Discussing the usage of the TEA thread

[EEVblog]

<snip>
Somebody wondered why TEA repair is not in repair sections.
For that bd said once that there's no sense to have a thread to say I changed a diode.
And if med is restoring old Tek there's nothing unusual that something needs to be repaired.
TEA is different.
<snip>

There are many actual repairs that were posted bit by bit as the various stages were carried out, in the TEA thread and at the same time, also posted in a dedicated thread in the "repair" section, so for many of the repairs in TEA that were spread across multiple pages, often separated by days, weeks or more, all dependent on the availability of spares or while seeking another donor carcass to rob parts from to make a working item from 2 or more items. As these parts showed up, another installment of the repair would be posted into the TEA thread and the dedicated thread in repair section, so people who use the search facility should be able to locate that particular repair with the sections all in chronological order without all the other getting in the way.

Its not rocket science, I've used the search system for information that I needed on some repairs.

Most people who moved from TEA though seem to agree that it's better to have the ability to create threads. So that was the obvious solution here as well. After all, that's what forums are for.
I think what happened is that this "TEA community" just got so used to using the one big thread that they didn't want to change anything, they just got used to it. People don't like change.
But obviously what was needed was it's own forum section with it's own moderator if they thought moderation was a problem.

Frankly, I think the moderation was only a problem because it was one big enormous thread, and there were too many people wanting to use it with different views on what should be allowed in there and what shouldn't.
If it was broken down into threads then people could more easily ignore threads they are not interested in and they wouldn't have been miffed about a couple of pages of talk about someones bunyin or something. Just like the forum as a whole has operated sucessfully for over 12 years now and hasn't been destroyed by over or under moderation.

That fact that we are discussing how to use ONE THREAD in forum is enough evidence that one thread was the wrong way to go. Perhaps all that was needed was one Test Equipment section for the "normies" and a Test Equipment Anonymous section for the hard core totally addicted.

[mnementh]

*weary*

I'm going to ask again:

All we ever wanted was to be left alone to play. If you place the TEAnonymous thread in the correct OT section, where it will not be bludgeoning those interested in On-Topic discussions, some of us might begin to peek in and contribute from time to time, once the bruises start to fade and the cuts stop bleeding. If it is made clear to the "complainers" that TEANonymous is an OT thread and complaints purely about OT will be given exactly as much consideration as such frivolous complaints deserve, that would be a great start.

If the complainers want to have a purely ON-TOPIC discussion about TE and their TE projects, let them start such a thread instead of taking it away from the community who started TEAnonymous.

We already did as you asked regarding the usual 3rd rail topics; even when we did touch on such points we made very certain it was only briefly and did not become long conversation. That I feel is a reasonable compromise.

I loved the TEAnonymous thread... it was where my friends were, and it was where we played, and it was where I kept my toys. But as long as we have the threat of wholesale moderation of content simply for being OT hanging over our heads, we will not feel it is safe to just play... particularly when I compare what we posted to current content. 

Again, for probably the dozenth time now, this all blew up while I wasn't watching. I literally came in one day to find everyone had taken their bat and ball and gone home.

Because I didn't know it was all happening, there was absolutely nothing I could have done unless someone alterted me to the concerns, and sadly no one did. If they did then I would have offered what I have offered now, your own space with your own moderator, or something. I understand exactly what you are saying, I really do, but that does no good when it's after the fact of people leaving, I can't do anything about it now.

The problem is that it seems that everyone in TEA assumed that I knew what was going on and I was secretely watching and ignoring it all from the sidelines and lettign it all happen.
So please, in the future anyone else who is having issues like this on the forum, email me directly with your concerns. If someone had simply done that then I think all this could have been averted.
I know to you this sounds like I'm just blaming you and the others, but that's not the case, it's simply the facts of the circumstances of how all this went down.

Umm... okay... How does any of this have anything to do with what is quoted above?

All I asked is that our TEAnonymous thread be moved to some OT section where it so obviously belongs. 

This would go a long way as a gesture of goodwill. It is something that could be done now.

All the talk of subforums and making additional threads is awesome... and we might even take advantage... if we had some reason to believe the whole thing wasn't going just happen again in a month or three with a whole new crop of complainers drawn in.

Putting the TEAnonymous thread in the OT section removes that argument.

And just to make it clear, I'm responding here because that is what you told us to do when you visited our counterpart thread.

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 11:21 PM, EEVblog wrote:

If you want to talk to me, do so on the EEVBlog forum thread on the topic, I won't lock it, you are free to discuss it in perpetuity there.

mnem

[tautech]

All I asked is that our TEAnonymous thread be moved to some OT section where it so obviously belongs. 


Putting the TEAnonymous thread in the OT section removes that argument.

Yep, here:
Off Topic Hobbies

As far away from the TE board as is possible .......Moderator for such TBD.
However bitseeker can do this Move Topic as OP and a sticky link will still remain in the TE board.

[bsfeechannel]

Yep, here:
Off Topic Hobbies

As far away from the TE board as is possible .......Moderator for such TBD.
However bitseeker can do this Move Topic as OP and a sticky link will still remain in the TE board.

I second that.

[EEVblog]

All I asked is that our TEAnonymous thread be moved to some OT section where it so obviously belongs. 
This would go a long way as a gesture of goodwill. It is something that could be done now.

That's what I offered days ago, yet no one seemed interested?
Ok, fine, I'll do it right now, give me a few minutes

All the talk of subforums and making additional threads is awesome... and we might even take advantage... if we had some reason to believe the whole thing wasn't going just happen again in a month or three with a whole new crop of complainers drawn in.

Putting the TEAnonymous thread in the OT section removes that argument.

Just to be clear, I can't just move the TEA thread to an "OT section". There is no "OT section" on the forum.
People have voted many times against having a completely OT section of the forum where "anything goes".
TEA has to be moved somewhere, so I will create new  section under the Other Hobbies section down the bottom, then you have your own section where you can post multiple threads.
Bitseeker as the thread owner can then move it there himself if he wants to.

[EEVblog]

There you go.
I renamed the section "Other Hobbies"
Technically I think TEA belongs under Test Equipment, but it's kinda confusing to newbies to have Test Equipment and Test Equipment Anonymous sections, they won't know where to post.
I've also just shorted it to TEA so the URL is better, and it again lessens confusion.

Remember, the rules of the forum haven't changed, off-topic stuff generally isn't allowed, just like the rules on your Groups.io TEA forum. But if no one reports stuff then, just like hte rest of the forum moderators won't even bother to visit unless they are interested in the content.
If you want a moderator appointed for just that section then I can do that.

But now that you can create threads there, it's kinda split for forum a bit having test equipment stuff in two sections now, just essentially with different players. But hey, you asked for it. People can always use search.

[tautech]

There you go.
I renamed the section "Other Hobbies"

You did and created some confusion as just a little while ago it was Off Topic Hobbies as I copy/pasted it to be sure it was right however although you have renamed it its previous URL will remain as proof of the previous name.

Technically I think TEA belongs under Test Equipment, but it's kinda confusing to newbies to have Test Equipment and Test Equipment Anonymous sections, they won't know where to post.

Tough titty I say that a feature you introduced a few years back should confuse a Newbie....everything confuses newbies !
Instead you could link the introductory thread I did on Move Topic into the few Newbies Read This threads to help them get up to speed as the only member I see use it frequently is Halycon which uses it with great effect to draw attention to some topics.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/what_s-this-move-topic-icon-all-about/

[Dundarave]

You might want to consider defining a “constitution” for this new thread, something that sets out, in general, its purpose, what’s acceptable and what is not.  Thus avoiding the “drift” from the purpose originally claimed for the first TEA thread, which apparently changed as the expectations of more and more users made themselves known.

Just a thought, else there’s nothing to stop the same drama from playing out again in the years to come.

[EEVblog]

You might want to consider defining a “constitution” for this new thread, something that sets out, in general, its purpose, what’s acceptable and what is not.  Thus avoiding the “drift” from the purpose originally claimed for the first TEA thread, which apparently changed as the expectations of more and more users made themselves known.

Just a thought, else there’s nothing to stop the same drama from playing out again in the years to come.

Correct. To quote Snake Plissken, welcome to the human race.
They can have their own moderator if they want. If it turns to crap then they can blame the moderator they appointed.

[EEVblog]

There you go.
I renamed the section "Other Hobbies"

You did and created some confusion as just a little while ago it was Off Topic Hobbies as I copy/pasted it to be sure it was right however although you have renamed it its previous URL will remain as proof of the previous name.

What's your point?
Another "gotcha Dave!"?

Yes it was labelled "Off Topic Hobbies", but I don't want to give the impression that the forum rules have suddenly changed to "anything goes" and that this is the section some people have asked for and the majority of the forum user have voted down before - an "Off Topic general chat section" where they can talk about anything they want without any rules. That's NOT what this is and I don't want to encourage that.
Even the vaunted Groups.io TEA group has these rules:

[Black Phoenix]

Dave, why not rename the "other hobbies" section as "other communities?"

I know that cooking is hobby by the forum base model, but TEA was not at it's inception, it was as some users called a "Pub kinda experience“ so a community of liked minded uses.

[pcprogrammer]

All the above is nice in some way, but without, what someone mentioned, a "constitution" it might derail over and over again.

A benefit I see from the move to a separate section is that there can also be multiple threads to discus problems in the main thread, without to much disruption of the main forum. Although the posts will still popup in the general new posts list.

As an example the mentioning of the latest talk about "OrCad" being off topic, is it an idea to use the "take it outside" pup analogy to handle such problems.

What I mean is that when a contributor or visitor of the main thread feels something should go in a separate thread or that something is so far off topic or in violation with the general rules that they create a separate thread to discuss this, and put a single post in the main thread to invite the parties concerned to join in this new thread. The bouncers way of take it outside please.

A moderator can do the same when alerted by someone that there is a problem. Only as a last resort the moderator can start removing posts that do not belong.

It all of course stand and falls with the users will and ability to abide to this "constitution" and not resort to taunting the authorities.

[EEVblog]

All the above is nice in some way, but without, what someone mentioned, a "constitution" it might derail over and over again.

Then they can create one and their moderator can pin it as the top thread.
I've been accused of letting this whole thing happen, and not understanding the "TEA community". It's not my place to do it, and if I did I'd just get criticised for it.

A benefit I see from the move to a separate section is that there can also be multiple threads to discus problems in the main thread, without to much disruption of the main forum. Although the posts will still popup in the general new posts list.
As an example the mentioning of the latest talk about "OrCad" being off topic, is it an idea to use the "take it outside" pup analogy to handle such problems.

Same problem with the rest of the forum, nothing new here. There is an Ignore Boards feature:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=ignoreboards

[EEVblog]

Dave, why not rename the "other hobbies" section as "other communities?"
I know that cooking is hobby by the forum base model, but TEA was not at it's inception, it was as some users called a "Pub kinda experience“ so a community of liked minded uses.

Sure, done, unless people have objections.

[pcprogrammer]

All that is left then is for bitseeker to move the thread and write up a constitution

[capt bullshot]

Starting a new thread named "TEA" anywhere within Dave's forum is pointless to me. As long as I haven't been pointed there, and as long as I didn't leave at least one post there in reaction, it won't show up in the "Show new replies to your posts" view. This particular view is the one I'm using 90% or more of the time here, and sometime I have a look at "Show unread threads since last visit", and low posting frequency threads can take quite a long time to show up when I'm occasionally looking there.
It happens rarely (once or twice a year) that I browse through the topics. So this is the way the TEA thread worked (or ATM still works) for me, and the groups.io does work in a similar way by dumping all new messages into my inbox, regardless of topic, hashtag, thread or whatever. If I see something interesting, I might jump in, usually I don't care the topic at all - this works fine for already on-topic threads that I occasionally jump into here at Dave's. And it works the way it worked (and I really liked that way) with the TEA thread. It may happen the posting frequency with this method of following a forum or thread gets too high, this wasn't the case for me at the TEA thread. If that happens, I look for methods to organize my method of following, but won't complain to the owner/moderators, since they don't force that on me.
Otherwise, if some authority (e.g. at work) forces me (or expects me) to gather daily information from many places (like email, chat, video conferences, collaboration places, file shares) but isn't able to present that in a way that I can digest, I start complaining loudly, or if that doesn't work, ignoring most of the incoming information - what is really important will be repeated in a more directed way. But this doesn't apply to places that I like to visit during some spare time.

just my 0.05 (Euro cents)

[EEVblog]

Starting a new thread named "TEA" anywhere within Dave's forum is pointless to me. As long as I haven't been pointed there, and as long as I didn't leave at least one post there in reaction, it won't show up in the "Show new replies to your posts" view. This particular view is the one I'm using 90% or more of the time here, and sometime I have a look at "Show unread threads since last visit", and low posting frequency threads can take quite a long time to show up when I'm occasionally looking there.

As I linked above, there is an Ignore Boards feature. You can ignore every board except the TEA section, and then you'll only get TEA board related poast displayed in Unread and New Replies feature.
Almost as if the rest of the forum doesn't exist.
just click here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=ignoreboards

[gnavigator1007]

As someone that is primarily a lurker (not a complainer lurker), I can't help but wonder if some of the TEA drama was caused by the frequency of posts at times when there is overall less activity on the forum. If I'm not here because I'm checking something I received a notification for, I'll usually check recent posts first. I'm here often enough that I recall multiple occasions where almost everything in the EEVblog Electronics Community Forum - Info Center --> Recent Posts section was a TEA post. Never bothered me, but I can understand others being annoyed if they checked it out and found the discussion happening to be off topic. Might there be a way to set a timespan for that section and eliminate duplicate topics within a timeframe?

[capt bullshot]

Thanks, didn't know about that feature. But I don't want to ignore everything but the TEA ATM.

[EEVblog]

Might there be a way to set a timespan for that section and eliminate duplicate topics within a timeframe?

No such option exists.

[bitseeker]

I'm not sure what's happening here. Maybe it's a misunderstanding, I don't know. So, I'll make this succinct:

Test Equipment Anonymous (a.k.a. TEA) has moved to https://groups.io/g/tea

Thanks, everyone.

[EEVblog]

I'm not sure what's happening here. Maybe it's a misunderstanding, I don't know. So, I'll make this succinct:
Test Equipment Anonymous (a.k.a. TEA) has moved to https://groups.io/g/tea
Thanks, everyone.

mnementh asked me to create a new TEA section so I created it. If no one uses it I'll just delete it.
The TEA thread was started by you so I didn't move it, left that decision to you. If you don't move it then it remains where it is. Heaps of people are still using it every day.

[bitseeker]

mnementh asked me to create a new TEA section so I created it. If no one uses it I'll just delete it.
The TEA thread was started by you so I didn't move it, left that decision to you. If you don't move it then it remains where it is. Heaps of people are still using it every day.

I'll refrain from attempting to re-interpret what he has written. He may come by in due course to do so.

As for the thread, I believe I've said this previously, but I can't remember where anymore. In order to minimize confusion and recurrence of the same, similar, or (heaven forbid) a new form of friction or complaints, the thread should not continue because it is not the way EEVblog works. On-topic posts belong in their corresponding forum whether that's Test Equipment, Repairs, General Technical Chat, or something else. Why continue to bury them in the old TEA thread? Is that what EEVblog really wants to happen to its content?

[EEVblog]

As for the thread, I believe I've said this previously, but I can't remember where anymore. In order to minimize confusion and recurrence of the same, similar, or (heaven forbid) a new form of friction or complaints, the thread should not continue because it is not the way EEVblog works. On-topic posts belong in their corresponding forum whether that's Test Equipment, Repairs, General Technical Chat, or something else. Why continue to bury them in the old TEA thread? Is that what EEVblog really wants to happen to its content?

TEA is one thread on a very large forum. If people still want to use it then I'm not going to shut it down. Like I said, there are still many posts a day and many active happy users there. If that's what people want to do (continue in one thread), why should anyone care or try to stop them from posting in there?

If you apply that same thinking, TEA should have been shut down years ago. Why do it now?

[bitseeker]

Exactly the answer I expected. I'm done explaining. It's time to move forward, not in circles.