Discussing the usage of the TEA thread

[Brumby]

It should never have been a sticky though as I think they should be left for threads with info relevant for the entire forum or sub-board.

The sticky could indeed have been mistake, as it would help newbies come into it thinking it's the place the ask questions, when untimately is seem to be the place a few dozen ver yactive members hang out and shoot the breeze about test equipment (mostly).

I don't believe it being a sticky has anything to do with anything.  Just a strawman argument, IMO.

The TEA thread is defined by it's content, not its location.

[Black Phoenix]

As for maintaining an index of equipment/topics on the first post, not sure about that. If something posted warrants an index, perhaps it should be a new thread in itself which can point to the posts in the thread it's related to. In any case we no longer have anyone maintaining the index that bitseeker created and it will fall into disrepair.

My 2cents:
I think that regarding this, any and every repair/refurbished made in acquired equipments should have a parent thread open in their respective subforum, even if it is a copy of what was written in the TEA global thread.

That way its not only easy for search and index as also for following the full process that in some cases can go into lots of posts scattered along pages, mixed between other posts of other equipments.

Not only that most users who are TEA have a big backlog of equipment to refurbish, that goes as they get parts needed or discover the root of the problem.

[EEVblog]

On the other TEA forum site someone posted this:

Have a look around and you'll see how we've utilized the breathing room to accommodate a variety of discussions. It has practically exploded with life. Now, the structure enables folks to follow what they like and ignore what they don't. It's much more manageable and enjoyable for everyone.

I'll repeat my response here:

I can't see how this is any different to the EEVblog?
If some were sick of the one big TEA thread then why not just start different threads?
You effectively have the same rules here as the EEVBlog, so what's the difference? I honestly don't get it.
I could even make an entire TEA subsection on the EEVblog if it's that important to have your own "space", but nobody ever even bothered to ask. Heck, it could even have it's own moderator and be invite only if needed.

[EEVblog]

As per the other TEA forum, it seems that at least one person is pissed off that people where trying to explain to me what was happening in the TEA thread and I "didn't listen" or ignored the whole thing.
This is not true. I literally had no idea any discussion was taking place in TEA because I don't read nor frequent the TEA thread. First thing i heard about any of this was when I was allerted to this thread here that was already a dozen pages deep. I posted a few minutes after eventually seeing this thread.

When big shit like this is going down on the forum, do me and everyone a favour and don't assume that I know what's going on. My daily use on the forum is limited to a few threads I'm interested in and the occasional browse of new ones. TEA is not one of them.

I get the same moderator report email alerts as the other mods, but the others are so quick to respond that I rarely get a chance to see what went down, so I just assume it was taken care of and everyone went back their merry way.

[Ice-Tea]

0.02$ and sample size n=1 and all that but I haven't voted and i won't because

- it's difficult to capture the complexity of this in a simple poll. It feels awkard reducing it to that.
- voting implies to some degree and somehow attributing blame (at least it does in my head) and I don't feel the need for it.
- kinda pointless. What's done is done.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I could even make an entire TEA subsection on the EEVblog if it's that important to have your own "space", but nobody ever even bothered to ask. Heck, it could even have it's own moderator and be invite only if needed.

There has never been a head honcho ever so eager to adapt the forum to user whims.

[EEVblog]

I could even make an entire TEA subsection on the EEVblog if it's that important to have your own "space", but nobody ever even bothered to ask. Heck, it could even have it's own moderator and be invite only if needed.

There has never been a head honcho ever so eager to adapt the forum to user whims.

Is that a complaint?

In that case it seems that I can't win.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I could even make an entire TEA subsection on the EEVblog if it's that important to have your own "space", but nobody ever even bothered to ask. Heck, it could even have it's own moderator and be invite only if needed.

There has never been a head honcho ever so eager to adapt the forum to user whims.

Is that a complaint?

In that case it seems that I can't win.

Sorry. I did stare at that wondering how many more double negs I could shove into the statement.

I've only ever seen you move mountains to try and accommodate people on here.

[EEVblog]

I've only ever seen you move mountains to try and accommodate people on here.

I literally created a cooking section because a few people wanted it.

[pcprogrammer]

On the other TEA forum site someone posted this:

Have a look around and you'll see how we've utilized the breathing room to accommodate a variety of discussions. It has practically exploded with life. Now, the structure enables folks to follow what they like and ignore what they don't. It's much more manageable and enjoyable for everyone.

I can't see how this is any different to the EEVblog?

The difference is the number of members. It is the select group that felt mistreated by the moderators, with a couple of their best mates that are now enjoying their new found place without "pesky moderators" to hinder them. They just were and are looking through pink glasses. The "pesky moderators" are their fellow members and not the actual moderators. The latter are just the tools needed to do the job. And they are also the ones that get the crap poured over them. And that is a shame.

To some extend I get it, because it hurts your feelings when you get "moderated", but that is part of life, and a reasonable and sane person should be able to get over it, accept it was needed and go on with breathing.

When the new place gets bigger membership, it will run into the same problems when active members start to get annoyed with some of the crap floating around. Or maybe even sooner when some of the best mates get fed up with the crap of just a couple. Because how many dragons can you take.

Edit: fixed typo

[Ed.Kloonk]

I've only ever seen you move mountains to try and accommodate people on here.

I literally created a cooking section because a few people wanted it.

Exactly. I think most realise that you're copping the spat-out-dummy in the face cos you're there not because of a fault.

[pcprogrammer]

The thing is, there is no pleasing everyone possible here. It is just as in "real" live. To many different ego's, and you can't please them all.

[Ed.Kloonk]

The thing is, there is no pleasing everyone possible here. It is just as in "real" live. To many different ego's, and you can't please them all.

The cat owner's appreciation thread is a good example of self-goverance. There's a unwritten rule about going into the weeds too much and there's a couple of guard dogs(!) to keeps us all in check.

[Brumby]

0.02$ and sample size n=1 and all that but I haven't voted and i won't because

- it's difficult to capture the complexity of this in a simple poll. It feels awkard reducing it to that.
- voting implies to some degree and somehow attributing blame (at least it does in my head) and I don't feel the need for it.

Fair enough.

- kinda pointless.

I wouldn't go quite that far.  For all the reservations one may have about quantitative value, it does have a qualitative value - and that is the opinion is not all one-sided.

[Ed.Kloonk]

- kinda pointless.

I wouldn't go quite that far.  For all the reservations one may have about quantitative value, it does have a qualitative value - and that is the opinion is not all one-sided.

My problem with the poll is the questions posed in the poll should have been in their own poll. I mean, how do we really know the poll itself isn't part of some conspiracy?

Jokes aside, the response curve looks about right.

edit: no pun intended.

[Brumby]

Sometimes I worry about you....

[pcprogrammer]

It should never have been a sticky though as I think they should be left for threads with info relevant for the entire forum or sub-board.

The sticky could indeed have been mistake, as it would help newbies come into it thinking it's the place the ask questions, when untimately is seem to be the place a few dozen ver yactive members hang out and shoot the breeze about test equipment (mostly).

I don't believe it being a sticky has anything to do with anything.  Just a strawman argument, IMO.

The TEA thread is defined by it's content, not its location.

Again, just my opinion. I think that the importance of the TEA thread is overrated.

Yes the thread is defined by its content, and that content is a lot of therapeutic talk accompanying the gathering of test equipment. I have the feeling that, it being used as the best seller of the EEVBlog forum, makes people believe it is the number one place to find the information about their precious equipment.

And there is were they are wrong. It is much more the whole forum, and not the TEA thread that is the place to find the valuable information.

Sure a lot of knowledgeable people are active in that one thread, and some only there, but to my believe one would be better of starting a new thread with a specific question then to enter into the TEA thread to hope for an answer there.

I also had a bit of a feeling that others where not that welcome in the TEA thread, but that could be just me.

[EEVblog]

The difference is the number of members. It is the select group that felt mistreated by the moderators, with a couple of their best mates that are now enjoying their new found place without "pesky moderators" to hinder them. They just were and are looking through pink glasses. The "pesky moderators" are their fellow members and not the actual moderators. The latter are just the tools needed to do the job. And they are also the ones that get the crap poured over them. And that is a shame.

To some extend I get it, because it hurts your feelings when you get "moderated", but that is part of life, and a reasonable and sane person should be able to get over it, accept it was needed and go on with breathing.

When the new place gets bigger membership, it will run into the same problems when active members start to get annoyed with some of the crap floating around. Or maybe even sooner when some of the best mates get fed up with the crap of just a couple. Because how many dragons can you take.

Yes, they will have the same problems when it grows, it's inevitable.
What is obvious now is that the TEA thread was so huge, and was inhabbited by maybe only a few donens really active "members" that it was always not going to work in the end. I honestly never undersood how that one thread handled all that volume and still stayed together.
What is needed is another section dedicated to the TEA group, with it's own moderator, and ironically put outside the Product/Test equipment section.
I have offered to put it in the Other Hobbies section which sits alone with a small Cooking group. Sections can have their own moderators, SMF allows that. We'll see if "they" are happy with that.
Apparently a thread moderator was discussed the other week, but because I don't read the thread I never saw it.

There is clearly a small group of members who thought of themselves as a min-community, and I'm happy to accomodate them in a seperate section just like Cooking.
Obviously I can't read all sections of the forum, but if there are any other mini-communities like this on the forum please let me know.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I also had a bit of a feeling that others where not that welcome in the TEA thread, but that could be just me.

It sure does have a old school IRC feel to it. IRC whizzes past and isn't organized at all. It's one of the reasons why forums took off.

edit:

Just to expand on the above and clean up the quotes, chat rooms participants were very against forums. The idea of leaving a question and bouncing without 'hanging out' was considered very rude.

[wilfred]

It should never have been a sticky though as I think they should be left for threads with info relevant for the entire forum or sub-board.

I don't believe it being a sticky has anything to do with anything.  Just a strawman argument, IMO.

The TEA thread is defined by it's content, not its location.

Sometimes one forgets that expressing opinions via text can be somewhat lacking.  It can be like trying to appreciate opera via teletype.

I don't think it being a sticky was significant either but I still maintain the view. Definitely too minor a point to classify it as a strawman argument.

[EEVblog]

Again, just my opinion. I think that the importance of the TEA thread is overrated.

Yes the thread is defined by its content, and that content is a lot of therapeutic talk accompanying the gathering of test equipment. I have the feeling that, it being used as the best seller of the EEVBlog forum, makes people believe it is the number one place to find the information about their precious equipment.

And there is were they are wrong. It is much more the whole forum, and not the TEA thread that is the place to find the valuable information.

The TEA is an oddity, a thread of such gargantuan proportions that's it's completely intimidating to anyone that enters.
I use it as an example of how obsessed people are about test equipment.
The forum value of course lies in the entire Test Equipment and other sections of the forum.

Sure a lot of knowledgeable people are active in that one thread, and some only there, but to my believe one would be better of starting a new thread with a specific question then to enter into the TEA thread to hope for an answer there.

Sure, that would be my advice. The TEA has way too many tangent and ongoing discussion to be useful as a general newbie question sections. And it would defeat the entire prupose of forums, which is to provide thread for different questions and topics.

[BU508A]

I also had a bit of a feeling that others where not that welcome in the TEA thread, but that could be just me.

That is not true. Whenever (mostly) someone new showed up and introduced himself he got a nice welcome there.
I'd never the impression, that somebody wouldn't be welcome to TEA.

Some examples:

Code: [Select]

https://www.google.com/search?q=mnemnth+aardvak+neverending+taco+site%3Awww.eevblog.com%2Fforum%2Ftestgear%2Ftest-equipment-anonymous-%28tea%29-group-therapy-thread

[tautech]

So what is that old saying.....a picture says a thousand words yet if we are to expressly follow your lead and not clutter the forum with a tonne of wasted visual space we'd not be linking any of your videos into posts. 


And a poll, seriously and after the fact. 
And you think poll results are to be a true and accurate representation of members views ?
A week ago it sure would have been a fine idea but now the horse has bolted after excessive use of the whip.

You are consistently one of the most antagonistic members on this forum, especially towards me. I saw what you said in the other TEA forum. And here you having another shot at me again even though I'm trying to sort this out. As a result, your opinion means very little to me, not that there is value at all in what you just posted, it's just slagging me off.

Please accept my apologies Dave as it's been a very stressful week here on the blog to see such good friends of some years leave and take their knowledge and likely future contributions with them for which I believe the forum is much the poorer.

Still like you I'd rather this episode didn't happen and appreciate your attempts to patch relations with the chaps on the other TEA forum.

With a heavy heart I'll pull my head in.

[pcprogrammer]

There is clearly a small group of members who thought of themselves as a min-community, and I'm happy to accomodate them in a seperate section just like Cooking.
Obviously I can't read all sections of the forum, but if there are any other mini-communities like this on the forum please let me know.

It might have solved the problem if that was done, but then still the general rules would still apply, and at some point someone would have taken offense about something, and it might still have blown up. It happens within regular families too. Why should this forum be any different. Fortunately most of the members here are level headed, but we are all humans, with human traits, and get into "fights" once in a while. It is how we deal with it afterwards that counts.

Here it has been dealt with by leaving to form a new forum. I wish them well, but won't be joining them. TEA in itself is not my thing. Electronics related programming is. Plenty enough of that here on this forum. With enough of a side dish in "social studies" to keep it interesting.

[Halcyon]

It's just that a handful of people (9 according to the poll) are fed up enough with the moderation of the TEA thread to leave the forum or think about leaving the forum over it.

The Moderators will always get the blame - but that is because they are the public face of the rest of the membership when that membership says "enough". .... and that's not even taking into account the attitude of those who's self-righteousness and "entitlement" ignored the historical precepts and requests to ease back.

I'll just add that in 99% of cases, the moderators here don't respond by removing posts or otherwise, unless someone else reports it first. I don't know about Simon and Geoff, but I don't even look in most of the topics, I stick to the ones that interest me. We don't go looking for things to moderate. And even then, when posts get reported, a significant number of them are ignored. Not because they were false reports, but we typically let people say what they want, even if it's rude or a little insulting.

If the way I moderate seems wrong to you, please, tell me and I'll take your points on-board. But the vast majority of people say "thank you", even via PM from time to time.