FACEBOOK - CAN it be tamed ... and useful ?

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Facebook.

It is a social media phenomenon that sends chills down the spine of many - and I include myself in that audience.  The natural reaction is to avoid it like the plague - but I have found that to be a little bit of an overreaction (not by much, I will grant you).

I broke my stance and created a FB account and followed the Mars Curiosity rover when it began its journey to the red planet.  This was because the more interesting bits of news appeared there, having been filtered by someone else.  It saved me time keeping up - and if I wanted to go more in depth of a topic, I could go through the NASA site or maybe some news articles.

In setting up my account, I went through and changed all the privacy and security settings to make myself as invisible as possible.  It didn't take long and I can honestly say I've had absolutely NO cause to regret joining.

Suffice to say, I also don't post anything about what I'm doing, where I am or what I'm interested in - and that's the thing... If you don't supply any information, nobody will know anything.  It's that simple.


HOW IT CAN BE USEFUL....

OK.  Here's the "Why has he done this?"

Currently, Keysight (formerly Agilent, formerly HP) is running a competition where a 6000 X-series high end oscilloscope is on offer and the winner will be decided by a public vote - and votes can only be cast if you have a Facebook account.

We have a couple of members here who have entered.  Unfortunately only one member appears to be in the serious running for the prize.  He is Carlos A. on the voting page:
http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2677452&id=2677452

IMHO, he is one of only a couple of the entrants that will really use the features this scope offers (and actually NEEDS them) and is the only one with a chance of winning - but, please use your own judgement.

If you have a Facebook account - I would like to encourage you to have a look and vote.  If you have friends, family, neighbours or work colleagues that you could invite to participate, then I would also suggest you ask.

If you don't have a Facebook account, but would like to support Carlos A. - then you can easily set one up to vote, with minimal risk and no obligation to ever get involved in the dark side.


Here's some key facts:
 * You can vote 3 times in one day.  (You can vote for the same person all 3 times if you want.)
 * Voting will be open until the 15th April
 * The 'day' will reset at midnight MST

So, I encourage you to think about this and get behind one of our members...

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Just found this:

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I understand how you feel.  I felt the same but what I found was the only risks come from opening up to the world.  I just created my little cocoon and stick to the topics I'm interested in.

Works for me - and occasionally it can do some good, such as helping out a member.

[Kilrah]

Must be the age difference, but I don't see what the problem is or why some are paranoid about online presence. FB isn't really different from real life besides the width of the audience, what you want to show or are OK with others seeing you post or comment on, what you want to keep private you don't.
You'll go have a drink with friends and talk about your feelings, your interests, the thing you did, liked or read about last week, comment on what they talk about etc... it's exactly the same on FB, and it's just life.

In setting up my account, I went through and changed all the privacy and security settings to make myself as invisible as possible. 
[...]
Suffice to say, I also don't post anything about what I'm doing, where I am or what I'm interested in - and that's the thing... If you don't supply any information, nobody will know anything.  It's that simple.

Spinning things the other way I see that as the equivalent of locking yourself up in your property and stop seeing anybody, not allowing anyone in, and only sometimes going out at night and hiding behind a bush to peek at what's happening in your neighbor's garden through a hole in the leaves...

[Mechanical Menace]

You'll go have a drink with friends and talk about your feelings,

Just nope. That's just being self indulgent.

your interests, the thing you did, liked or read about last week

If they ask yes, I don't just start telling them.

Facebook is ok for the messenger though.

[Brumby]

FB isn't really different from real life besides the width of the audience

Not really true.  Once it's in the digital realm, it can go a lot further than you might want - even the stuff you felt comfortable sharing.  Chatting with people face to face is far more unlikely to travel the world at the speed of thought.

Spinning things the other way I see that as the equivalent of locking yourself up in your property and stop seeing anybody, not allowing anyone in, and only sometimes going out at night and hiding behind a bush to peek at what's happening in your neighbor's garden through a hole in the leaves...

Completely wrong.

Just because I don't choose to follow your thinking on matters does NOT mean I live in complete isolation.  When it comes to my local activities, I simply choose to have a minimist presence on FB and a real one with the real world.  If I want to check out my neighbour';s garden, I'll walk out the front door and have a look.  Might even strike up a conversation.  You can also stop and smell the roses .... literally.

I compartmentalize FB - not my life.

[Kilrah]

As I understand it you now get to see what they want you to see in order to make more money.

Certainly to some extent yes, but IMO many people overestimate that. They have a little bit of leeway, but they aren't stupid either and are aware that their users are their only resource, and the second they would lose the feeling of a sufficiently direct link between their feed and their postings and actions their death would be proclaimed.

I waste enough time on this forum I can do without social media helping me waste even more.

Time enjoyed isn't time wasted, if you're on here there's a good reason, and that is that you enjoy it more than whatever else you think you should be doing. What's wrong with that?

One further point on privacy. Yes you can control what you share with others but FB et al still collect massive amounts of data on their users to the extent that they know things about you you can't conceive. All they have to do is aggregate the bits of data and they know more about you than your mother knows. Unlike your analogy about peeking through the neighbours fence, if you peek on the Internet then it is logged and remembered somewhere.

Well, I for one believe ANYTHING we do is logged if not more than that regardless of online or offline - but that kind of discussion goes way beyond the scope of such a thread

[tooki]

Must be the age difference, but I don't see what the problem is or why some are paranoid about online presence.

It's got nothing to do with age, as many older people embrace Facebook, and many kids now don't want it because they perceive it as an "old people" social network.

In my experience, cultural values on privacy make a far bigger difference. Europeans worry about privacy infinitely more than Americans, as evidenced by the difference between their respective privacy laws.

To Americans, the data Facebook collects is crumbs; the real evil is credit reporting agencies, which have the power to ruin your life. (Europeans don't know that in USA, it's common for employers to run a credit check on a prospective hire, the reasoning being that a highly indebted* person would be more likely to steal, and thus will not be given the job. So perversely, he people who need the money the most are less likely to get the job. Just one example of credit reporting agencies being used for purposes beyond extending credit.) Similar companies collect other personal information to sell. Compared to them, Facebook is quite modest, and is very open about what it does.

* As an aside, I was like most people, assuming that most Americans with debt (other than mortgages for homes, which don't count as "bad" debt) were simply irresponsible people who spent frivolously -- until I read about 10 years ago that 62% of people who file for bankruptcy in USA were in debt simply because of medical issues. One major illness like cancer and you lose your job (no protections for this), still have bills to pay, and then get a hospital bill for the $150K balance that insurance won't pay for because it's capped at $300K. So then people end up putting their food and rent on credit cards because it's that or be homeless and starve. Nearly all Americans earn too little to be able to set aside a 6-digit emergency fund (or even a 5 digit one), so it takes very little to trigger cascading financial ruin.

[Kilrah]

* As an aside, I was like most people, assuming that most Americans with debt (other than mortgages for homes, which don't count as "bad" debt) were simply irresponsible people who spent frivolously -- until I read about 10 years ago that 62% of people who file for bankruptcy in USA were in debt simply because of medical issues.

Yep, and makes you wonder how that many were not interested in trying to change that

[MarvinTheMartian]

I'm in the same school as Brumby and Wilfred - I've never been interested in FB and like they say, even if you sign up and hide everything, you still have to provide your name and DOB! 

Why should I volunteer such info to be stored by FB and end up who-knows-where in 10 years time (I suppose you can put in fictitious details but I assume that is against the FB 'rules')? No thanks. 

If anyone wants to join I have no problem with their choice, it's just not for me.

But I don't want to join just to enter some competition or support someone by voting (as much as they might deserve it  - sorry Carlos) - they are asking me to forgo some of my privacy.

It's the same if a friend/family member posts something on FB showing a picture of myself in a group or making some comment on what I do - unless they tell me or ask me if it is OK, I have no control over it! Bugger!

Kilrah is also right that our privacy is being compromised in the real world as well and not just the internet (ie CCTVs/face recognition all over the place)

But then, maybe I'm just an old bastard who dreams of the good old days when things were simpler and life was good (am I'm getting dementia?)

Edit: I think I'm in danger of becoming an internet troll - please help me someone!!!! 

Anonymity is a dangerous thing!   

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Understandable.

But if you know someone who does have FB ... get them to vote.  It's a far safer thing to do than anything else with social media.

[ez24]

MarvinTheMartian

Would you take a UBER car ?

Real scary stuff with them

[MarvinTheMartian]

MarvinTheMartian

Would you take a UBER car ?

Real scary stuff with them

Probably not - don't they go around shooting people over there? 

[rdl]

...
Currently, Keysight (formerly Agilent, formerly HP) is running a competition where a 6000 X-series high end oscilloscope is on offer and the winner will be decided by a public vote - and votes can only be cast if you have a Facebook account.
...

Not that it will make any difference or that anyone employed by them will care, but because of this I will probably never purchase another Keysight product.

[andtfoot]

I mostly use FB as an observer, or in private groups.
I've found it can be handy to find out what's happening in town (events, gigs, etc), and finding contacts (e.g. bands looking for musicians) that I wouldn't otherwise meet.
I'm generally quite introverted, so it's easy for me to avoid posting too much about myself anyway.

[MarvinTheMartian]

But if you know someone who does have FB ... get them to vote.  It's a far safer thing to do than anything else with social media.

Would if I knew someone who uses it and that I felt comfortable asking. 

[Brumby]

But if you know someone who does have FB ... get them to vote.  It's a far safer thing to do than anything else with social media.

Would if I knew someone who uses it and that I felt comfortable asking. 

Well, yes, that goes without saying - but maybe I should have said it anyway.

[Kilrah]

Ironically once you're on social media this stops being a problem as you don't need to ask anymore, you post something, others see it, and if they like it they'll spread it themselves.

Moves from the slow and embarassing polling system to a much more efficient signalling paradigm

[Kilrah]

even if you sign up and hide everything, you still have to provide your name and DOB! 

I'm not that old but even then when I was a kid it was common to participate to mail in contests and other things that asked for much more personal info than FB does 
Everytime you place an online order you give more, and more sensitive info to the seller.

Edit: I think I'm in danger of becoming an internet troll - please help me someone!!!! 

Anonymity is a dangerous thing!

Nah, you just have have an opinion and perfetly good reasons for them. Nothing wrong, it's just a discussion we could have around a table with some beers 

[rrinker]

 Can it be tamed? Of course - simply do not post things you wouldn't mind the whole world seeing. I read lots of posts by others, but I rarely post anything. Heck, my profile picture, you can't even really see me, it's a photo of me in the cab of a locomotive from 7 years ago - unlike some people who seem to change their profile pic on a weekly or even daily basis. I think I changed mine once - from none to the one that's there now. I posted a picture of my younger son the day he was born, as part of a birthday message to him. Oh no, I didn't strip out any info that might be in the picture. But you know what? The hospital it was taken in doesn't even exist any more, and none of my family lives anywhere near that area, so what's going to happen? Great, so you know I took the picture with a crappy early Kodak point and shoot digital cam, and you can go to the location where it was taken. Which gets you what? I think there's an office complex on the site now. Assuming it actually does still have exif info embedded, it's a 21 year old photo that is not the original, back then I didn't even think to keep an archive of the original photos downloaded from the camera, I only saved the resized ones. Yeah, probably a mistake, but storage was not cheap in those days - now I have a server with 13TB of disk in it and I do save all the originals.

[Brumby]

Can it be tamed? Of course - simply do not post things you wouldn't mind the whole world seeing.

That's been my philosophy... but maybe I take that to the extreme - by posting nothing. 

[rdl]

Anybody that thinks privacy can be had by simply not posting or not willfully providing information needs to use Firefox for a while with Ghostery and Self Destructing Cookies installed. You are being watched, actively monitored and tracked practically everywhere you go on the internet.

[Porch]

Can it be tamed? Of course - simply do not post things you wouldn't mind the whole world seeing. I read lots of posts by others, but I rarely post anything. Heck, my profile picture, you can't even really see me, it's a photo of me in the cab of a locomotive from 7 years ago - unlike some people who seem to change their profile pic on a weekly or even daily basis. I think I changed mine once - from none to the one that's there now. I posted a picture of my younger son the day he was born, as part of a birthday message to him. Oh no, I didn't strip out any info that might be in the picture. But you know what? The hospital it was taken in doesn't even exist any more, and none of my family lives anywhere near that area, so what's going to happen? Great, so you know I took the picture with a crappy early Kodak point and shoot digital cam, and you can go to the location where it was taken. Which gets you what? I think there's an office complex on the site now. Assuming it actually does still have exif info embedded, it's a 21 year old photo that is not the original, back then I didn't even think to keep an archive of the original photos downloaded from the camera, I only saved the resized ones. Yeah, probably a mistake, but storage was not cheap in those days - now I have a server with 13TB of disk in it and I do save all the originals.

Most of the Social Security Numbers (in the US) are generated by the birth date and location of birth. If you know those two, then the rest of the numbers are a few guesses away.

[rx8pilot]

I think the danger of Facebook and any other internet social system is for the people that do not understand how to behave. They behave as though it is a fake virtual society and do not consider that it is permanent and made of real people connected by a network. Those are the people that announce they are going out of town for a month and they are so bummed to leave their beloved house on 123 Elm Street for that long.

People talk about their various health issues freely, family problems, bad relationships, etc. and then complain that everyone knows all of this shit. WTF? For things that are private, do not post them on the internet. For things that are very private, do not have them on a computer at all - (ie, sex tapes, passwords, etc.)

I use FB very very general personal communication and to maintain an ability for various relatives and friends to be able to find me for weddings, reunions, and the like. Professionally, it is a great resource for groups to share ideas and happenings. My profile has absolutely no information that I would not share with anyone else in public. It only takes a little common sense and FB is a useful digital feature of the digital world we live in.

[SeanB]

Sean, you have 43 new notifications, 1 poke and 6 friend requests

I have a profile picture, even though I deliberately did not set one, but friends tagged me enough times that the pic was added automatically.

Ghostery blocks almost all FB domains, and ABP the same, along with Noscript doing the same for the scripts that are called as third party requests. Requestpolicy does the same, and I am almost at the point of editing Hosts further to make all of FB as part of the lovely ip block 127.0.0.0 if I get even more annoyed.

Carlos, i would vote for you, but I really do not want to use FB. It is just too intrusive all over, and unlike the Alphabet collective you do not know how they get the $97 value ARPU figure they say. At least the Borg collective is upfront about what they want, advertising info in return for providing you with an indexable web that they can use to target ads to you.

That is why at work I use a separate computer for private web browsing, keeping the work side separate and using a mobile data connection for stuff I have at home that I want to use at work. Work computer I get ads ( aside from an IT imposed blacklist that does a lot of trimming of the worst ones) and they are not related to anything aside from general ones to what I do at home.

Not being paranoid, I did deliberately log into FB once this year............