Discussing the usage of the TEA thread

[Brumby]

Maybe off topic but now you mention it: what really takes up a huge amount of space is quoting a meter long post just to add one sentence! IMO that's much worse than posting a video, and a video is much easier to skip than a totally unnecessary multi-screen long quote. Yeah, as you can see it's been annoying me for a long time.

That's an annoyance to me as well - which is why I will only quote what is essential to my point.  Other members have done likewise, including changing the size of images to reduce the impact - a practice I have also adopted.

It's not a universal practice yet ... let's call it a work in progress.

[EEVblog]

Maybe off topic but now you mention it: what really takes up a huge amount of space is quoting a meter long post just to add one sentence! IMO that's much worse than posting a video, and a video is much easier to skip than a totally unnecessary multi-screen long quote. Yeah, as you can see it's been annoying me for a long time.

That's an annoyance to me as well - which is why I will only quote what is essential to my point.  Other members have done likewise, including changing the size of images to reduce the impact - a practice I have also adopted.
It's not a universal practice yet ... let's call it a work in progress.

A gentle reminder to a full-quoter is sometimes good. They may have never thought about it before. And as always, leding by example is the best way on the forum.

[PA0PBZ]

A gentle reminder to a full-quoter is sometimes good. They may have never thought about it before. And as always, leding by example is the best way on the forum.

I'm a bit shy of doing that, I don't post often in that thread and don't want to be seen as the wise guy that's going to tell people what to do, but I guess you are right and I should have.

[Muttley Snickers]

I post a link to the odd video now and again but not to any excess and only in the context of the discussion. The posting of ridiculously huge inline images by people annoys the hell out of me and regularly causes my tv to freeze which then requires a restart.   

I would just like to say that gnif was an excellent moderator, I may not post much on the forum but do read and monitor it daily. I also regularly report many instances of spam posts which gnif has always promptly and diligently addressed.   

[PA0PBZ]

In addition to the poll (I voted back off a bit) I'd like to point to something I posted earlier in this thread, which could maybe handle the problem:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4376380/#msg4376380

[EEVblog]

In addition to the poll (I voted back off a bit) I'd like to point to something I posted earlier in this thread, which could maybe handle the problem:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4376380/#msg4376380

I don't see how simply moving it helps? 

[EEVblog]

One thing I can guarantee is that even if everyone votes to stop all moderation in the TEA thread and we do that, there will come a point when one person dopes so much damage and ruins it that
 people previously anti-moderation will be begging us to moderate that person out of existence because they are "ruining" the thread.

[PA0PBZ]

I don't see how simply moving it helps? 

Changing peoples expectations by putting it under general chat and changing the title a little might prevent the flood of complaints?
I'm not suggesting it would change the posting behavior, I'd like to keep it as a community which it has grown into.

[pcprogrammer]

I submit that there were far more people "bothered" by it.  They just hadn't reached the point of putting pen to paper.  Dismissing the silent majority is not consistent with your assertion of "in fact" - since that is a fact you do not even consider.

Why am I so annoyed?  Because I'm one of those who was bothered by it all.

Do us all a favour - if you want to do your "social studies" then fine, but keep it to yourself.  You are never going to get the sort of information needed to come to any clear conclusions - you'll just have ongoing supposition and guesses which isn't helping anyone ... except, perhaps, yourself.

Unfortunately I'm clearly not so good in expressing myself. What I meant to say was that the group bothered by the moderation that followed on the reports of disgruntled members, is the minority.

Which I stated in a later post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4385005/#msg4385005

And sorry if I offended you with my interest.

[pcprogrammer]

Changing peoples expectations by putting it under general chat and changing the title a little might prevent the flood of complaints?
I'm not suggesting it would change the posting behavior, I'd like to keep it as a community which it has grown into.

You would still have the problem that not everybody in the same group has the same idea on what sits well with others, and the same would happen again.

Splitting up the threads would probably not help either because some might be to lazy to switch to the other thread to post their very important off topic information, or fear that it might not be seen by the target audience because it does not frequent the other thread.

As good set of rules and a group that is able to correct itself, like it was, works until someone makes a mess of it again. The only solution is then to remove the offender, but that information has to come from the group itself.

Will check out the voting thread now and try to refrain from further input.

[Brumby]

I was more frustrated with what I saw as achieving nothing.  If I have misinterpreted, then I too apologise.

Sometimes one forgets that expressing opinions via text can be somewhat lacking.  It can be like trying to appreciate opera via teletype.

[Brumby]

Changing peoples expectations by putting it under general chat and changing the title a little might prevent the flood of complaints?
I'm not suggesting it would change the posting behavior, I'd like to keep it as a community which it has grown into.

You would still have the problem that not everybody in the same group has the same idea on what sits well with others, and the same would happen again.

Agreed.  As I said earlier, the TEA thread is defined by its content, not its location.

[TERRA Operative]

I think the group who was complaining about the moderation have mostly moved out now? So maybe things will settle down to a point that moderation is once again rarely needed, maybe?

[bsfeechannel]

Honestly I have no frigg'n idea what people actually want?

The TEA is a therapy thread. There are a bunch of them on the forum: "Post a picture of a cat", "What did you buy today", "Your pet peeve" and many others.

You know, life is tough: wife, kids, taxes, bills, bosses, not to talk about the idiots who run the world.

However, people try not to call the attention of the mods by avoiding polemic subjects (luckily cats are not explosive and can't be used as weapons).

The TEA thread, however, has become like a pub where a bunch of pals gather to drink beer and talk. But, alas, talking about firearms and explosives, although OK for a pub, is not for an electronics forum.

Enter the mods, see all that offtopickery and do what they're "hired" to do. People then get miffed, not because of the mod per se, but because they see, with that, the destruction of the therapeutic value of the thread. However, letting the thread run like a pub destroys the value of the entire forum.

So it's obvious that a compromise solution must be achieved.

[Specmaster]

In the past, as far as I can remember, and I have been here for a long time, 6 years or so, we did ask the moderators to take action over the huge numbers of infiltrators who posting spam, porn and also scammers and they did an excellent job and we have not had any repeats since, this was a few years ago now.

This group does go OT from time to time and as in any situation, you get occasional disagreements between 1 or 2 members and often these are members, who in all honesty Dave, you would call reasonable and sensible normally. When such events happen, or when there is politics or gun talk etc, if these go on for to long or get to be too specific, we have always found that other members give gentle nudges and those involved heed their peers and normality returns.

This has in my view become a problem where the moderators have had to step in and take some form of action has really been far more noticeable since the thread grew in size and somebody decided to make it a sticky. Also, since Dave has mentioned the thread a few times in his video blog, we are finding many new posters and I suspect this a direct result of those two actions. I also suspect that many of those being directed here are expecting this thread to be all encompassing authority on all matters relating to Test Equipment and as such are being disillusioned by the OT chat that has always been part if it, and I dare say that are NOT always finding the answers that are seeking.

The thread was set up by bitseeker in the first instance as a place for other who shared a passion for collecting old bits of test equipment and then trying to repair / restore them and finding themselves addicted to it, maybe problems in their real lives as a result of that addiction and the clue to that is contained within the threads title Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread. Could it be that hardly anybody reads beyond the first 2 words and things thats for me? To my mind it is more like "Alcoholics Anonymous" and how many people would want to be a member of that support system, not many I wager, but billions of people love alcohol.

Yes there is a lot of electronics talk in the thread and mostly anything of note has been catalogued by the OP and is listed on page 1 of the thread, and many of these have also dedicated threads setup under other parts of the forum, such as Repairs, Projects etc to steer people looking for  specific repair information to their target. Many people with in this thread are also active within the other threads, such as the Beginners for instance, and actively offer help and support to the young players.

So perhaps the best way to resolve the current turmoil would be to remove the sticky thread and let it return to becoming just another thread under the generic Test Equipment banner were it would become one of the other 482 threads in that section?

[m k]

Honestly I have no frigg'n idea what people actually want?

Status quo.
(not the band)

But it can be different tomorrow, so reactions must be dynamic and from inside.

[m k]

Maybe off topic but now you mention it: what really takes up a huge amount of space is quoting a meter long post just to add one sentence! IMO that's much worse than posting a video, and a video is much easier to skip than a totally unnecessary multi-screen long quote. Yeah, as you can see it's been annoying me for a long time.

That's an annoyance to me as well - which is why I will only quote what is essential to my point.  Other members have done likewise, including changing the size of images to reduce the impact - a practice I have also adopted.
It's not a universal practice yet ... let's call it a work in progress.

A gentle reminder to a full-quoter is sometimes good. They may have never thought about it before. And as always, leding by example is the best way on the forum.

By quoting literally all I have followed your instructions.
The Idea, as I remember it, was that quoting all will generate only a link to the original post.

[xrunner]

A gentle reminder to a full-quoter is sometimes good. They may have never thought about it before. And as always, leding by example is the best way on the forum.

When I had an SMF forum I got so tired of the nested quotes I used the feature below. Fixed that mess real good ...

Post Settings

This page of the administration center contains some settings regarding the posting of messages on your forum.
Enable/Disable Settings

    Remove nested quotes when posting - This will only show the quote of the post in question, not any quoted posts from that post

[sokoloff]

I think judicious use of nested quotes is way better than banning them outright.

Otherwise, you get quotes that are just “I think you’re off by a factor of 10” or “that’s not how it works” that lack explicit sharing of context, making for more time wasting of readers than you were trying to avoid.

[Brumby]

Been having a peek at the poll thread over the last couple of hours and noticed that it has been fairly consistent.

What I find MORE helpful is the fact that we have an essentially symmetric distribution that shows two very significant things.....
1. There is a strong leaning towards the centre of these with more or less equal opinion either side.
2. That there are a statistically significant number who feel moderation is too strict and a similar number who feel it is too lenient.

Observation 1 says to me that the Mod team have - all things considered - been pretty much on the money.

Observation 2 says something far more important for the community to take notice - and that is that NO MATTER WHAT action the Moderators take, there will ALWAYS be some who feel it's too much and others will feel it's too little.

SO - next time people want to throw a tantrum at Mod action, just take a step back and realise that where you may feel one way, there will be others who feel the exact opposite.  The Mods have to operate at the balance point, so please cut them some slack if they don't meet YOUR personal expectations!

In the light of this it is very clear that the Mods have been acting in the very best interests of the EEVblog IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE COLLECTIVE PREFERENCE OF ITS MEMBERS.  Some of you may want to argue the point, but the poll makes this extremely clear.

[pcprogrammer]

Yes the polls show the moderators are doing a proper job.

But with only 41 voters on 58265 members is a bit thin. Maybe it will go up and show how other members feel about it all.

The number of members I got from the statistics on the main page.

2533303 Posts in 165579 Topics by 58265 Members. Latest Member: Skayler

Edit: Only issue I see with the poll is that due to it not being allowed to post comments in it, it might disappear a bit to soon onto the next page.

[dorkshoei]

I didn't realize there was any moderation anywhere on this forum :-).  And no I'm not joking.  There are many times when I've wished a mod would take some action. (I used to be a mod on a much larger forum)

[joeqsmith]

I followed the thread when it first started but lost interest.  It wasn't until all this recent drama started up that I took the time to read some of what was being posted.  Sadly, much of the data had been scrubbed so I have no context to base a vote on. 

I do find the site very tolerant when it comes to the electronics related rule.  After all, they have even created a dedicated cooking section.   

I've never seen anything posted that was so bad that I felt the need to contact a mod.   Overall, I have been pleased with how the site has been ran,  even when they attempt to wheel me in.      For a site this size, I say good job to everyone involved.   

[factory]

I post a link to the odd video now and again but not to any excess and only in the context of the discussion. The posting of ridiculously huge inline images by people annoys the hell out of me and regularly causes my tv to freeze which then requires a restart.   

I would just like to say that gnif was an excellent moderator, I may not post much on the forum but do read and monitor it daily. I also regularly report many instances of spam posts which gnif has always promptly and diligently addressed.   

Even using the IMG code width= or height= doesn't help with the often unnecessary 4k sized images  , that some post, they still load in full (can be zoomed in) when using the mobile version of the forum.
And they often take so long to load at peak times, that I frequently give up trying to view them, as a result I can't comment if it was something I could help with.
I keep my pictures to 1920 wide or below for uploads and IMG code width= at 700 wide or below for inline, no idea if this is too high. 

David

[tautech]

Often it's some big embedded youtube video that takes up a ton of visual space for absolutely no reason.

So what is that old saying.....a picture says a thousand words yet if we are to expressly follow your lead and not clutter the forum with a tonne of wasted visual space we'd not be linking any of your videos into posts. 


And a poll, seriously and after the fact. 
And you think poll results are to be a true and accurate representation of members views ?
A week ago it sure would have been a fine idea but now the horse has bolted after excessive use of the whip.