Employees at RFID chip company going cashless with implants in hand

[cdev]

Microchip Implants for Employees? One Company Says Yes
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/technology/microchips-wisconsin-company-employees.html


What will the implications of the elimination of cash be in an era where millions are losing jobs to automation?

[ataradov]

I have not used cash for anything for many years (except for parking meters and small stuff like that). Credit cards are a beautiful invention. I don't see how this is related to jobs though.

You seriously need to chill, it will improve quality of your life.

PS: I would absolutely implant a chip if it was something universally accepted. This way I won't have to carry credit cards, badges for work, possibly even car keys. But it is not likely to happen, unfortunately.

[Alex Eisenhut]

Well, we could be in a much better world....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Theobald


But we won't, because our brains are still basically wired like animals.

[stj]

wait till the tumors start showing up.

there is no bio-compatable material that does not block RF,
the chips they stick in cats & dogs end up embeded in  tumors as the body tries to shield itself from them.

p.s. - cash is king, if you dont hold it in your posession - you dont have it.
when the banks start robbing customers to pay the shareholders because they are insolvent, or government decides they dont like you or your political views(this has happened), your money will be just mist in the cloud!

[ataradov]

wait till the tumors start showing up.

There are plenty of materials (all sorts of polymers used for prosthesis) that are already safely embedded into a human body without any problems. I don't see why there would be tumors.

But the first step would be to have this RFID universally accepted outside of the body. I'd like to carry one card for everything. Figuring out how to embed it into the body is something we'll figure out later.

when the banks start robbing customers to pay the shareholders

Well, I am a shareholder. You just got to to be a part of the system

But seriously, I don't get where this paranoia comes from. There is no point in sitting on piles of cash. It will lose its value with the rest of the system.

[Someone]

This has been going on a long time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_(human)
Almost 2 decades of predicting its the near future.

[Halcyon]

A bloke in Sydney, Australia implanted the NFC chip from his Opal Card (a card used on public transport in this state) into his hand.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-28/opal-card-meow-meow-implant-could-be-deactivated-by-authorities/8658986

(And yes, he legally changed his name to Meow-Ludo Disco Gamma Meow-Meow.)

[digsys]

GREAT NEWS !! So now, the criminal elements will go around cutting off hands. Admittedly, a little harder to hide a dozen or so hands than cards,
but someone will come up with a work around :-)

[cdev]

It seems to me that they had these chips at least twenty years ago when I was a pet owner. Also, they are not positive proof of ID because a chip could be stolen and re-implanted in somebody else.

[ataradov]

GREAT NEWS !! So now, the criminal elements will go around cutting off hands. Admittedly, a little harder to hide a dozen or so hands than cards,
but someone will come up with a work around :-)

  If the system is implemented correctly, then it would be pointless. Like stealing iPhones right now.

This will not happen for a lot of reasons, and this is not one of them.

[ataradov]

It seems to me that they had these chips at least twenty years ago when I was a pet owner. Also, they are not positive proof of ID because a chip could be stolen and re-implanted in somebody else.

Nobody proposes them as an ID here. But they can carry a link to the picture and other ID attributes.

The whole thing can be made much more secure than the stuff we have right now, but that requires effort. And right now we are repealing and replacing, no time to do stuff.

I want to reiterate one more time - embedding into the body is not a problem at all. If we can make it work with a single standalone device, we can figure out where to go from there.

[abraxa]

But seriously, I don't get where this paranoia comes from. There is no point in sitting on piles of cash. It will lose its value with the rest of the system.

I don't want to derail the thread, just provide a little insight because I find myself agreeing with cdev more often than I'd like to admit. I don't consider myself paranoid but it is undeniable that here in Europe, there are people who want all money to be 100% traceable and 100% virtual so it can not be hidden and be adjusted at will. Examples? In Sweden, you can no longer pay with cash virtually anywhere. In most western European countries, you can only pay in cash up to a certain amount (e.g. € 2,999.99 in Italy). In Cyprus, 48% of any deposit exceeding € 100,000 was levied with no way to prevent this. Here in Germany, we have a saving culture, not a loan/mortgage culture. Add this to the fact that Europe will face another 2009 crisis eventually and that several public figures have already expressed sadness over not being able to impose a negative interest on everyone's saving accounts, it's easy to see where this is all headed.

I'm not against the comfort of using electronic cash or RFID. I am however against making it a requirement and removing the alternatives because then it would take away my freedom of choice. This very freedom of choice is a problem for some people, so they try to reduce it, one step at a time.

The issue I'm having with such experiments with RFID is that it sets a certain expectation: they did it, so why can't you? I don't want to have to justify myself for *not* wanting it.

[mtdoc]

This is the government/bankers wet dream. It's not paranoia. Complete control over money is the goal. Central bankers have been pinned by the zero bound and cash impedes their ability to put negative interest rates in place (a few countries have tried). Perpetual inflation is the only way to keep the debt based ponzi scheme economy going.  Elimination of cash is already being attempted (see India) - often the first step in the effort is the elimination of large denomination bills (e.g. 500 Euro) under the guise of preventing criminal activity.

Control of money = Control of people

[ataradov]

Can you actually tell what will happen if all money are digital and traceable? What control are you talking about? Control over what?

Governments have many ways to "control" people. Not all of them are bad.

[JPortici]

Well, I am a shareholder. You just got to to be a part of the system

well... both

when the banks start robbing customers to pay the shareholders because they are insolvent

and the government taking money from your bank accounts in crisis times already happened here..
the bank thing, the national post service did that with all their emplyees accounts not many years ago,
the government thing happened 9th july 1992. it can be done per our laws. and they are discussing if it should be done regularly to pay taxes

p.s. - cash is king, if you dont hold it in your posession - you dont have it.

i agree, until someone else decides that your cash is worth nothing, so it's better to be a part of the system and have a way out too.

I am generally in favour of going cashless, but implants and that short of stuff makes me very uncomfortable, also just wait for when a stranger shaking your hand will steal your implant's data 

[mtdoc]

What control are you talking about? Control over what?

Control over the money supply. By being able to revalue money at will - you discourage saving and encourage borrowing and spending. The only way new money is created is through issuance of debt.

[ataradov]

and the government taking money from your bank accounts in crisis times already happened here..

They can do the same to your paper cash. All they need to do is print a bit more of it, and your part is worth less all of a sudden.

With digital currency and no way to make more, you have an absolute traceability of distribution. Obviously there are ways to screw it up, it does not mean we should not try.

also just wait for when a stranger shaking your hand will steal your implant's data 

This is a technologically solvable problem.

[mtdoc]

They can do the same to your paper cash. All they need to do is print a bit more of it, and your part is worth less all of a sudden.

Yes, but it's not quite so simple. For example, in the U.S., the only way new money can legally be created by the government is through the issuance of new government debt in the form of goverment bonds.

[ataradov]

Yes, but it's not quite so simple.

If we are thinking about doom and gloom scenarios, then current system can be changed for the worse.

You would need new legislation to fully switch to digital currency anyway. If you don't have enough votes or enthusiasm to do that, you can try to amend current paper money laws.

There is no reason to think that laws regarding paper money will be somehow better than laws about digital money. Both can be drafted in a good and in a bad way.

[mtdoc]

There is no reason to think that laws regarding paper money will be somehow better than laws about digital money. Both can be drafted in a good and in a bad way.

But as long as people have the option of holding paper currency, then negative interest rates cannot effectively be put in place. Holding cash is equivalent to holding T-bills at zero percent interest.

With interest rates stuck at the zero bound, the central banks become impotent to stimulate inflation.

[ataradov]

But as long as people have the option of holding paper currency, then negative interest rates cannot effectively be put in place.

You can force people to spend more by artificially inflating prices on everyday things. Start collecting new road use fee for trucks, and your groceries just went up in price.

It is obviously not as predictable as straight up chaining interest rates, but can be workable. And this happens already with the price of gas anyway.

[mtdoc]

But as long as people have the option of holding paper currency, then negative interest rates cannot effectively be put in place.

You can force people to spend more by artificially inflating prices on everyday things. Start collecting new road use fee for trucks, and your groceries just went up in price.

Sorry, but economics doesn't work that way. No one can just wish inflation into place artificially. The current fiat monetary system relies on central banks ability to stimulate inflation by control of interest rates.

This is not a controversial statement and the desire of central bankers to be able to institute negative interest rates is no secret. It's been openly proposed and trialed. But as long as people have the option of holding cash it will be ineffective.

The fact that an entirely digital currency system would also give those in power the ability to monitor and control individuals is just another benefit for those so inclined.

[jonovid]

This is the government/bankers wet dream. It's not paranoia. Complete control over money is the goal. Central bankers have been pinned by the zero bound and cash impedes their ability to put negative interest rates in place (a few countries have tried). Perpetual inflation is the only way to keep the debt based ponzi scheme economy going.  Elimination of cash is already being attempted (see India) - often the first step in the effort is the elimination of large denomination bills (e.g. 500 Euro) under the guise of preventing criminal activity.

Control of money = Control of people

where millions maybe losing souls too.

in the Christian book of Revelation 13 
It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave,
to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark,  an ID chip buy or sell things


souls of the dead that have the mark of the beast will go to hell in the next life.

I an not against technology, just against ID chips embedded into the human body as a way of id or as a type of money.

[Fred27]

I was wonder what reader / antenna they were using. Getting a decent read range on an implanted tag isn't easy.

I've got an xNT NFC implant by the way. Just for fun stuff like unlocking my garage door or PC. No tumours, no (additional) Satanism and nobody has cloned it or cut my hand off yet.

[stj]

i will probably get this thread locked now, by just saying this:

when any corporation or government directly steals from peoples accounts or invalidates cash(like in india) they should be killed.
not metaphoricly, litterally cut their throats or throw them off the roof - it's been done many times before and the country's have generally been much better afterwards.

they are supposed to serve us, when it blatantly becomes us serving them, it's time for a swift and severe change.

unless you want to be a slave working 16-18 hours a day with nothing to show for it - or just sleeping in the street.