Elon Musk is a nice chap

[Bud]

This looks more like most of the employees did not comply with his demand for work examples and simply walked off of the job before his deadline.

I wonder how many diversity managers walked off. 

[tszaboo]

This looks more like most of the employees did not comply with his demand for work examples and simply walked off of the job before his deadline.

I wonder how many diversity managers walked off. 

Probably they were fired last week already.

[PlainName]

I point to the fact that even the x-Twitter employees are still using Twitter to complain.

Just because you leave Microsoft you never ever use another Microsoft product again? How about you get the sack from a dentist - never brush your teeth again?

Using twitter is very different from making it work. Cutting off your nose to spite your face doesn't get anywhere, and I would expect most ex-employees are grown up enough to realise that.

[Leeima]

The evening news tonight is quoting The Washington Post as saying that 3/4 of Twitter's employees have quit!!!!

Quit or gone? If they quit that would save Musk a lot of severance payments. If would also self select most of the problem people, simplifying things considerably.

The offer he gave them was to click Yes to accept the new terms, otherwise they would be terminated and given 3 months of severance pay. I'm not a lawyer but I believe that written offer entitles them to severance. He could have just laid out his expectations and told people to resign if they no longer wanted to work there but that isn't what he did.

At least for the UK Employees they may be able to claim constructive dismissal - which may be better than the offer of 3 months pay.
Personally I'd probably take the 3 months pay, on the basis I'll land another role or can survive on my screw you money - Dave mentioned this in EEVBLAB92 https://www.eevblog.com/2022/01/06/eevblab-92-the-wealth-equation/

[Stray Electron]

]
This would be a criminal and punishable action. That previously did not work well for those ex system admins locking their company routers or erasing databases, did it?

   Yes and yes but people still do it all of the time.   And very often companies don't prosecute them because they don't want the word getting out to their customers that their systems weren't secure.  And in Twitter's case with so many employees gone it might take some time before the company even knows that anything (hardware, software, company records, etc) has been damaged or stolen. And with so many gone it would be impossible to discover who did the damage.

[Stray Electron]

   I have a couple of questions for the herd.  Rules regarding people quitting and/or being fired are different in different US states and are different in other countries.  Has anyone seen a break down of what different states or country twitter has employees in and how many quit in the various locations?  We hear a lot about Twitter in California but I don't think that that is the only location where employees have walked off of the job.

   Second, Elon's order was for "coders" to give samples of their work by the deadline or quit.  Does anyone know how many "coders" and Non-coders were employed by Twitter and how many coders and non-coders walked off of the job?  It seems to me that a lot of non-coders left. If they did, then they can't use Elon's order as justification and that could have huge legal, financial, and future employment for them.  Just to start with, Elon's offer of 3 months severance pay would apply since they weren't "coders". And they also wouldn't be eligible to get state funded employment compensation since they left voluntarily. And if it come to light in future job application a future potential employer would most likely refuse to hire them.

[Black Phoenix]

]
This would be a criminal and punishable action. That previously did not work well for those ex system admins locking their company routers or erasing databases, did it?

   Yes and yes but people still do it all of the time.   And very often companies don't prosecute them because they don't want the word getting out to their customers that their systems weren't secure.  And in Twitter's case with so many employees gone it might take some time before the company even knows that anything (hardware, software, company records, etc) has been damaged or stolen. And with so many gone it would be impossible to discover who did the damage.

If proper systems and safety had been implemented logs are kept of changes. And also deletion of logs or changes on the log files.

In Telecom is how the MGW, GGSN, MSS, HLR, etc work. If I was doing any preventive work and by mistake deleted a config I would go to the logs and there would be my username, date and hour plus the changes done.

I just had to revert, creating a new entree in the log file. Log files were read only and only the machine could write it or change it.

[Bud]

It is not particularly good time of year to voluntary quit, we are getting into Christmas holidays, much less hiring, I'd think with 3 months of severance most of the quitters will barely make it until they receive their first paycheck from their new employer.

[Leeima]

   I have a couple of questions for the herd.  Rules regarding people quitting and/or being fired are different in different US states and are different in other countries.  Has anyone seen a break down of what different states or country twitter has employees in and how many quit in the various locations?  We hear a lot about Twitter in California but I don't think that that is the only location where employees have walked off of the job.

   Second, Elon's order was for "coders" to give samples of their work by the deadline or quit.  Does anyone know how many "coders" and Non-coders were employed by Twitter and how many coders and non-coders walked off of the job?  It seems to me that a lot of non-coders left. If they did, then they can't use Elon's order as justification and that could have huge legal, financial, and future employment for them.  Just to start with, Elon's offer of 3 months severance pay would apply since they weren't "coders". And they also wouldn't be eligible to get state funded employment compensation since they left voluntarily. And if it come to light in future job application a future potential employer would most likely refuse to hire them.

The UK has a lot of law covering workers. TUPE (certain protections when a company changes hands). The working time regulations also could apply (48 hour max week unless you opt-out; I doubt you can be forced to opt out) So coders working in the UK should not be dismissed for not meeting his "hardcore" hours just because the American workers do.

Constructive dismissal could apply in the sense that employees are being asked to accept unreasonable changes/potentially being bullied into accepting them.
All of  these coders could claim an allegation of poor performance which is unfounded since they're being asked to prove their value.

Plus there's also the whole proper redundancy procedure to be followed; which looks like it's already not (3 Days (1 busineday day) to elect a representative is short notice for 8000 staff)
Once they've done that noone can be made redundant until 45 Days of talks have been made - half of the UK twitter team has been made redundant already so they probably got sizable payoffs.

I'm sure someone with a bit more legal background could comment.

[james_s]

It is not particularly good time of year to voluntary quit, we are getting into Christmas holidays, much less hiring, I'd think with 3 months of severance most of the quitters will barely make it until they receive their first paycheck from their new employer.

3 months of severance followed by 9 months of unemployment benefits, and on top of that there are loads of places hiring workers for the holiday season, not at tech salaries but at least as much as unemployment benefits pay, I think most of them will do alright. If they've got any sense they'll have plenty in savings too.

[Bud]

To start receiving unemployment insurance payouts from the government (assuming you made your contributions into it when you were employed) here you have to demonstrate that you were unsuccessful in your reasonable work search.

[james_s]

To start receiving unemployment insurance payouts from the government (assuming you made your contributions into it when you were employed) here you have to demonstrate that you were unsuccessful in your reasonable work search.

It's different in the US, which is where the company being discussed is located. When I was collecting unemployment I had to report any income, I did some contract work and reported it, it offset some of the benefits I was collecting which extended the time I could collect them. I don't see how any other way would make sense, if making any kind of income blocked you from collecting benefits it would totally discourage anyone from even trying to find work below their normal salary level.

[Bud]

I think most of them will do alright. If they've got any sense they'll have plenty in savings too.

I do not think most of people start seriously thinking about making savings or become capable of it until they hit 35 years of age.

[james_s]

I do not think most of people start seriously thinking about making savings or become capable of it until they hit 35 years of age.

Well that's just poor life choices then. I opened a savings account when I got my first real job when I was 17. By 25 I had saved up over $50k which covered the down payment on my house.

[Bud]

To start receiving unemployment insurance payouts from the government (assuming you made your contributions into it when you were employed) here you have to demonstrate that you were unsuccessful in your reasonable work search.

It's different in the US, which is where the company being discussed is located. When I was collecting unemployment I had to report any income, I did some contract work and reported it, it offset some of the benefits I was collecting which extended the time I could collect them. I don't see how any other way would make sense, if making any kind of income blocked you from collecting benefits it would totally discourage anyone from even trying to find work below their normal salary level.

Here is a link to unemployment benefits rules in Canada

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/ei/ei-regular-benefit/eligibility.html

Edit: Note this one:

You may not be eligible for EI benefits
if you voluntarily left your job without just cause

[tooki]

I do not think most of people start seriously thinking about making savings or become capable of it until they hit 35 years of age.

Well that's just poor life choices then. I opened a savings account when I got my first real job when I was 17. By 25 I had saved up over $50k which covered the down payment on my house.

That’s an extraordinarily arrogant claim. Not everyone has the ability to earn enough money to save, never mind that much. Many Americans who work full time don’t even earn enough money to pay for rent and basic expenses, never mind luxuries or savings.

Given that you talk about it in the past tense, I assume you’re a bit older than 25 now. So am I (42 now). Back when I was living in Maryland (the whole 2000s), minimum wage was $7.25/h. At 40h/week, that’s $1160/month. Even back then, a decidedly non-luxurious 1br apartment was $700, far above the 30% of income one is supposed to spend on housing.

Not everyone is capable of earning more than minimum wage, be it due to their innate abilities, or because they didn’t have the opportunities to study. You don’t know what someone’s circumstances are. The people I know who were able to save lots of money when young were people who could live at home rent-free. Not everyone has that option, either.

[tom66]

There's a statistic around that suggests the average American would struggle to fund a $500 car repair.  There's vast income inequality and many people living on the breadline even in a first world country. 

[coppice]

I do not think most of people start seriously thinking about making savings or become capable of it until they hit 35 years of age.

Well that's just poor life choices then. I opened a savings account when I got my first real job when I was 17. By 25 I had saved up over $50k which covered the down payment on my house.

That’s an extraordinarily arrogant claim. Not everyone has the ability to earn enough money to save, never mind that much. Many Americans who work full time don’t even earn enough money to pay for rent and basic expenses, never mind luxuries or savings.

Saving $50k in 8 years is more than most people can do, even if they are very frugal. However, its amazing how many people who say they can't save a dime can afford things like nice holidays every year.

[james_s]

That’s an extraordinarily arrogant claim. Not everyone has the ability to earn enough money to save, never mind that much. Many Americans who work full time don’t even earn enough money to pay for rent and basic expenses, never mind luxuries or savings.

Given that you talk about it in the past tense, I assume you’re a bit older than 25 now. So am I (42 now). Back when I was living in Maryland (the whole 2000s), minimum wage was $7.25/h. At 40h/week, that’s $1160/month. Even back then, a decidedly non-luxurious 1br apartment was $700, far above the 30% of income one is supposed to spend on housing.

Not everyone is capable of earning more than minimum wage, be it due to their innate abilities, or because they didn’t have the opportunities to study. You don’t know what someone’s circumstances are. The people I know who were able to save lots of money when young were people who could live at home rent-free. Not everyone has that option, either.

We're talking about Twitter employees, average wage of ~$149k/year. That's not upper class in the bay area but it's enough to put some money in savings. There were zero people at Twitter earning minimum wage or less.

[james_s]

Saving $50k in 8 years is more than most people can do, even if they are very frugal. However, its amazing how many people who say they can't save a dime can afford things like nice holidays every year.

I drove a $500 car for 17 years and would still have it today if I hadn't been rear ended. I cook most of my own meals and rarely eat out even today. I don't drink coffee, let alone the fancy $10 ones a lot of people have every day. I've never subscribed to cable TV, I've never even paid money for a TV, I've always gotten broken ones and fixed them. It's almost all a matter of priorities, I have friends that have consistently made around twice what I have that are always broke.

In my case I knew I wanted to buy a house, that was my main life goal from the time I was a teenager and while my friends were blowing their money drinking in bars and going on trips I was at home entertaining myself. I ate a lot of tuna sandwiches on basic white bread I made several times a week in my thrift store bread machine. It also didn't hurt that I was an hourly paid contractor at a major software company at the time and worked a lot of OT several summers in a row. 70+ hours a week earned me quite a bit of money and left little time to spend any of it. That's why I don't blame people at all for not wanting to commit to that kind of death march at Twitter. It's something you can do when you're in your 20s and single, for a while, but nobody with any sort of life can sustain it for very long and if it were demanded of me today I'd quit.

[John B]

Saving $50k in 8 years is more than most people can do, even if they are very frugal. However, its amazing how many people who say they can't save a dime can afford things like nice holidays every year.

I drove a $500 car for 17 years and would still have it today if I hadn't been rear ended. I cook most of my own meals and rarely eat out even today. I don't drink coffee, let alone the fancy $10 ones a lot of people have every day. I've never subscribed to cable TV, I've never even paid money for a TV, I've always gotten broken ones and fixed them. It's almost all a matter of priorities, I have friends that have consistently made around twice what I have that are always broke.

In my case I knew I wanted to buy a house, that was my main life goal from the time I was a teenager and while my friends were blowing their money drinking in bars and going on trips I was at home entertaining myself. I ate a lot of tuna sandwiches on basic white bread I made several times a week in my thrift store bread machine. It also didn't hurt that I was an hourly paid contractor at a major software company at the time and worked a lot of OT several summers in a row. 70+ hours a week earned me quite a bit of money and left little time to spend any of it. That's why I don't blame people at all for not wanting to commit to that kind of death march at Twitter. It's something you can do when you're in your 20s and single, for a while, but nobody with any sort of life can sustain it for very long and if it were demanded of me today I'd quit.

I've met people whose minds were blown at the concept of "leftovers", ie not just throwing a whole load of perfectly good food into the bin after every meal.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Well, you know who's twitter account has been reactivated. Or more precisely, unsuspended. No new tweets yet...

[Sal Ammoniac]

Well, you know who's twitter account has been reactivated. Or more precisely, unsuspended. No new tweets yet...

Crap! Voldemort's account has been reactivated? Damn.

[wraper]

There's a statistic around that suggests the average American would struggle to fund a $500 car repair.  There's vast income inequality and many people living on the breadline even in a first world country.

It's not about inequality but unwise financial decisions by individuals. Each month they spend as much as they possibly can and have many credits to pay. Especially true in US where buying on credit is basically ingrained in culture. When some unexpected spending is needed, they have no additional money whatsoever.

[EEVblog]

Well, you know who's twitter account has been reactivated. Or more precisely, unsuspended. No new tweets yet...

Crap! Voldemort's account has been reactivated? Damn.

Use the block button if it bothers you.
Twitter is a choose-your-own-adventure.
He said he's not coming back, but the meltdown has been hilarious anyway