Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud

[nctnico]

Thus, my point was not about crime in general.  It was specifically about these brazen fraudsters who commit to it big time and for big bucks, i.e. specifically psychopaths and sociopaths.  To give them pause, the punishment must be significant.

The way Elizabeth Holmes tried to use social manipulation to avoid a harsh punishment, is just a double "fuck you" to all law-abiding people, as a cherry on top.

I get your point but being scammed by a psychopath myself, I'm convinced that any form of punishment won't deter these kind of people. They don't even see/understand what they are doing is wrong so won't even consider any form of punishment while causing lots of damage. It is cringeworthy to see how these people speak of doing humanity a service while in reality their actions are driving people into killing themselves. IOW: you are giving psychopaths and sociopaths way too much credit. 

It would not surprise me if a video or audio fragment of Elizabeth Holmes pops up where she is still defending Theranos even after being convicted.

[Nominal Animal]

IOW: you are giving psychopaths and sociopaths way too much credit. 

It is quite possible.  After all, it is only my current understanding/belief.

It would not surprise me if a video or audio fragment of Elizabeth Holmes pops up where she is still defending Theranos even after being convicted.

You do have an excellent point there.  One of the mechanisms that allows these people to "shed" any social pressure, is the belief that they are doing the Right Thing.

However, I do not believe that is specifically a sociopathic/psychopathic feature, as it is also the way how ordinary humans shield themselves from social pressure.  Even when confronted with evidence "we told you you were wrong!" -style, people almost always defend with "Nobody could have predicted you were right!".  Bad actions are defended by "X made me do it", or "It was just an error; I'm really a good person, and would never do such an evil thing intentionally!".

(That is, I don't think it is a sign of psychopathy or sociopathy for her to do so, just typical of people refusing to take responsibility for their own actions.)

[nctnico]

Do psychopathic / sociopaths even feel social pressure? AFAIK they use it to control the world around them. Elizabeth Holmes' pregnancy is probably one of the worst examples of doing just that.

[bdunham7]

I don't think we can expect each and every fund manager to employ a staff of molecular biologists to do the level of due diligence necessary to verify the validity of a cutting-edge business like Theranos.  But unless the manager has been open about the type of investments they plan to make, the manager shouldn't be investing in that class of early-stage ventures.

If I give my money to a manager of a Fortune 500 fund, I'm going to be pretty upset if I find out they invested in Theranos or FTX (crypto).

Not at the early stages, no.  But if you have or manage a significant investment, you can and should consult with experts and demand that the company provide sufficient transparency so that you and your expert can evaluate their progress.  In the case of Bernie Madoff and I believe to an extent with Theranos, there were many investors that did ask questions, didn't get answers and just walked away.

Unfortunately, unlike Madoff and Theranos, FTX attracted a pretty good chunk of institutional investors--Kevin O'Leary, Sequoia Capital, Ontario Teachers Pension Fund (!!)  and so on that definitely should have known better IMO. When someone tells you that you can send your money to a startup in the Bahamas and get an 8% return with 'no risk', even an average dummy should have their BS detector going off at full volume.

[MikeK]

The only thing that is going to help is having good laws & raise awareness to prevent scams and enough people in law enforcement to go after criminals.

The problem is that we don't always get good laws in the US.  Corporations control a lot.  They've even been granted the same status as people via the Citizens United suit.  We can't even appropriately tax rich people.  Take a look at what our tax rates *used* to be.  One of our political parties is determined to end organized human existence.

[Stray Electron]

The only thing that is going to help is having good laws & raise awareness to prevent scams and enough people in law enforcement to go after criminals.

The problem is that we don't always get good laws in the US.  Corporations control a lot.  They've even been granted the same status as people via the Citizens United suit.  We can't even appropriately tax rich people.  Take a look at what our tax rates *used* to be.  One of our political parties is determined to end organized human existence.

  Nice political rant but none of what you're carrying on about applies to the discussion at hand.

[nctnico]

The only thing that is going to help is having good laws & raise awareness to prevent scams and enough people in law enforcement to go after criminals.

The problem is that we don't always get good laws in the US.  Corporations control a lot.  They've even been granted the same status as people via the Citizens United suit.  We can't even appropriately tax rich people.  Take a look at what our tax rates *used* to be.  One of our political parties is determined to end organized human existence.

  Nice political rant but none of what you're carrying on about applies to the discussion at hand.

Actually it does. One of the main problems that allow people to setup companies that are basically a scam is the political unwillingness to put a halt to such pratices.

[Gregg]

Poor Elisabeth feels like she is the victim here; after all she had this wonderful (but ill conceived) idea to change the world by making a miracle machine.  She hired the best talent she could find to make it happen, but in her mind it was these people that failed her. 
Similar reasoning is endemic to many con artists and charlatans.
She seems to have the financial backing to pursue leniency and will not stop until her resources are totally exhausted.  If appeals add to the sentence time and severity, maybe it will slow her down, but she will only feel more victimized with zero empathy for those she has victimized.

[MrMobodies]

I know of a family firm a bit like this with a psychopath and a sociopath.

There is a psychopath (the owner) and a sociopath (young family member).

There is a sociopath (the owner) and a psychopath (young family member). This sociopath is very paranoid and checks up on everybody finding out what they are, what they are doing but all in all seems to mean well and would try make friends with the workmen and appease everyone when possible but when things get bad they would step on anybody they can including their own family. This sociopath has this whiny voice and you'd feel sorry for them like they had a tough life and you'd want to go out of your way to help them in whatever way you can. They'd often question and say things many times in different ways where they needed a lot of reassuring.

There was driver that use to steal petrol, when he was caught one day filling up barrels on the cctv footage in the petrol station, the psychopath OOPS sociopath didn't call the police, he was telling him repeatedly that they were going to give him a pay rise and now that is being cancelled and he'll deduct the stolen petrol from his wages. The problem is, there were no pay rises ever discussed that month. They only do that when they are enticing men when they get new work contracts coming in. In fact they were talking about cutting all the men's wages as the work was drying up and less money coming in I believe they were doing this to make the driver feel bad. There were times were would accuse someone of "playing mind games", being an "emotional bully" and "passive aggressiveness" when "the family" would do exactly the same thing not just to the workmen but to each other.

Now this is where the psychopath protects the the sociopath from trouble.

Now this is where the sociopath protects the psychopath from trouble.

The psychopath would not always let their feelings be known directly. They would do things indirectly when they can through other people. If they want something they wouldn't always tell the person directly they would go to other family members to get the workmen to change plans or do other stuff. Very shy like. They would also lay the blame on others when things go wrong and get angry and defensive when proven wrong. If a joke they say backfires they get angry too and do stuff like stamp their feet and talking a low grumpy voice that the joke is on them etc.. Also nobody is allowed to fart but them as they would take great offense.

Now the sociopath on this occasion understand this psychopath fully, so when the sociopath is present and there are possible signs that this psychopath is unhappy and is about to do something outrageous like explode, scream and hurl a whole loud of abuse at the next person in the room with them, the sociopath quickly takes them away on the early signs of when they show grumpiness such as a low tone voice and negative speak and he'd tell them what is about to happen, stay away and watch them gradually explode and then task them with other work in a different part of the building.

The sociopath would always be sending the workmen to checkup on this psychopath to see if they are happy in order for the firm to run smoothly but they would have some disagreements on work times, such as coming in late and leaving early. The sociopath would not allow the psychopath from to having have lunch due to the limited hours they work but they still have their lunch when the sociopath is out of the office so the workmen or other people working in this office will be sent to checkup whether the psychopath are stopping has stopped to eat their lunch but they would know and tell them not to say anything.

Approaching this sociopath psycopath and getting direct answers out of them for things they say and don't mean, could lead them into, swearing, shouting and screaming, threatening to call the police on you, accusing you of attempting assault o them (thank for cctv they came out of a locked room they locked to point fingers and continue to make out threats.)

There was a meeting one day, speaking in high tone like when greeting someone, very nice, poured coffee out for this gentleman, provided biscuits but after the meeting and as soon as the car went past the window this psychopath stood up said "what an asshole!" in a low msierable tone. I asked "why are going you calling him an asshole for?", low tone "Oh! nothing! nothing." and sat back down.

There was one time they were auctioning this sofa on ebay, and when using other family accounts to up the bidding and they ended winning their own item, so they turned to one of real bidders offering it and I think they got reported for that. They came me to frightened that they got reported and if the police could get involved and anything I can do.

Now when things don't go to the way the psychopath wants, they'd call the dad, and the dad will have a right go at sociopath to leave them alone threatening to cancel their money they injected in the firm and their trust fund.

Does that behaviour fit the description of a psychopath and sociopath?

Sorry I noticed I have made a lot of mistakes in this post and with the editing and I did double check before posting.

Maybe something not right with me.

[Black Phoenix]

I know of a family firm a bit like this with a psychopath and a sociopath.

There is a psychopath (the owner) and a sociopath (young family member). This sociopath is very paranoid and checks up on everybody finding out what they are, what they are doing but all in all seems to mean well and would try make friends with the workmen and appease everyone when possible but when things get bad they would step on anybody they can including their own family. This sociopath has this whiny voice and you'd feel sorry for them like they had a tough life and you'd want to go out of your way to help them in whatever way you can. They'd often question and say things many times in different ways where they needed a lot of reassuring.

There was driver that use to steal petrol, when he was caught one day filling up barrels on the cctv footage in the petrol station, the psychopath didn't call the police, he was telling him repeatedly that they were going to give him a pay rise and now that is being cancelled and he'll deduct the stolen petrol from his wages. The problem is, there were no pay rises ever discussed that month. They only do that when they are enticing men when they get new work contracts coming in. In fact they were talking about cutting all the men's wages as the work was drying up and less money coming in I believe they were doing this to make the driver feel bad. There were times were would accuse someone of playing mind games, being an emotional buy and being "passive aggressive" when "the family" would do exactly the same thing not just to the workmen but to each other.

Now this is where the psychopath protects the the sociopath from trouble.

The psychopath would not always let their feelings be known directly. They would do things indirectly when they can through other people. If they want something they wouldn't always tell the person directly they would go to other family members to get the workmen to change plans or do other stuff. Very shy like. They would also lay the blame on others when things go wrong and get angry and defensive when proven wrong. If a joke they say backfires they get angry too and do stuff like stamp their feet and talking a low grumpy voice that the joke is on them etc.. Also nobody is allowed to fart but them as they would take great offense.

Now the sociopath on this occasion understand this psychopath fully, so when the sociopath is present and there are possible signs that this psychopath is unhappy and is about to do something outrageous like explode, scream and hurl a whole loud of abuse at the next person in the room with them, the sociopath quickly takes them away on the early signs of when they show grumpiness such as a low tone voice and negative speak and he'd tell them what is about to happen, stay away and watch them gradually explode and then task them with other work in a different part of the building.

The sociopath would always be sending the workmen to checkup on this psychopath to see if they are happy in order for the firm to run smoothly but they would have some disagreements on work times, such as coming in late and leaving early. The sociopath would not allow psychopath from having lunch due to the limited hours they work but they still have their lunch when the sociopath is out of the office so the workmen or other people working in this office will be sent to checkup whether the psychopath are stopping to ear their lunch but they would know and tell them not to say anything.

Approaching this sociopath and getting direct answers out of them for things they say and don't mean, could lead them into, swearing, shouting and screaming, threatening to call the police on you, accusing you of attempting assault o them (thank for cctv they came out of a locked room they locked to point fingers and continue to make out threats.)

There was a meeting one day, speaking in high tone like when greeting someone, very nice, poured coffee out for this gentleman, provided biscuits but after the meeting and as soon as the car went past the window this psychopath stood up said "what an asshole!" in a low msierable tone. I asked "why are going you calling him an asshole for?", low tone "Oh! nothing! nothing." and sat back down.

There was one time they were auctioning this sofa on ebay, and when using other family accounts to up the bidding and they ended winning their own item, so they turned to one of real bidders offering it and I think they got reported for that. They came me to frightened that they got reported and if the police could get involved and anything I can do.

Now when things don't go to the way the psychopath wants, they'd call the dad, and the dad will have a right go at sociopath to leave them alone threatening to cancel their money they injected in the firm and their trust fund.

Does that behaviour fit the description of a psychopath and sociopath?

I only have one thing to say, stay away, very far away...

[MikeK]

I only have one thing to say, stay away, very far away...

Beat poet/writer William S. Burroughs had a "song" titled "Words of Advice For Young People".  In it he says "Avoid all fuckups...anything they have anything to do with winds up a disaster."  The trouble is, figuring out who the fuckups are *before* you're affected.

[Stray Electron]

I know of a family firm a bit like this with a psychopath and a sociopath.

There is a psychopath (the owner) and a sociopath (young family member). This sociopath is very paranoid and checks up on everybody finding out what they are, what they are doing but all in all seems to mean well and would try make friends with the workmen and appease everyone when possible but when things get bad they would step on anybody they can including their own family. This sociopath has this whiny voice and you'd feel sorry for them like they had a tough life and you'd want to go out of your way to help them in whatever way you can. They'd often question and say things many times in different ways where they needed a lot of reassuring.

There was driver that use to steal petrol, when he was caught one day filling up barrels on the cctv footage in the petrol station, the psychopath didn't call the police, he was telling him repeatedly that they were going to give him a pay rise and now that is being cancelled and he'll deduct the stolen petrol from his wages. The problem is, there were no pay rises ever discussed that month. They only do that when they are enticing men when they get new work contracts coming in. In fact they were talking about cutting all the men's wages as the work was drying up and less money coming in I believe they were doing this to make the driver feel bad. There were times were would accuse someone of playing mind games, being an emotional buy and being "passive aggressive" when "the family" would do exactly the same thing not just to the workmen but to each other.

Now this is where the psychopath protects the the sociopath from trouble.

The psychopath would not always let their feelings be known directly. They would do things indirectly when they can through other people. If they want something they wouldn't always tell the person directly they would go to other family members to get the workmen to change plans or do other stuff. Very shy like. They would also lay the blame on others when things go wrong and get angry and defensive when proven wrong. If a joke they say backfires they get angry too and do stuff like stamp their feet and talking a low grumpy voice that the joke is on them etc.. Also nobody is allowed to fart but them as they would take great offense.

Now the sociopath on this occasion understand this psychopath fully, so when the sociopath is present and there are possible signs that this psychopath is unhappy and is about to do something outrageous like explode, scream and hurl a whole loud of abuse at the next person in the room with them, the sociopath quickly takes them away on the early signs of when they show grumpiness such as a low tone voice and negative speak and he'd tell them what is about to happen, stay away and watch them gradually explode and then task them with other work in a different part of the building.

The sociopath would always be sending the workmen to checkup on this psychopath to see if they are happy in order for the firm to run smoothly but they would have some disagreements on work times, such as coming in late and leaving early. The sociopath would not allow psychopath from having lunch due to the limited hours they work but they still have their lunch when the sociopath is out of the office so the workmen or other people working in this office will be sent to checkup whether the psychopath are stopping to ear their lunch but they would know and tell them not to say anything.

Approaching this sociopath and getting direct answers out of them for things they say and don't mean, could lead them into, swearing, shouting and screaming, threatening to call the police on you, accusing you of attempting assault o them (thank for cctv they came out of a locked room they locked to point fingers and continue to make out threats.)

There was a meeting one day, speaking in high tone like when greeting someone, very nice, poured coffee out for this gentleman, provided biscuits but after the meeting and as soon as the car went past the window this psychopath stood up said "what an asshole!" in a low msierable tone. I asked "why are going you calling him an asshole for?", low tone "Oh! nothing! nothing." and sat back down.

There was one time they were auctioning this sofa on ebay, and when using other family accounts to up the bidding and they ended winning their own item, so they turned to one of real bidders offering it and I think they got reported for that. They came me to frightened that they got reported and if the police could get involved and anything I can do.

Now when things don't go to the way the psychopath wants, they'd call the dad, and the dad will have a right go at sociopath to leave them alone threatening to cancel their money they injected in the firm and their trust fund.

Does that behaviour fit the description of a psychopath and sociopath?

I only have one thing to say, stay away, very far away...

  I agree with BP, stay far far away!  I used to have to deal with people like that but I eventually decided that they were more trouble than they were worth (even some family members). So I simply started avoiding them and today my life is much quieter, much simpler and I get a lot more of my own projects done.  Life's too short to deal with idiots, Social Justice Warriors, psychopaths and sociopaths. Learn to avoid them.

[MrMobodies]

I tried to please everybody but I find I wasn't really helping them at all but getting them in more trouble.

For example, one time I was asked to automate some formulas on this spreadsheet to calculate the days spent from start to stop per job from this council. So I did that and they were all around the desk watching whilst this council person was explaining what he wanted me to do to the spreadsheet. So I filled in the columns that night.

A couple of weeks later the council person was asking me on the phone why the formulas in that column were missing and some with the 3 digit numbers were in there and he was not happy. The sociopath knew nothing apart from that there something wrong with the sheet and tried to blame me saying it was my fault and I was fixing it. So I restored all the formula's. I said we all make mistakes from time to time.

Some days later the psychopath asks me about me removing the figures they put in (where the formulas were to calculate the total days spent). The "psychopath" was the one inputting the data and is was their job to input and manage this spreadsheet.

They tried to blame me on that too saying I never told them about those formulas and they didn't understand, I said look you were all over me listening to what he wanted me to and watching everything I was doing.

Then the sociopath tells me the truth, "this is where honesty is not always the best policy mate etc.." they are capped at 15 days per job (use to be 20 days) and it is taking them between 20 to 40 days and if we don't make it look like we are within the cap they won't give us anymore work etc.

Anyway they asked me to "restore their lies" no problem I found a backup copy of the fabricated figures and they filled in the rest. I said next time, I'll generate the formula and you apply it and I'll teach you how to apply it so you are in control.

The sociopath told me everything was fine it was all over nothing to worry about and to stop being paranoid. I told them it is not fine, you are just buying time now that they know those formulas were removed.

The following Monday morning the sociopath was on the phone to this council man on the speaker phone and he did not sound  happy. I heard him briefly say as I was walked past "No more lying... no more lying!!!... you can't keep on lying to us and we're already being lenient with you ... etc"

I heard they got a little fine for it and that was it.

They loved their internet radio, the thing is they would have it loud and be on the phone engaged and it would be rude interrupting them when I couldn't think or hear calls I pickup (not sure how they can hear being so load and close).

I provided this stereo system, speakers, computer (internet radio), amplifier, sound cards a mixer and stations can changed via shortcuts, or itunes via (shairport) a floating volume slider (opensource thing I found on every desktop so they can turn it down if it is loud and a phone call comes in.

They'd bicker fight over that as well. One of them (another family member) says "It's like blooming disco in here can't we turn it down... I said you can do it via that slider on the desktop so they did). The sociopath in a whiny 'feel sorry for voice' across the room said, "It's my office!, my office mate, I own the building they don't, I can turn up and down..." so he turned it up really loud and the response from this other family member, "can't you disconnect that speaker", I said it will be half stereo or mono, replied "what's mono?". Week later "Why can't we have a little FM radio like every shop down this street. I said we did have one before and it was better turned off... As soon as the air conditioning came on next door we could hear it when buses go past we can hear it. (Before this persons time working there). Response I got "It is NOT! democratic." I said "It IS! democratic, you can turn it off, you can change radio stations, turn the volume up and down from any computer but it is between you lot to negotiate in between yourselves what you want.

One day I wired that sociopaths house up with network cable when they moved in. The wifi router would not go far and internal phone cable was causing trouble which I sorted out. There was a flood and an opportunity when they took the floors up to do it but I only knew late when they just about finishing the decorations. I provided each room with it's own access points and some network sockets to a switch but the difficulty I faced. The sociopath said... "Look mate, you ripping me 'house to bits" and "internet will never be good... it will never be good mate" I said well when it does become good, you won't have the infrastructure to support it.

They wanted be in the sky with nothing to support them.

I thought I find out what they wanted, find solutions to systematic issues, tried to make it as ideal as I could by thinking ahead but how wrong was I. They didn't understand and didn't seem to want to. I understand it was busy there but I felt so under appreciated.

I think that is the way they are and the treat each other like that but they seem very successful at what the do, the sociopath has this gift and skill. He knows when people are being dishonest and laughing behind his back and he'll say to everyone what is about to happen and to watch.

I don't intend to work for a family firm after that but I know not every family firm is going to be like that.

Back to Elizabeth Holmes.

https://news.sky.com/story/elizabeth-holmes-has-ambition-to-rise-again-despite-being-jailed-over-theranos-case-that-gripped-world-12750541

Elizabeth Holmes 'has ambition to rise again' despite being jailed over Theranos case ...
By Tom Acres, technology reporter
Saturday 19 November 2022 06:28, UK

"It's a bad bet to assume this is the last we've heard from Elizabeth Holmes," she told Sky News.
"She has the ambition to rise again and to do more.
...
 "I have reporting from a handful of sources who were not part of the lawsuit, who lost money in this story, but who ultimately have said they would back her again if she came back with a new idea."

Sources but which ones? After all the damage she has done and these faceless 'sources' are still backing her.
Shouldn't they be naming and shaming these sources?

So these so called sources 'would' back her again but I wonder with whose money, their own or other people's where the sources have influences in finding the gullible backers. Sounds to me like she has good connections into getting her opportunities and things.

[fourfathom]

https://news.sky.com/story/elizabeth-holmes-has-ambition-to-rise-again-despite-being-jailed-over-theranos-case-that-gripped-world-12750541
 "I have reporting from a handful of sources who were not part of the lawsuit, who lost money in this story, but who ultimately have said they would back her again if she came back with a new idea."

That sounds like something somebody who didn't want to admit that they had made a very stupid investment would say.  Or doesn't want to give lawsuit ammunition to the people who gave them money to invest.

[james_s]

Do psychopathic / sociopaths even feel social pressure? AFAIK they use it to control the world around them. Elizabeth Holmes' pregnancy is probably one of the worst examples of doing just that.

I don't think they do. I have dealt with a few people with BPD and a few others that I suspect have NPD although there is a lot of overlap of the symptoms of various disorders. BPD and NPD (Borderline and Narcissistic personality disorders) are particularly troublesome because these people create an alternate reality in their head to explain the way they feel, and to them that reality is the literal truth. They are very impulsive, essentially perpetual toddlers at an emotional level, the impact to others of their actions literally do not matter AT ALL, it is all about their wants and desires in the moment. They will lie, deflect and project, even in the face of irrefutable evidence. The vast majority of them believe they are completely fine and everyone else around them is crazy.

[tszaboo]

Do psychopathic / sociopaths even feel social pressure? AFAIK they use it to control the world around them. Elizabeth Holmes' pregnancy is probably one of the worst examples of doing just that.

I don't think they do. I have dealt with a few people with BPD and a few others that I suspect have NPD although there is a lot of overlap of the symptoms of various disorders. BPD and NPD (Borderline and Narcissistic personality disorders) are particularly troublesome because these people create an alternate reality in their head to explain the way they feel, and to them that reality is the literal truth. They are very impulsive, essentially perpetual toddlers at an emotional level, the impact to others of their actions literally do not matter AT ALL, it is all about their wants and desires in the moment. They will lie, deflect and project, even in the face of irrefutable evidence. The vast majority of them believe they are completely fine and everyone else around them is crazy.

Yeah, they do. Someone with NPD might feel extreme social pressure to be admired, and to be perceived as the best. Not all, but I think it's a type of NPD. Honestly, its just the best to avoid these people altogether, and cut them out from your life. Or be prepared to have constant emotional drain on you, or source of anger. It's scary, that the so-called "dark triad"  is like 3% in the population, and you are guaranteed to meet people like this. And some people with their behavior invite these to prey on them. Learning how to identify and control this is like the most important soft skill that I learned as an adult, because they are absolutely going to wreck your life if you let them.

[tom66]

I don't think they do. I have dealt with a few people with BPD and a few others that I suspect have NPD although there is a lot of overlap of the symptoms of various disorders. BPD and NPD (Borderline and Narcissistic personality disorders) are particularly troublesome because these people create an alternate reality in their head to explain the way they feel, and to them that reality is the literal truth. They are very impulsive, essentially perpetual toddlers at an emotional level, the impact to others of their actions literally do not matter AT ALL, it is all about their wants and desires in the moment. They will lie, deflect and project, even in the face of irrefutable evidence. The vast majority of them believe they are completely fine and everyone else around them is crazy.

Yup.  Narcissists are scary, and I'm unfortunate to know a couple.  Seriously the best thing anyone can do is to completely ignore them, if they are e.g. part of your family.  Don't argue, don't accept.  Just ignore.   No phone calls.  No social contacts.  If they talk to you, just give them the most minimal acknowledgement.   It's a lot harder to deal with if they're your boss or colleague.  Get out if you can in that case.

[nctnico]

BTW: It turns out Hulu has a video (TV no longer exists in my world) series about Elizabeth Holmes called 'The Dropout'.

[HighVoltage]

BTW: It turns out Hulu has a video (TV no longer exists in my world) series about Elizabeth Holmes called 'The Dropout'.

Definitely a good recommendation, I just watched all episodes.

It is fascinating of how she was able to fool so many people, especially people in high political positions.
I mean the politicians lie to us all the time and finally they got some of their own medicine.

The real story of Theranos and E.Holmes is tragic and amusing at the same time.

[Stray Electron]

The only thing that is going to help is having good laws & raise awareness to prevent scams and enough people in law enforcement to go after criminals.

The problem is that we don't always get good laws in the US.  Corporations control a lot.  They've even been granted the same status as people via the Citizens United suit.  We can't even appropriately tax rich people.  Take a look at what our tax rates *used* to be.  One of our political parties is determined to end organized human existence.

  Nice political rant but none of what you're carrying on about applies to the discussion at hand.

Actually it does. One of the main problems that allow people to setup companies that are basically a scam is the political unwillingness to put a halt to such pratices.

   You can't be serious!  Every state in the US and the US federal government all already have laws banning such practices.  Or did you miss the reason that we're even having this discussion?   I defy you to name one thing named in MikeK's rant that could have or would have absolutely prevented Holme's scheme.

   The real failure in this scheme was the same as in any other Con job. The "Victims" were greedy and thought that they could make a fast profit and didn't do their due diligence.   Yes, Holme's lies set up the situation, just like the lies that any Con man makes in order to set their trap; but it was the "victims" greed that made the whole scheme work.

[fourfathom]

The "Victims" were greedy and thought that they could make a fast profit and didn't do their due diligence.

It's likely that the investor "victims" initially "wanted to believe", and were were thinking that the success of Therenos relied on traditional Silicon Valley factors: the chips always get bigger/faster/cheaper, and software can do anything.  That, and the fact that the founder was a woman, which gave the investors major social brownie-points and diverted any traditional criticism.

The thing is, when the wheels started to fall off due to laws of physics, the investors should have pulled the plug.  Even better, they should have obtained / listened to advice from true experts in the field before investing more than just exploratory funds.

[PlainName]

The "Victims" were greedy and thought that they could make a fast profit and didn't do their due diligence.

The only reason anyone invests in anything is to make more money than otherwise. Literally, any investor is after making a fast profit. Some just play a bit safer than others, but ultimately it's all a risk. It's great to say they should have done due diligence (isn't this a favourite Internet meme, alongside 'do your own research') but just how far do they go? It's unsurprising that current experts say it's a scam, but then anything new turning up would be seen as the same (otherwise it'd already be done, right?). Did the space experts say Musk wouldn't be able to beat NASA to space taxis, or flood the entire world with satellite broadband? There are many examples where experts were suspicious of a startup but got shown it could be done after all.

Serious investors have their fingers in many pies - some you win, some your lose, and hopefully the wins counter the losses - and I seriously doubt that Thernanos diddling them out of some funds had them end up on the street. But that's no reason not to complain and at least try to get something out of it. Does it really matter, except to other whiners, that they believed what they were told? It's victim-blaming to be trashing them and, in effect, reducing the to opprobrium attached to the actual perpetrators of a scam.

[Nominal Animal]

The "Victims" were greedy and thought that they could make a fast profit and didn't do their due diligence.

The only reason anyone invests in anything is to make more money than otherwise. Literally, any investor is after making a fast profit.

No, not "fast", assuming you mean "fast" == "short term".

For example, pension fund investors better look at maximizing long term profits, instead of short term profits.

The worst kind of investors are high-frequency traders.  They really are trying to maximize short term profits, and care not a whit about whether the system can handle it or not.  In my opinion, HFT should absolutely be banned.

[MrMobodies]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11463257/Judge-recommends-pregnant-Elizabeth-Holmes-sent-minimum-security-prison-camp-TEXAS.html

Judge recommends Elizabeth Holmes is sent to minimum-security prison camp in TEXAS - 1,800 miles from her family in California - where the pregnant Theranos fraudster will have access to tennis courts and a running track

Holmes was sentenced last Friday to 11.25 years in prison following her conviction of fraud for her role peddling bad medical technology at Theranos
The disgraced 38-year-old tech entrepreneur is now pregnant with her second child and was hoping for an 18-month at home sentence
Judge Edward Davila has recommended that Holmes serve her sentence at a minimum-security women's prison in Bryan, Texas
The facility is 1,800 miles from her California-based family, which could make visitation difficult
By SOPHIE MANN FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

PUBLISHED: 22:14, 23 November 2022 | UPDATED: 22:14, 23 November 2022



A federal judge has recommended that Theranos Inc. founder and convicted fraudster Elizabeth Holmes serve her more than 11-year prison sentence in a minimum-security prison camp in Texas.

Holmes, who was sentenced on Friday, was told by US District Judge Edward Davila that her failure to accept responsibility for her crime would count against her. Despite being pregnant with her second child, she was subsequently sentenced to more than a decade behind bars and ordered to surrender in April. It is unknown how far along Holmes is, but she will, in all likelihood, give birth prior to her reporting date of April 27, 2023.

Davila has now recommended that Holmes be allowed family visitation at the low security camp, though she will be more than 1,800 miles away from her California-based partner, child and parents. The prison camp the judge recommended is in Bryan, Texas, about 100 miles north of Houston, where Holmes attended high school. It is designated for female inmates and currently houses about 540 inmates.Those serving time at the facility are allowed to accept multiple visitors on weekends.

According to the Wall Street Journal, the facility bares similarities to the one in West Virginia where Martha Stewart served time close to 20 years ago - the same one where former NXIVM president Nancy Salzman is now serving her three-and-a-half year sentence.

Holmes will have access to tennis courts and a running track. But, she will be forced to give up her signature all-black look in exchange for pastel green, gray and white outfits. Distance may make visitation hard for Holmes' family, whom she would be much closer to were she sent to the minimum-security prison in Dublin, California, which is just an hour drive outside of San Francisco. Actresses Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman, who were involved in the college admissions scandal, both served their short sentences ay the Dublin facility.

Holmes and her legal team were given 14 days to appeal the sentence. Her attorneys said they would seek to let her stay out of prison on bail pending the outcome of the appeal.

The judge will later hold a hearing determining how much money she will have to repay.

Federal prosecutors have also said that Holmes could receive close to a 15% reduction on prison time with good behavior, which would put her sentence at closer to 9.5 years with no possibility for parole.

In January, Holmes, 38, was convicted by a jury of four counts of criminal fraud for deceiving investors during her years long scheme to peddle bad blood testing technology at Theranos.

Following her conviction, Holmes became pregnant with her second child, which conservative commentator Megyn Kelly said she did in order to 'get less prison time.'

'I hate to agree with the Twitter mob, but they're angry about the pregnancy, suggesting she did that [on purpose],' Kelly said on her SiriusXM podcast Monday, when discussing Holmes' 11-year prison sentence.

Kelly said she understands 'the theory she did that for sympathy. 'She did that intentionally on the gamble that the judge would say, 'I won't throw the book at you for the sake of this child.'' But now, Kelly said, 'that child is going to be without its mother for the first 11 years of his or her life.' The host continued, 'You know that you're likely to go to prison, you know the odds of getting 18 months' house arrest are nil. No one's going to get that who committed these crimes and got convicted of them. 'I just don't understand. You get pregnant anyway?' she asked, rhetorically, noting: 'I, too, feel angry about it. 'I don't want to presume the motives, but the whole situation is a disaster.' Aiding Kelly's theory was the tech fraudster's legal team, which argued that Holmes deserved more lenient treatment because she is now a devoted mother.

During sentencing last week, Davila called the case 'troubling on so many levels.' 'Was there a loss of a moral compass here? The tragedy of this case is Ms. Holmes is brilliant.   'Failure is normal. But failure by fraud is not OK. What is the pathology of fraud? Is it the inability to accept responsibility? Perhaps that the cautionary tale to come from this case.' Addressing the court Holmes broke down in tears, saying: 'I stand before you taking responsibility for Theranos. I loved Theranos. It was my life's work.

'There are so many things I would do differently if I had the chance. I tried to realize my dream too quickly. Yesterday I tried to change the world. Today, I'm wise, and want to change myself.'  Holmes' husband, hotel group heir Billy Evans begged for mercy for his partner, citing the couple's young son and the baby on the way. The sentence imposed by U.S. District Judge Edward Davila was shorter than the 15-year penalty requested by federal prosecutors but far tougher than the leniency her legal team sought for the mother of a year-old son with another child on the way.

Well that's a start but low security and sports like a field day?


Looks to me like the mother in law doesn't seem to look very happy but more like angry at her in that photo and she's all smiling.

I wonder what is her next course of action going to be:
1: Reappeal sentence.
2: Delay the court even more by asking the prosecutors for things that they have to wait for like documents.
3  Ask for sentence to be quashed.
4: Have another baby
Goto 1:

[SiliconWizard]

Meanwhile, scam startups are continuing to flourish all over the place, as we can see in the dodgy tech section (which probably covers only 1% of them all) and all attention is on Elizabeth Holmes.