Elon Musk is a nice chap

[vad]

Well the fun is over.  Looks like Elon met his middle eastern financial backers at the World Cup and they told him to step down as CEO.

Or he realized that Twitter under his leadership is now in hot water with mounting legal challenges. Elon can protect himself, by appointing a nominal CEO. If Musk does not step down as a director (he seems to be the sole director following dissolution of Twitter’s Board of Directors in November), the new CEO would 100% report to Musk, shielding Elon from liability while implementing his agenda.

[james_s]

I don't think he ever really wanted to be in charge in the first place. He got a bee in his bonnet and made an impulsive offer to buy the company, tried to backtrack but was forced to follow through. Then he quickly realized he has no idea how to run a software company, or how to monetize Twitter sufficiently in any way other than attracting advertisers, which so far he has done exactly the opposite. It's one of those things that looks easier until you actually try to do it.

[tom66]

I don't think he ever really wanted to be in charge in the first place. He got a bee in his bonnet and made an impulsive offer to buy the company, tried to backtrack but was forced to follow through. Then he quickly realized he has no idea how to run a software company, or how to monetize Twitter sufficiently in any way other than attracting advertisers, which so far he has done exactly the opposite. It's one of those things that looks easier until you actually try to do it.

I'm sure Elon knows many successful businesspeople who would have told him the same thing.  Elon doesn't seem like the kind of guy who surrounds himself with yes men - he's smarter than that.  It's remarkable he was able to go so far, especially with other's money, in buying Twitter but no-one thought "hang on -- does this guy know what he's doing?"

[Zero999]

I didn't like Elon when he was lauded for his efforts in energy conservation, & I still don't like him, now that the other side love him because he is supposedly "anti-woke".

I'm getting tired of the haters vs fanboys dichotomy. There are loads of people who support him on some things, yet disagree with him on others.

[james_s]

I didn't like Elon when he was lauded for his efforts in energy conservation, & I still don't like him, now that the other side love him because he is supposedly "anti-woke".

I'm getting tired of the haters vs fanboys dichotomy. There are loads of people who support him on some things, yet disagree with him on others.

Yes I don't hate him or love him. I don't think he's an idiot or a genius. He's clearly a smart guy, he's a colorful character with an amusing sense of humor and he has made some truly impressive accomplishments regardless of how much of any of them he invented directly, he also does and says some rather idiotic and impulsive things and I would certainly not want to work for him. It is weird to me that so many people seem to either worship the ground he walks on and heap praise on anything he does, or absolutely loathe him and minimize anything he has accomplished.

[vk6zgo]

I didn't like Elon when he was lauded for his efforts in energy conservation, & I still don't like him, now that the other side love him because he is supposedly "anti-woke".

I'm getting tired of the haters vs fanboys dichotomy. There are loads of people who support him on some things, yet disagree with him on others.

I don't hate him---i just don't like him.
There is a world of difference.

[vad]

So Elon shows up together with Jared Kushner on a photo taken during the World Cup Final. I wonder if the previous Twitter CEO appeared with Hunter Biden on a photo in a luxury suite at some sporting event, what would be the magnitude of a sh.tstorm in conservative media that followed?

[Zero999]

I didn't like Elon when he was lauded for his efforts in energy conservation, & I still don't like him, now that the other side love him because he is supposedly "anti-woke".

I'm getting tired of the haters vs fanboys dichotomy. There are loads of people who support him on some things, yet disagree with him on others.

I don't hate him---i just don't like him.
There is a world of difference.

Your statement implied that others here who've supported him on his acquisition of Twitter love him, which isn't true. In my case it's not that I like Musk that much, but I disliked the old Twitter regime, which would only censor one side, more.

[PlainName]

So Elon shows up together with Jared Kushner on a photo taken during the World Cup Final. I wonder if the previous Twitter CEO appeared with Hunter Biden on a photo in a luxury suite at some sporting event, what would be the magnitude of a sh.tstorm in conservative media that followed?

I think this is straying very close to 'politics' and especially Rep vs Dem, left vs right, etc. Maybe we could just shift the rudder a fraction and steer away from the shoals.

[vk6zgo]

So Elon shows up together with Jared Kushner on a photo taken during the World Cup Final. I wonder if the previous Twitter CEO appeared with Hunter Biden on a photo in a luxury suite at some sporting event, what would be the magnitude of a sh.tstorm in conservative media that followed?

I think this is straying very close to 'politics' and especially Rep vs Dem, left vs right, etc. Maybe we could just shift the rudder a fraction and steer away from the shoals.

It has been dead in the middle of the "Strait of Politics" for weeks now, with nary a whimper from the moderators.
Contrast that to the happenings on the TEA group a while back.

[vk6zgo]

I didn't like Elon when he was lauded for his efforts in energy conservation, & I still don't like him, now that the other side love him because he is supposedly "anti-woke".

I'm getting tired of the haters vs fanboys dichotomy. There are loads of people who support him on some things, yet disagree with him on others.

I don't hate him---i just don't like him.
There is a world of difference.

Your statement implied that others here who've supported him on his acquisition of Twitter love him, which isn't true. In my case it's not that I like Musk that much, but I disliked the old Twitter regime, which would only censor one side, more.

No, I was referring to the reception by those supporters of the Right side of politics, on ordinary Social Media---they didn't have a good word to say about him when he was best known for electric cars, & huge arrays of storage batteries used to store energy from their much despised "renewables".
It seems he is now regarded as a "crusader for free speech", so "all is forgiven".
It seems a tad fickle!

[AVGresponding]

You cannot break the laws of physics!

No, but you can ignore them for convenience when conning money out of credulous people.

[Zero999]

I didn't like Elon when he was lauded for his efforts in energy conservation, & I still don't like him, now that the other side love him because he is supposedly "anti-woke".

I'm getting tired of the haters vs fanboys dichotomy. There are loads of people who support him on some things, yet disagree with him on others.

I don't hate him---i just don't like him.
There is a world of difference.

Your statement implied that others here who've supported him on his acquisition of Twitter love him, which isn't true. In my case it's not that I like Musk that much, but I disliked the old Twitter regime, which would only censor one side, more.

No, I was referring to the reception by those supporters of the Right side of politics, on ordinary Social Media---they didn't have a good word to say about him when he was best known for electric cars, & huge arrays of storage batteries used to store energy from their much despised "renewables".
It seems he is now regarded as a "crusader for free speech", so "all is forgiven".
It seems a tad fickle!

How are the Left any better?

[vk6zgo]

I didn't like Elon when he was lauded for his efforts in energy conservation, & I still don't like him, now that the other side love him because he is supposedly "anti-woke".

I'm getting tired of the haters vs fanboys dichotomy. There are loads of people who support him on some things, yet disagree with him on others.

I don't hate him---i just don't like him.
There is a world of difference.

Your statement implied that others here who've supported him on his acquisition of Twitter love him, which isn't true. In my case it's not that I like Musk that much, but I disliked the old Twitter regime, which would only censor one side, more.

No, I was referring to the reception by those supporters of the Right side of politics, on ordinary Social Media---they didn't have a good word to say about him when he was best known for electric cars, & huge arrays of storage batteries used to store energy from their much despised "renewables".
It seems he is now regarded as a "crusader for free speech", so "all is forgiven".
It seems a tad fickle!

How are the Left any better?

Probably not much better, but most of them don't work themselves up into a tower of outrage over dumb stuff that doesn't matter, such as "wokeness".

[Zero999]

I didn't like Elon when he was lauded for his efforts in energy conservation, & I still don't like him, now that the other side love him because he is supposedly "anti-woke".

I'm getting tired of the haters vs fanboys dichotomy. There are loads of people who support him on some things, yet disagree with him on others.

I don't hate him---i just don't like him.
There is a world of difference.

Your statement implied that others here who've supported him on his acquisition of Twitter love him, which isn't true. In my case it's not that I like Musk that much, but I disliked the old Twitter regime, which would only censor one side, more.

No, I was referring to the reception by those supporters of the Right side of politics, on ordinary Social Media---they didn't have a good word to say about him when he was best known for electric cars, & huge arrays of storage batteries used to store energy from their much despised "renewables".
It seems he is now regarded as a "crusader for free speech", so "all is forgiven".
It seems a tad fickle!

How are the Left any better?

Probably not much better, but most of them don't work themselves up into a tower of outrage over dumb stuff that doesn't matter, such as "wokeness".

That's exactly what the left do: work themselves up into a tower of outrage over dumb stuff because it violates their woke rules. They also loved Elon, until he bought Twitter.

[tom66]

The "socialist left" never liked Elon.  He is anti-union, anti-worker and really not all that of an environmentalist if you consider his personal footprint.  He's done great things for EVs but fought strongly against public transport.  As we know, he flies virtually everywhere in a private jet, too.   And rockets are cool and all, but if you actually consider the carbon emissions from one F9 launch, I think that probably offsets a few hundred Tesla's each time!

The "media pretending to be left" (but are actually just right wing or centrist) love Elon because he is a billionaire, and billionaires own media networks.  Arguably they still like him somewhat, even with the Twitter debacle, because he brings in eyeballs.   Just like they never really hated Trump, just presented the optics of disliking him, he was fantastic for viewership.

You are not really left wing if you support capitalism, like billionaires, being a thing.  I am not left wing, even if I am a bit of an environmentalist and favour better social values (as has been extensively discussed.)  There is an inherent rejection of capitalism, and the hierarchy it brings, in left wing ideology. Worker owned coops ("market socialism") are about as close as you get to capitalist behaviour in a left wing ideology, but really they are quite far away from it.

[Zero999]

The "socialist left" never liked Elon.  He is anti-union, anti-worker and really not all that of an environmentalist if you consider his personal footprint.  He's done great things for EVs but fought strongly against public transport.  As we know, he flies virtually everywhere in a private jet, too.   And rockets are cool and all, but if you actually consider the carbon emissions from one F9 launch, I think that probably offsets a few hundred Tesla's each time!

The "media pretending to be left" (but are actually just right wing or centrist) love Elon because he is a billionaire, and billionaires own media networks.  Arguably they still like him somewhat, even with the Twitter debacle, because he brings in eyeballs.   Just like they never really hated Trump, just presented the optics of disliking him, he was fantastic for viewership.

You are not really left wing if you support capitalism, like billionaires, being a thing.

There are plenty of rich socialists.

favour better social values (as has been extensively discussed.)

It depends on what you mean by better? I'm also favour better social values. We just disagree on what better social values are.

[tom66]

There are plenty of rich socialists.

I think it's hard to imagine they are genuine socialists then.  To be clear, the definition of socialism is to accept a socialist economic model.   It is *not* to simply have views that society should be, e.g. more humanist and accepting, but still include capitalism.    There are virtually no genuine socialist politicians anywhere near power in any Western democracy.  I think the closest you might get are the Greeks having Syriza, but they're gone now.  Can't think of any nowadays... but not an expert on European politics.  In the UK, we have Labour, which has flirted with democratic socialism (Corbyn, for instance), but they lost an election badly on that end, and the current leadership does not support this ideology.

Remember, social democracy (broadly:  Blair, Obama, etc.) is different from democratic socialism (which is socialist values & not a dictatorship!)  Social democracy embraces capitalism, tries to make it a bit more friendly, but it is fundamentally dependent upon capitalism to survive, and therefore it is not socialism.  I would consider my ideology to be in this range.  Most genuine socialists hate SD because it enhances and extends capitalism, whereas the goal of socialism is to create a worker-owned economy.  The ideologies are just not compatible. 

[Ed.Kloonk]

The "socialist left" never liked Elon.  He is anti-union, anti-worker and really not all that of an environmentalist if you consider his personal footprint.  He's done great things for EVs but fought strongly against public transport.  As we know, he flies virtually everywhere in a private jet, too.   And rockets are cool and all, but if you actually consider the carbon emissions from one F9 launch, I think that probably offsets a few hundred Tesla's each time!

The "media pretending to be left" (but are actually just right wing or centrist) love Elon because he is a billionaire, and billionaires own media networks.  Arguably they still like him somewhat, even with the Twitter debacle, because he brings in eyeballs.   Just like they never really hated Trump, just presented the optics of disliking him, he was fantastic for viewership.

You are not really left wing if you support capitalism, like billionaires, being a thing.  I am not left wing, even if I am a bit of an environmentalist and favour better social values (as has been extensively discussed.)  There is an inherent rejection of capitalism, and the hierarchy it brings, in left wing ideology. Worker owned coops ("market socialism") are about as close as you get to capitalist behaviour in a left wing ideology, but really they are quite far away from it.

What a lot of people forget or perhaps don't want to admit is how Elon was able to produce as close to the utopian dream electric cars, right in the middle of the most anti-capitalist part of the country. It's been said that if they were just plain old ICE cars, there is no way it would have been possible.

[tom66]

What a lot of people forget or perhaps don't want to admit is how Elon was able to produce as close to the utopian dream electric cars, right in the middle of the most anti-capitalist part of the country. It's been said that if they were just plain old ICE cars, there is no way it would have been possible.

Calling California, the richest state in the Union and one of immense private venture capital and the home of many billionaires, an "anti capitalist" state... If that's not delusional I don't know what is. 

[james_s]

Calling California, the richest state in the Union and one of immense private venture capital and the home of many billionaires, an "anti capitalist" state... If that's not delusional I don't know what is. 

If you were more familiar with California politics you might not think so. It's a nutty place, full of paradoxes like that. California is easily the most far left state in the US, and yet at the same time there is that immense venture capital and the billionaires you mention. The thing is, there are multiple separate groups of people, not everyone in the state is on the same page.

[SiliconWizard]

And anyway, it's not the 19th or early 20th century anymore. The link between the political left and large corporations/billionaires, apart from a very few exceptions, is now almost the norm.
And "anti-capitalist", except inside the head of a small minority of truly communist people, is also largely a political construction these days that is being abused, and in some cases even financed by the "big capital". Calling this a paradox looks like an edulcorated way of putting it, but that's just me.

[tom66]

If you were more familiar with California politics you might not think so. It's a nutty place, full of paradoxes like that. California is easily the most far left state in the US, and yet at the same time there is that immense venture capital and the billionaires you mention. The thing is, there are multiple separate groups of people, not everyone in the state is on the same page.

Sure, but again, a state cannot be far left if it supports and embraces capitalism.  Which California very obviously does - to the great success of many living within.  It is absolutely bonkers to call the state far left, or even to associate this with its politicians (at least the ones in control, like the state's senators -- I'm not talking about some fringe party that has one or two seats here or there in some town council).

It is possible to be pro-capitalist and be centrist or perhaps centre-left on certain things, like gay rights for instance, but to be "far left" is to be "socialist".  That is literally incompatible with capitalism, as capitalism is the ownership of the means of production by private individuals (typically, but not exclusively, the wealthiest), whereas socialism is ownership of said means of production by the workers.  California has very few worker owned co-ops, outside of the odd random grocery store run by hippies.

This is I guess the paradox of American politics.  What you guys consider to be far left is something even European centre-right or right-wing parties support, and nobody outside of the US considers even mildly a left wing policy.

[aeberbach]

That's exactly what the left do: work themselves up into a tower of outrage over dumb stuff because it violates their woke rules. They also loved Elon, until he bought Twitter.

Nup. Weird nerds, particularly libertarian weird nerds, loved Elon. People who consider him to be a lucky and clever fool were and are pretty evenly spread, politically speaking.

[vk6zgo]

Calling California, the richest state in the Union and one of immense private venture capital and the home of many billionaires, an "anti capitalist" state... If that's not delusional I don't know what is. 

If you were more familiar with California politics you might not think so. It's a nutty place, full of paradoxes like that. California is easily the most far left state in the US, and yet at the same time there is that immense venture capital and the billionaires you mention. The thing is, there are multiple separate groups of people, not everyone in the state is on the same page.

"Far left" in the USA is "centrist" in everyone else's language.