EU/UK mains wiring colours and other stuff

[Deathwish]

Well first of all I want to know why the UK changed the color of mains wiring to blue and brown from black and red. My brain is STILL hard wired to think Red and Black. Likewise why is it that all the equipment I buy or DC stuff is still in Red and Black wires on the power side of things, even the DMM input leads are thus. Why did they not change everything to brown and blue !. Most annoying.

Next, I notice that these PSU's that are on sale have a green output on them yet can I find a black/green/red triple lead to connect to anything, no. Only the usual red and black with croc clips and banana plugs on. Do manufacturers not think people use all three outputs and will thus want leads to fit.

I am sure I will find other things to moan about later.

[rolycat]

Well first of all I want to know why the UK changed the color of mains wiring to blue and brown from black and red. My brain is STILL hard wired to think Red and Black. Likewise why is it that all the equipment I buy or DC stuff is still in Red and Black wires on the power side of things, even the DMM input leads are thus. Why did they not change everything to brown and blue !. Most annoying.

Because red and black denote DC positive and negative, whereas brown and blue denote AC live and neutral.

UK flexible mains wiring has used brown and blue since the 1960s - how long has this been bugging you? 

Next, I notice that these PSU's that are on sale have a green output on them yet can I find a black/green/red triple lead to connect to anything, no. Only the usual red and black with croc clips and banana plugs on. Do manufacturers not think people use all three outputs and will thus want leads to fit.

It's unusual to require a separate earth/ground connection to a circuit - it's more common to short the green earth connection to either black or red at the PSU if you require a positive or negative grounded supply. A third wire would be as useful as a third leg - sometimes handy (or leggy?), but usually it would just get in the way.

I am sure I will find other things to moan about later.

Well, you could moan about the fact that there are no standard colours for DC supplies with both positive and negative outputs and a common terminal.

[Deathwish]

UK flexible mains wiring has used brown and blue since the 1960s - how long has this been bugging you? 

Since the early 70's when i got a shock as a kid ..... 

It's unusual to require a separate earth/ground connection to a circuit - it's more common to short the green earth connection to either black or red at the PSU if you require a positive or negative grounded supply. A third wire would be as useful as a third leg - sometimes handy (or leggy?), but usually it would just get in the way.

I still want one just to be awkward.

Well, you could moan about the fact that there are no standard colours for DC supplies with both positive and negative outputs and a common terminal.

consider it in the pipeline. I want the world my way, or there will be big trouble in little UK. I aim to take over the world.

[Deathwish]

Incidentally, I demand that all DMM's used on mains supplies come with a set of probes in Brown and Blue just to be a tard and that they all come with a 10A fuse in the end of the lead for those who buy DMM's without fuses on board.

[sync]

Incidentally, I demand that all DMM's used on mains supplies come with a set of probes in Brown and Blue just to be a tard and that they all come with a 10A fuse in the end of the lead for those who buy DMM's without fuses on board.

Also all DMMs used on mains should have 3 phase inputs.

[madires]

Incidentally, I demand that all DMM's used on mains supplies come with a set of probes in Brown and Blue just to be a tard and that they all come with a 10A fuse in the end of the lead for those who buy DMM's without fuses on board.

Also all DMMs used on mains should have 3 phase inputs.

And a CEE socket to connect the test leads 

[Howardlong]

The story I heard decades ago was that it was a colour blindness thing, blue and brown are apparently more easily distinguishable for the general populous.

As a kid in the early 70s I did find it difficult to remember, those were the days when we wired our own plugs. I doubt most kids would have a clue how to wire a plug nowadays with pre-moulded plugs being the norm, in fact I think it may even be illegal to sell a mains powered unit these days in the EU without a pre-fitted plug.

[tautech]

I am sure I will find other things to moan about later.

You sure will, USA AC mains are black and white. 
Get you head around that..... but of course its just what you are used to.

We in NZ were red and black for mains years ago, now brown and blue, however TPS cabling that sparkies install is still red, black and green, go figure that.
Maybe they don't want to confuse the sparkies. 

[rolycat]

I am sure I will find other things to moan about later.

You sure will, USA AC mains are black and white. 

And black is live

Of course, all that nonsense will go away once Deathwish achieves world domination.

[Delta]

It was to "harmonise" us with the EU.  They also made us go from nice, bright, primary colours (red yellow and blue, with black for neutral) for three phase, to brown gray and black(!) with blue for neutral.  RYB were easily identifiable in a dark owered down panel, brown gray and black, not so.

[Deathwish]

Hi Tautech. hope its a nice day where you are.

Black and white are closer to Red and Black so I could probably deal with that.

I know it is illegal to install anything mains without a PAT test here in the UK now, I went ahead and installed a power shower. They had re-wired the house some weeks before and i was adamant that it was going in regardless at no further cost to me just for a test, it wasn't rocket science to add a new fuse to the consumer board etc. When they came round later to check it all and sign it off they questioned it but I gave them some blarney about it being an old installation, I got a dodgy look but no more said.

[Mechanical Menace]

The story I heard decades ago was that it was a colour blindness thing, blue and brown are apparently more easily distinguishable for the general populous.

That's what I was taught.

As a kid in the early 70s I did find it difficult to remember, those were the days when we wired our own plugs.

We were still taught how to wire a plug etc when I was at school, and it was  recapped more than once. I could ask my little brother if they still are.

[tautech]

Hi Tautech. hope its a nice day where you are.

Brilliant, light frost to start and a beauty fine day, topped off with the knowledge you are still sucking air. 

[Deathwish]

Hi Tautech. hope its a nice day where you are.

Brilliant, light frost to start and a beauty fine day, topped off with the knowledge you are still sucking air. 

I suck at doing anything electronic. Math is not a strong point so I will never design anything or take a degree in it. But I try, in fact I have been told by a number of women i am very trying including my two daughters living in Oz. Go figure 

[tautech]

Hi Tautech. hope its a nice day where you are.

Brilliant, light frost to start and a beauty fine day, topped off with the knowledge you are still sucking air. 

I suck at doing anything electronic. Math is not a strong point so I will never design anything or take a degree in it. But I try, in fact I have been told by a number of women i am very trying including my two daughters living in Oz. Go figure 

Don't worry, very few understand. 

[Deathwish]

I'm not, i will only die once or twice then it is final and I refuse to come back because lets face it, if you keep failing whats the point, I must be the only guy who needed a TomTom sat nav to get around a service sheet.

[Deathwish]

In fact I am still wondering why it hurts when i lick the end of the soldering iron to clean it . I will win though 

[tautech]

In fact I am still wondering why it hurts when i lick the end of the soldering iron to clean it . I will win though 

Only the Welsh. 
    

[Deathwish]

I am an Englishman in a foreign land  ,  why am i here , i have no idea, I just figured I would look more intelligent. Seems i was wrong.

[madires]

It was to "harmonise" us with the EU.  They also made us go from nice, bright, primary colours (red yellow and blue, with black for neutral) for three phase, to brown gray and black(!) with blue for neutral.  RYB were easily identifiable in a dark owered down panel, brown gray and black, not so.

Over here 3-phase is black, brown and black, and since 2006 brown, black and grey for L1-3. Single phase is black or brown (L, brown since 2006), blue (N) and green-yellow (PE). Very old wirings got black (L), blue (N) and red (PE) or black (L), grey (N) and red (PE). Cables with 4 wires for switched stuff, like lights, got black (L), bown or grey (switched, grey since 2006), blue (N) and green-yellow (PE). Brown was also used before 2006 for L in standed wires.

[Zero999]

Well first of all I want to know why the UK changed the color of mains wiring to blue and brown from black and red. My brain is STILL hard wired to think Red and Black. Likewise why is it that all the equipment I buy or DC stuff is still in Red and Black wires on the power side of things, even the DMM input leads are thus. Why did they not change everything to brown and blue !. Most annoying.

Because red and black denote DC positive and negative, whereas brown and blue denote AC live and neutral.

No, the regulations also specify brown and blue to be used for DC  as well as AC in buildings.

Blue is always the earthed conductor, whether it be AC neutral or the side of the DC power supply connected to earth (which could be either positive or negative).

Grey is the negative conductor, if it's the unearthed side of the supply.

Brown is the positive conductor if it's the unearthed side of the supply.

http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-regulations/cable-colours/harmonised.cfm?type=pdf

It was to "harmonise" us with the EU.  They also made us go from nice, bright, primary colours (red yellow and blue, with black for neutral) for three phase, to brown gray and black(!) with blue for neutral.  RYB were easily identifiable in a dark owered down panel, brown gray and black, not so.

I've never understood the purpose of harmonisation with the EU for fixed wiring. It's fair enough if the wiring is in a product which is being exported to the EU but it's none of their business what colour the wires are inside fixed installations.

Perhaps it was done to keep the European cable manufacturers happy so they can sell to the UK?

I know it is illegal to install anything mains without a PAT test here in the UK now, I went ahead and installed a power shower.

No, it's nothing to do with PAT which is portable appliance testing and doesn't cover fixed wiring such as a shower. Fixed installations need to comply with part P.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_wiring_in_the_United_Kingdom#Legal_and_regulatory

In reality there's no real way of policing this, as long as you don't do anything dangerous then you'll be fine.

[Deathwish]

 

I like you Hero, your my kind of person, I only remember the brown / Blue wire thing because I have it in my head that the first two letters of BLue = BLack so I guess my having 2 brain cells works, both are filled at the same time digital 0 or 1 and no one make a wise crack about that being digitally 16 bits please. I know it is not

Woohooo.

[rolycat]

Well first of all I want to know why the UK changed the color of mains wiring to blue and brown from black and red. My brain is STILL hard wired to think Red and Black. Likewise why is it that all the equipment I buy or DC stuff is still in Red and Black wires on the power side of things, even the DMM input leads are thus. Why did they not change everything to brown and blue !. Most annoying.

Because red and black denote DC positive and negative, whereas brown and blue denote AC live and neutral.

No, the regulations also specify brown and blue to be used for DC  as well as AC in buildings.

I learn something new every day on this forum. However, in this case I think the regulations are nuts.

[Deathwish]

Hi Rolycat, yeah me too, problem is I have a bad memory and a learning disability but hide that part well, I did electronics over 20 years ago, learnt a lot, did TV and Vid repairs and then gave up for other things (wife and kids), I never give out advice as there are those far more able than I and even if I know the answer I wont speak up, on here that seems to be a danger because to me there are those who have professor level ability and question it. also being told as a kid you will never be anything and told to shut up and be seen not heard had its impact. I like to try and ask sensible questions that puzzle me but add some humor too it or it ends up a drudge and i then tend to walk away from it. Lots of nice people in here though so its all good.