Elon Musk is a nice chap

[james_s]

Except that there are a number of certain people that does not apply to and are exempt from freely being followed. And if someone did try, they'd be stitched up pretty quickly.

Rules for them..

Like who?

[RJSV]

Uhh, NO !
   Let's try, a walk through Shakespeare:...whose famous quote applies here: "Me thinks he doth protest too much...".
   That's a remark sussing out some speaker, who is disingenuously pretending both ignorance (mildly), and shock / protest.  Pretending that info enabling stalking is 'harmless' speculation.  Try using that one on Pelosi; whose husband suffered a brutal home attack.
That, is where the hipocracy starts in, scientifically-wise,...when try switching the players around, watching the reactions change:
   Try reversing things, regarding that horrible personal hammer assault, attack.  Try saying (for pointing out hypocrisy) say " Well, Pelosi chose to be in public spotlight, so...(shoulda been more careful).  THAT is disingenuous!  Had to look it up in dictionary...

Just recent 'survey', here,, sample reading:
   (Musk)
   "Lost it, again...",
   "Rage quit...",
   Making "bizarre claims",
   "No evidence...", events are connected
   "Psychiatric Condition...",
   "Musk is losing himself...",
   "...making more unhinged claims...",

   After, like, 37 piles, one does start to appreciate that Shakespeare comment.  "Me thinks he doth pile on smears, too much...", (Ok I wrote that)...

[TimFox]

Shakespeare:
The actual line from Hamlet (act 3, scene 2) is "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
That is the original meaning of "protest", meaning to declare solemnly or avow, not to deny or object.

[RJSV]

Tim, thanks, but does that mean:
   The lady keeps asserting loyalty, too much ?  I'll look that up, interesting take.

[vk6zgo]

Vk, you just made my point right there! Thank you.

   All your opponents, are crazy.  That's a pretty lame defense, ...

No, R.J, your longer posts become incoherent, so the perhaps quite reasonable argument is lost in the noise.

Your shorter ones are quite intelligible, but only serve to advance the argument that those who have failed to find their way through the mass of verbiage are willfully dismissing the long posts because of some political agenda.

[RJSV]

Vk, you are so intent on flame, forget myself, and please forget the personal inference, that's EXACTLY the style you political activists utilize.
   Yes, and I smell bad, often...but thought this thread had to do with social media ?
Funny, though, the smear techniques are same,
"Unhinged Musk",
  "Musk making unproven conspiracy theories"...
   "We have to stop the dangerous lies about ..."
(Insert favorite exaggeration).

   Yes, let's exaggerate, and make up something ridiculous...like "he saying tiny 5G cell towers are installed in the COVID vaccine, spying on you..."...

Hey, ...that's pretty good...I can make up some delicious smears, just twist the fella's words until he
..."appeared unhinged, there..."

...soo juvinile

[vk6zgo]

Vk, you are so intent on flame, forget myself, and please forget the personal inference, that's EXACTLY the style you political activists utilize.
   Yes, and I smell bad, often...but thought this thread had to do with social media ?
Funny, though, the smear techniques are same,
"Unhinged Musk",
  "Musk making unproven conspiracy theories"...
   "We have to stop the dangerous lies about ..."
(Insert favorite exaggeration).

   Yes, let's exaggerate, and make up something ridiculous...like "he saying tiny 5G cell towers are installed in the COVID vaccine, spying on you..."...

Hey, ...that's pretty good...I can make up some delicious smears, just twist the fella's words until he
..."appeared unhinged, there..."

...soo juvinile

R.J, I don't "come within a bull's roar" of being a "political activist", & I haven't "twisted" your, Elon's, Don's, Vlad's, or anybody else's words.
Your latest posting is exactly what I was referring to.
It seems like your mind works too fast for either the keyboard, or those us with slower perception to catch up to, so we are "left bobbing in your wake", squawking "Wadda he say? Wadda he say?

[wraper]

But isn't that the problem? I wonder if perhaps you should care who knows.

Well, it's pretty obvious Elon is bothered, I don't think anyone needs that pointing out.

What isn't obvious is why this is suddenly a problem, when the exact arguments have been made by others, along the lines of "you can't arbitrate over free speech, because who moderates the moderators?"

Who decides whether ElonJet crosses a line?  Is it *obvious*, given what is being done is just the aggregation of public information, in a manner that almost anyone could do with a day of effort?  Well, it was pretty obvious to me that banning accounts telling people the vaccines have microchips in them, is a good idea, but, well apparently it's an unsolvable problem to decide what information is bad and what information is good. 

Unless you're rich enough to buy the company, then you get to decide.

It's hypocrisy to dislike ElonJet and campaign for it to be banned, but not to support other forms of moderation.

Elon was botherder before but still tolerated it. Even though the guy wasn't just reposting publicly known information. Until a car with his son was attacked by some moron who was dressed like ANTIFA.

Is it *obvious*, given what is being done is just the aggregation of public information

Nope, it's processing what is not obvious and later when PIA was activated also descrambling hidden information.

[Ed.Kloonk]

He'll keep going until he pokes the wrong bear.

edit:(This Sweeney chap, I mean.)

[RJSV]

   Musk didn't say 'blanket pass for any and all speech'...  That's another mis-spoken exaggeration, makes (him) look reckless.  The old saying about yelling 'fire!', in a crowded theater as a common sense exception still holds.

   But when one wishes to 'smear' and confuse the issue, that's a useful 'disingenious' play.
Plus, in light of COVID, looks like you can't, also, yell:
' 2020 election was, maybe, stolen...", because why, again ?

   Or, same thing with vax, since subject keeps arising, How about if a person yells "VAX don't work...causes 5G poisoning..."
Purposefully ridiculous, I know, but I just don't feel the threat.  The older, well known danger of yelling 'FIRE' is an issue of crowd safety.
Alex Jones, and now Musk, don't really pose a crowd safety issue, or, as stated, an 'existantial threat to our very democracy.'. That's what's ridiculous, genuine.

[tom66]

It's been said before it's impossible to determine what is misinformation and what is genuine, because who moderates the moderators?  Well, who determines what is private info and not?  ElonJet is skirting the line between public and private, as another poster suggested, you have no right to privacy when in public (is a private jet's location public?)
 
Regardless of whether it is a privacy violation, how do you police it?  Because eventually you would have the risk of, e.g. an affair Elon had becoming public information.  Is that "Elon's privacy" with posts relating to that to be squashed?  What about one of his kids getting involved in a corruption scandal with the lithium mines in Bolivia?  Is that privacy?   A politician favourable to Elon needing some hush money covered up? 

[Ed.Kloonk]

It's been said before it's impossible to determine what is misinformation and what is genuine, because who moderates the moderators?  Well, who determines what is private info and not?  ElonJet is skirting the line between public and private, as another poster suggested, you have no right to privacy when in public (is a private jet's location public?)
 
Regardless of whether it is a privacy violation, how do you police it?  Because eventually you would have the risk of, e.g. an affair Elon had becoming public information.  Is that "Elon's privacy" with posts relating to that to be squashed?  What about one of his kids getting involved in a corruption scandal with the lithium mines in Bolivia?  Is that privacy?   A politician favourable to Elon needing some hush money covered up?

I think that spreading instantaneous, private personal location information is a different category for obvious reasons.

[RJSV]

Sure you can know.  Here is some common sense examples:
   Suppose you are on a jury.  One case on trial, the rich guy's had a break-in that involved private info where the thieves targeted a car, at some scheduled event.  The question at the trial being the 'private' whereabouts of that car, on that night.
   Pretty straightforward, to determine connections, between crime, and the inside info used.

You could try, I guess, to play dumb, there.  But the other juryers would point out the connection, between the sensitive info (whereabouts of car), and the facilitating of the crime.

   Playing dumb (disingenuous) would have said something like: " had no idea thieves could use that info to target that particular car."

[wraper]

What about one of his kids getting involved in a corruption scandal with the lithium mines in Bolivia?  Is that privacy?   A politician favourable to Elon needing some hush money covered up?

What if I call that BS? AFAIK the only ties Elon had with Bolivia was shitposting about doings of US government on Twitter.

[AndyBeez]

And the store owner failed to notify my health insurance company that I've taken up smoking.

Actually, the air quality monitor inside your smart speaker has already done that. And your smart phone confirms this by setting your current Google location to "designated smoking area."

Big data is big business. Keep feeding their big data money machine. You've already consented by being connected.

Come woo me, for now I am in a holiday humour and like enough to consent. _{As you like it}

[TimFox]

Tim, thanks, but does that mean:
   The lady keeps asserting loyalty, too much ?  I'll look that up, interesting take.

In the play, Hamlet is aggressively provoking his mother by having the actors (in the play-within-the-play) show a very faithful wife, who does protest her everlasting fidelity in a long speech.
Gertrude (his mother) is annoyed and responds with that line after Hamlet asks, "Madam, how like you this play?"

Another commonly misunderstood line is Juliet's:  "Wherefore art thou Romeo?", which is not a question about his whereabouts.

[vad]

It's not just about the stalking but also the fact that the kid demanded $50,000 from Musk for taking down the Musk Jet webpage.  That's clearly extortion and not just a matter of re-posting some obscure but publicly available information.

Musk was the first to offer monetary compensation for shutting down the bot. The kid’s subsequent reply is clearly a negotiation, not the extortion. There is no evidence that the kid built the bot with the purpose of extorting money from Elon, or that he is not trolling Musk by making public counteroffers.

[vad]

That is clearly STALKING.

Musk is a public figure who loves to be in public spotlight both on TV, in the press and while twitting to his 121 million followers. He is known for making political statements in public, and making actions that impact political system both in this country and around the world.

As being the public figure, Musk does not have the same privacy protections as a private citizen has. It is of public interest to know every piece of Elon’s life: including information about his travel destinations, who he golfs with, who his mistress is, and what did he eat for breakfast. This also includes information about his adult family members. People who are obsessed with Hunter Biden’s affairs should fully support the last part.

If Musk was a typical workaholic CEO, who screws competitors, demands employees to work 80 hours a week while sleeping in the office, enjoys private jets, yachts and expensive mansions, but keeps his mouth shut in public, then that would be a completely different story.

[wraper]

That is clearly STALKING.

Musk is a public figure who loves to be in public spotlight both on TV, in the press and while twitting to his 121 million followers. He is known for making political statements in public, and making actions that impact political system both in this country and around the world.

As being the public figure, Musk does not have the same privacy protections as a private citizen has. It is of public interest to know every piece of Elon’s life: including information about his travel destinations, who he golfs with, who his mistress is, and what did he eat for breakfast. This also includes information about his adult family members. People who are obsessed with Hunter Biden’s affairs should fully support the last part.

Again, publishing his location in real time is not the same as publishing information about his life after the fact. Also I've seen a good argument that private jets often use small aerodromes without security, so it becomes a very serious security risk.

[vad]

Again, publishing his location in real time is not the same as publishing information about his life after the fact. Also I've seen a good argument that private jets often use small aerodromes without security, so it becomes a very serious security risk.

The same argument applies to privacy of private citizens. I, for example, do not understand why a flight that I, my small children and 300 other souls boarded in couch class can be tracked in real time, while Musk’s jet should be untraceable. As I suggested few posts above, Elon should lobby Congress, European Commission, Australian Parliament, King Charles III, Emperor of Japan on banning ADS-B.

Elon’s annual income ($23.5B in 2021) exceeds budget revenue of small EU member states (12.4B Euros during the same period in Latvia). If Latvia can afford police and military force, I am sure Elon can and should affords bodyguards who can protect him and his family even at smallest airfield in the middle of nowhere disregarding of whether they flew there on a private jet or a charter, or took a scheduled commercial passenger flight. It is a prudent thing to do for a rich person like Musk.

[james_s]

It's been said before it's impossible to determine what is misinformation and what is genuine, because who moderates the moderators?  Well, who determines what is private info and not?  ElonJet is skirting the line between public and private, as another poster suggested, you have no right to privacy when in public (is a private jet's location public?)
 
Regardless of whether it is a privacy violation, how do you police it?  Because eventually you would have the risk of, e.g. an affair Elon had becoming public information.  Is that "Elon's privacy" with posts relating to that to be squashed?  What about one of his kids getting involved in a corruption scandal with the lithium mines in Bolivia?  Is that privacy?   A politician favourable to Elon needing some hush money covered up?

I think that spreading instantaneous, private personal location information is a different category for obvious reasons.

It doesn't matter what you think, it matters what the law says in the nation in which the event is taking place. There are written laws that determine what is legal and what is not. When a law contains ambiguity it is up to the courts to interpret it and determine if the law has been broken.

[wraper]

Again, publishing his location in real time is not the same as publishing information about his life after the fact. Also I've seen a good argument that private jets often use small aerodromes without security, so it becomes a very serious security risk.

The same argument applies to privacy of private citizens. I, for example, do not understand why a flight that I, my small children and 300 other souls boarded in couch class can be tracked in real time, while Musk’s jet should be untraceable. As I suggested few posts above, Elon should lobby Congress, European Commission, Australian Parliament, King Charles III, Emperor of Japan on banning ADS-B.

It's not that jet is untraceable, it is traceable. The problem is with knowledge about who is on that flight. The difference with you flying is that it's not public who is on your flight. Also if you read previous posts Elon was using Privacy ICAO Address (PIA) but this guy still figured it and made public.

[james_s]

Again, publishing his location in real time is not the same as publishing information about his life after the fact. Also I've seen a good argument that private jets often use small aerodromes without security, so it becomes a very serious security risk.

Then that's something the individual needs to take into consideration when arranging their security detail. Anybody wealthy enough to have a private jet can afford private security.

What does the law say? Everything else is irrelevant.

[james_s]

Because it's not public who is on that flight. Also if you read previous posts Elon was using Privacy ICAO Address (PIA) but this guy still figured it and made public.

It's not public who is on Musk's jet either. How do you know he's actually on it? The flight could be carrying his friends, family, business associates, cargo, or it could be an empty flight to ferry the aircraft somewhere.

I don't know about the legality of decoding privacy ICAO, maybe you can find a law that applies to that, personally I can't be bothered. Either way if it is illegal then the guy will be arrested at some point, if it isn't illegal then he won't. Opinions and feelings on the matter are totally irrelevant.

[wraper]

Again, publishing his location in real time is not the same as publishing information about his life after the fact. Also I've seen a good argument that private jets often use small aerodromes without security, so it becomes a very serious security risk.

Then that's something the individual needs to take into consideration when arranging their security detail. Anybody wealthy enough to have a private jet can afford private security.

What does the law say? Everything else is irrelevant.

Actually apparently it's illegal since Elon is also taking legal action against the guy.