.
"You can lobby your representatives to start a commercial war against China if you feel like it. " Funny how many countries are leaning that way these days....

@Nusa
"It's the importer of the product that's responsible for following any product quality regulations"
Yep and this is why I pretty well stopped buying that stuff from China. Nearly impossible to return (prohibitive cost/barriers and last time they denied they ever got it) and cheating on product description seemed to be rampant.

[stevelup]

There is absolutely no defence for manufacturing a power cable with a three pole plug at both ends, but only using two core cable.

It's just indefensible. I cannot understand how anyone could argue otherwise. It is just plain dangerous.

[soldar]

Once reported the shipper should be banned.

I am not sure I understand the concept of blaming others for your own transgressions. If it is unlawful to import non-compliant articles into a country, the responsible party is the one doing the importation, not the party who made an item in another country.

Some people do not understand the concept of sovereign country. Other countries are not subject to the laws of America or Canada. They have their own laws and their own enforcement. How about that? Huh?

America wants to punish some Chinese guy in China? On what grounds does America have jurisdiction?

In any case, good luck "banning" eBay shippers. There are millions and they could burn eBay accounts one after another. You'd just have to ban international sales on eBay.

Would people at the border also be subject to strict scrutiny? When I travel to China can I bring some crap back? Or do I have to file for an importation license and prove the crap meets all relevant standards?

While we are at it we could forbid people making their own cables at home. (Have you seen some of the crimping going on? They should require a crimping license.)

Or working on their own home electrical systems or working on their own cars. People doing their own work results in worse crap than importing a bad cable from China.

Good luck prohibiting stupidity.

[Red Squirrel]

What I hate is that this stuff is allowed to come from China, but if someone made this here, it would not be allowed. Then to add insult to injury stuff from China is tax free and shipping is also free.   The government literally encourages to buy stuff from overseas instead of locally because of how things are setup.   If I make an electronic device here and try to sell it it needs to meet all sorts of very expensive and complicated requirements and certification, will cost a lot to ship, meanwhile China can ship all sorts of garbage here for free.  They are also protected from any liabilities if anything goes wrong which is not true for someone who sells stuff locally.

Why are you buying stuff you don't like? Why don't you just buy quality products and quit complaining?

Your post is very misinformed but I don't want to get, yet again, into the whole political China thing. You can lobby your representatives to start a commercial war against China if you feel like it.

How am I suppose to know those details until I have the item in hand?   I would gladly buy products made here that are of good quality if I could, but almost everything is made in China and quality is usually questionable even on the stuff found in local stores, which will tend to be slightly higher quality than what you find online.   You really have to go out of your way to try to find something that is true good quality, you won't find it in a normal store either.   Of course it really depends on the product, some products will be easier to find of good quality than others.  Vehicles for example will generally use decent quality parts and meet standards.  But if you need some oddball device sometimes you don't even have a choice and have to order on ebay or amazon because it's not something common enough.

[Red Squirrel]

What I hate is that this stuff is allowed to come from China, but if someone made this here, it would not be allowed. Then to add insult to injury stuff from China is tax free and shipping is also free.   The government literally encourages to buy stuff from overseas instead of locally because of how things are setup.   If I make an electronic device here and try to sell it it needs to meet all sorts of very expensive and complicated requirements and certification, will cost a lot to ship, meanwhile China can ship all sorts of garbage here for free.  They are also protected from any liabilities if anything goes wrong which is not true for someone who sells stuff locally.

It's the importer of the product that's responsible for following any product quality regulations or required certifications of the destination, NOT the exporter. If you buy directly from China, YOU are the importer, and it's on YOU to make sure your contract with the seller includes meeting quality requirements. And if you happen to be a local reseller, YOU may be the one they'll come after if your product burns down someones house.

Which is crazy that it works that way.  It should go on the one who makes it.   It only seems to apply to china though, because if you try to make a product here and sell it here, nobody will let you unless it meets all the safety standards.  But someone from China can export it here and then even drop the liability on me to add insult to injury.   The system is designed to discourage local manufacturing.

[soldar]

How am I suppose to know those details until I have the item in hand?   I would gladly buy products made here that are of good quality if I could, but almost everything is made in China and quality is usually questionable even on the stuff found in local stores, which will tend to be slightly higher quality than what you find online.   You really have to go out of your way to try to find something that is true good quality, you won't find it in a normal store either.   Of course it really depends on the product, some products will be easier to find of good quality than others.  Vehicles for example will generally use decent quality parts and meet standards.  But if you need some oddball device sometimes you don't even have a choice and have to order on ebay or amazon because it's not something common enough.

As the importer of the product you are supposeD to know what you are importing. You are shifting your own responsibility to others. If you buy bad stuff locally you have rights as a consumer which you do not have when you buy direct from China.

Still, did you try to return it? Because I am sure eBay would allow you to return such a faulty item. If you did not return it I am guessing you were satisfied with your purchase.

When you buy from an importer it is the importer's responsibility to make sure the imported items meet all requirements. Often they can be fooled too but they take the hit as a business, not the final consumer.

Which is crazy that it works that way.  It should go on the one who makes it.   It only seems to apply to china though, because if you try to make a product here and sell it here, nobody will let you unless it meets all the safety standards.  But someone from China can export it here and then even drop the liability on me to add insult to injury.   The system is designed to discourage local manufacturing.

You are just repeating stupid, ignorant rants. No. What you are saying is NOT true. An importer is just as responsible as a manufacturer for the products complying with all regulations. Please stop repeating ignorant, hateful misinformation.

People in a position of privilege blaming others worse off for their perceived problems. China is not the cause of your problems. Stop whining. If you don't like Chinese goods then just don't buy them but quit whining and saying you are forced to buy them because you can't find alternatives.

You can buy similar products at your local computer store or on Amazon, etc. It will cost more because they are responsible for the quality of the product. You just want the quality assurance without paying for it. No, you want something then you pay for it. But you can't expect to check into a Motel 6 and get the service and amenities of a five star hotel. It doesn't work that way.

A merchant has to warranty the products he sells comply with certain standards, are fit for purpose, etc. Whether the products are imported from China, imported from France, or made around the corner, is totally irrelevant. Let us just stop spreading misinformation that there is somehow a conspiracy to favor China.

[SilverSolder]

What I hate is that this stuff is allowed to come from China, but if someone made this here, it would not be allowed. Then to add insult to injury stuff from China is tax free and shipping is also free.   The government literally encourages to buy stuff from overseas instead of locally because of how things are setup.   If I make an electronic device here and try to sell it it needs to meet all sorts of very expensive and complicated requirements and certification, will cost a lot to ship, meanwhile China can ship all sorts of garbage here for free.  They are also protected from any liabilities if anything goes wrong which is not true for someone who sells stuff locally.

It's the importer of the product that's responsible for following any product quality regulations or required certifications of the destination, NOT the exporter. If you buy directly from China, YOU are the importer, and it's on YOU to make sure your contract with the seller includes meeting quality requirements. And if you happen to be a local reseller, YOU may be the one they'll come after if your product burns down someones house.

Which is crazy that it works that way.  It should go on the one who makes it.   It only seems to apply to china though, because if you try to make a product here and sell it here, nobody will let you unless it meets all the safety standards.  But someone from China can export it here and then even drop the liability on me to add insult to injury.   The system is designed to discourage local manufacturing.

It is really, really difficult to make consumer goods at a low price point, and still make money off it.   All retail stores / distribution chains in Western countries add enormous markups to all products in order to cover costs including wages, taxes, real estate, medical insurance, etc. etc. as well as skimming a profit.   The "cut" that the manufacturer gets is typically only a minor part of the retail price.

The "secret" of China is based on not having all those costs loading their products, so they can sell stuff at prices much closer to the real cost of manufacturing.   We can't resist the bargains...  but they come at the cost of hollowing out our own societies which depend on being able to load retail prices with extraneous costs.

[Kleinstein]

Buying such stuff from China without proper UL or similar testing is a risk. Without the proper marks (or if in doubt the marks a legit)  one has to essentially test such item before use. If enough people would do that and complain about it chances are there would be less crap coming in. With a unsafe item this may not need to actually send them back - just a complaint / case at ebay or similar should be  all it takes.
Usually it is the importer who is to blame, either for stupidity or intentionally importing unsafe goods. In this case the power supply without any marks should be a warning not to use it untested.

A cable marked 3x0.5mm² with 3 pole plugs and actually having only 2 wires and no ground connection should be illegal even by Chinese standards.

The stupid thing is that shipping from China (or similar) is so cheap, partially because of old postal treaties. The actual costs tend to be much higher, for transport inside the US/Canada alone. Higher (more reasonable) transport costs could already reduce the odd direct imports of cheap items by users. So maybe Mr Trump should think about some minimum $5 customs fee for such packages instead of tariffs on other goods.

At least in Germany customs sometimes has a good look at imported products - if it's know unsafe or missing requited markings as the CE label they sometimes actually stop things coming in, even if just private buys.  This is a reason why you sometimes find notes that a certain product does not ship to Germany - that usually has a reason. So even in another country I would think twice before getting such items.

[soldar]

The stupid thing is that shipping from China (or similar) is so cheap, partially because of old postal treaties.

Um, no. ePacket is something negotiated and implemented relatively recently by China with 39 different countries.

https://magenticians.com/what-is-epacket-shipping/
https://epacketexpress.com/epacket-shipping-countries-how-long/
https://www.quora.com/What-is-an-ePacket-delivery-from-China
https://www.oberlo.com/blog/what-is-epacket-delivery

Fast, cheap and efficient shipping is something crucial for commerce and economic prosperity. In America Fedex, UPS, etc. work very well. China has recognized this and is doing its part to promote fast and efficient shipping. In the meanwhile the EU is a mess in this respect. And the same can be said about payments and banking.

[soldar]

It is really, really difficult to make consumer goods at a low price point, and still make money off it.   All retail stores / distribution chains in Western countries add enormous markups to all products in order to cover costs including wages, taxes, real estate, medical insurance, etc. etc. as well as skimming a profit.   The "cut" that the manufacturer gets is typically only a minor part of the retail price.

The "secret" of China is based on not having all those costs loading their products, so they can sell stuff at prices much closer to the real cost of manufacturing.   We can't resist the bargains...  but they come at the cost of hollowing out our own societies which depend on being able to load retail prices with extraneous costs.

From manufacturing to distribution to retailing to the consumer the economy is much more complex than most people realize. It is easy for the simplistic, ignorant and politicians to identify easy solutions to very complex situations.

I never get tired of quoting H. L. Mencken

For every complex human problem, there is a solution that is neat, simple and wrong.

China and other developing countries have an advantage in manufacturing because of lower labor costs. But manufacturing is only a part of the cost of the final product sold to the consumer. Distribution and retailing are areas where America and Europe are far ahead of China. You can often buy a pair of made in China sneakers cheaper in America than in China precisely because distribution and retailing are much more inefficient in China. The big importers and distributors in America and Europe have this down to a science.

Apple products are made in China but the value added in China is minimal. Most of the price paid by the consumer does not go to China, it goes to America. Development, design, distribution, etc.

Another issue, as you mention, is taxes and other compulsory costs. We all want to enjoy the benefits of the welfare state but for that the State has to collect taxes.

It is just easy to blame China, or Germany or a certain company. People mostly are talking out of their asses and have not the slightest clue about the issues.

In Spain we have LIDL stores, a large German company and a lot of people like to bitch and complain. The issue seems to be a generic "prices are too high, they are taking advantage of us".

One guy was complaining that they sold a certain item cheaper in Germany than in Spain, which he said was unfair. I reminded him that "freedom" means they do not have any obligation to offer the consumer any product at any price. They offer what they think will work for them and you as a consumer are free to take it or leave it.

I suggested that if Lidl is charging more in Spain it may be because they incur higher costs in Spain. Rentals, taxes, energy, etc. who knows. They should be free to run their business as they see fit and we, as consumers, are not entitled to demand they set their prices to our satisfaction.

I get really tired of people whining and moaning that the world is a bad place because of some company, some people or some country. No, we live in the best world that ever existed. We have products and services at our disposal that were unthinkable just a few decades back. And instead of appreciating it and being grateful we bitch because we are afraid poorer people might want a fairer share of the pie.

[SilverSolder]

Take, for example, the cost of mail/package delivery, as @Kleinstein mentioned.   In the West, we load the price of sending a package with a lot of extras that are not related to the actual underlying cost of delivery.  Our mail services are priced as high as possible, to the point just before too many people stop using the service and hire their own courier instead.  This is why it costs USD20+ to send a small packet to China, but less than a dollar to send it the other way. 

We can safely assume that out of the $20 you pay to send something to China, less than $1 of that is actually paid to the Chinese postal service based on the international agreements...

It is not realistic for any of us in the West to compete with that,  the playing field just isn't level.  So, we have to hide behind customs walls,  quotas, rules of origin, quality conditions imposed by the importing country on the exporting countries (as we are discussing in this thread), sanitary and phytosanitary conditions,  packaging conditions,  labeling conditions....  and so on!

[soldar]

I don't know much about the issue but it could well be that ePacket is subsidized because I find it hard to see how shipping could be so low.

And shipping inside the USA, by UPS, Amazon, Fedex, etc. I find quite efficient and is quite cheap for big accounts.

Inside Europe it is the worst of both worlds: complicated, inefficient and expensive. Same thing with payments and banking. These are things that need to be resolved.

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah there is subsidies for epackets from China.   Some kind of agreement basically to make it free.  It's not right though, if anything there should be subsidies for LOCAL products to encourage makers and local manufacturing, but the government does not want any of that.

It's also not worthwhile returning something you bought from China because it will cost you more to ship it than what you paid for it.  Heck the majority of people who do buy won't even know there is anything wrong with the product.  Most people don't take anything apart they just buy it and use it. We are kind of an exception to that rule.   The free shipping, and the fact that they don't need to follow any safety standards, only works 1 way.  If you wanted to sell to China (or any country) not only would the shipping be high but your products would need to meet any standards they may have or it would get stopped at the border.  The whole system is designed so that China is always at an advantage and it's flooding the market with dangerous goods.

[SilverSolder]

The postal rates are agreed via the Universal Postal Union - the third oldest international organization and run by the UN these days.

On the face of it, the UPU has failed to respond quickly enough to the development of cross border e-commerce.  The United States have resigned from the UPU effective October 17, 2019...   so we can expect significant postage increases from China to USA are already in the pipeline (in addition to the tariffs).  An era is probably coming to an end...

[Nusa]

The postal rates are agreed via the Universal Postal Union - the third oldest international organization and run by the UN these days.

On the face of it, the UPU has failed to respond quickly enough to the development of cross border e-commerce.  The United States have resigned from the UPU effective October 17, 2019...   so we can expect significant postage increases from China to USA are already in the pipeline (in addition to the tariffs).  An era is probably coming to an end...

That remains to be seen. This is another example of Trump-style international negotiations, which comes down to change the rules or we hit the highway. And when it comes to actually hitting the highway, he backs off at the last minute at least half the time, while simultaneously declaring victory in some lame fashion. A lot of the unintended consequences are very easy to see coming, such as disrupted mail and packages to overseas troops this Xmas, and ongoing economic issues throughout an election year.

But IF it does come to pass, expect USPS international mail to and from EVERY country to get more expensive, since they'll no longer be able to use the UPU infrastructure for postal services, and will need their own parallel system. Never mind requiring independent agreements with every country they deliver to, assuming they're willing to deal at all. The alternative services (Fedex, UPS, etc) will be in hog heaven, of course, since they have their own networks. The military will likely end up having to handle APO and FPO addressed mail themselves, but expect lots of problems there as they get up to speed.

And yes, this branch of the subject has the potential to get very political. I'd advise sticking to facts in evidence if you discuss it.

[soldar]

The postal rates are agreed via the Universal Postal Union - the third oldest international organization and run by the UN these days.

On the face of it, the UPU has failed to respond quickly enough to the development of cross border e-commerce.  The United States have resigned from the UPU effective October 17, 2019...   so we can expect significant postage increases from China to USA are already in the pipeline (in addition to the tariffs).  An era is probably coming to an end...

I don't understand this. Can you provide some cites? Because it seems ePacket was negotiated and agreed by China and the USA. Why would the USA pull out of the ePacket agreement? I am not saying they wouldn't behave erratically, unpredictably, arbitrarily and capriciously, because that seems to be the order of the day. I am just saying I have not heard anything about America withdrawing from the ePacket agreement. Any cites?

ETA: Found some news myself:
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/trump-changes-terminal-dues-and-epacket-rates/573337/
https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2019/1/1547085738.html