Discussing the usage of the TEA thread

[pcprogrammer]

And there is still humor left. The clocks I found to be funny

[Squarewave]

And there is still humor left. The clocks I found to be funny

That's it, the odd clock pun, a few here and there, not pages of talking about how my grandfather used to wind his clock up on a table and how I love to french polish my table.

We don't have time for that.

[gnif]

I have to agree, there are posts about electronic related devices/things, a bit of banter about those things and some additions/items of interest in relation to those things, and then it moved onto another topic. Amazing, everything flows and is readable in a way that doesn't make me think "why is this on an electronics forum?!"

[factory]

Since all this went down I have been informed that there is a TEA domain that was registered when we had the outage from the fire at the datacenter, and that there is one, perhaps two "backup" copies of atleast the TEA thread someone has been keeping a copy of for this. That incident was 8 Apr 2021, more than a year ago! Well before I felt the need to step in here and try to bring things back on track. I also have seen talk in your own new TEA community forum of trailing out other platforms/software in order to move.

Also note, with Dave's approval I would have been more then happy to provide a database export and image archive of that thread to assist your community to migrate if you had just asked. While I will still do it if Dave requests it of me, I have zero motivation to do so unless instructed to (I am also not sure about the legal ramifications of this as there may be privacy issues with posts made by now inactive members that don't wish to see their content on another forum/site).

These backups were discussed in the thread, by those making them, I believe the datacentre fire and problems with an update (something to do with the long standing inline picture posting problem) are the main reasons.

David

[gnif]

Since all this went down I have been informed that there is a TEA domain that was registered when we had the outage from the fire at the datacenter, and that there is one, perhaps two "backup" copies of atleast the TEA thread someone has been keeping a copy of for this. That incident was 8 Apr 2021, more than a year ago! Well before I felt the need to step in here and try to bring things back on track. I also have seen talk in your own new TEA community forum of trailing out other platforms/software in order to move.

Also note, with Dave's approval I would have been more then happy to provide a database export and image archive of that thread to assist your community to migrate if you had just asked. While I will still do it if Dave requests it of me, I have zero motivation to do so unless instructed to (I am also not sure about the legal ramifications of this as there may be privacy issues with posts made by now inactive members that don't wish to see their content on another forum/site).

These backups were discussed in the thread, by those making them, I believe the datacentre fire and problems with an update (something to do with the long standing inline picture posting problem) are the main reasons.

David

Yup, which I fully understand. However the domain registration, the fact that the groups.io tea forum was created two days prior to things blowing up, and mentions in the new forums that they had already been exploring options to me do not add up. While I don't think the OP of the TEA thread (bitseeker) was doing anything wrong/odd, it does feel like those that knew of these things were manipulating things/pouring fuel on the fire, to force/justify a move so they could create their own club. Again though, this is just my 2c and I could be completely wrong here...

[Black Phoenix]

While I don't think the OP of the TEA thread (bitseeker) was doing anything wrong/odd, it does feel like those that knew of these things were manipulating things/pouring fuel on the fire, to force/justify a move so they could create their own club. Again though, this is just my 2c and I could be completely wrong here...

Do it really matter for the situation? As Dave always told that if people don't feel OK here they are free to go. No one forces anyone to stay in a place they dislike.

If someone wants to have their new "garden" because they thing the old one is not being taken care properly they are free of doing it. No need for conspiracy or undercover reasons.

Gnif, you've done nothing wrong in this situation to be sincere. Probably a little out of touch but you were following what you thought was right. You apologise and even step down form your position as a mod.

You were an adult in taking your decisions and pointing your mistakes. Case close, let's keep doing what we kept doing before, keeping this community growing and this "treasure trove" of knowledge online and in good health.

[Brumby]

Also note, with Dave's approval I would have been more then happy to provide a database export and image archive of that thread ... ... (I am also not sure about the legal ramifications of this as there may be privacy issues with posts made by now inactive members that don't wish to see their content on another forum/site).

While I concede that all the content I have contributed is in the public domain, I am comfortable that I have control of it while it is still within the EEVblog and if anything appears elsewhere, it has been done without my approval.

Having a formal copy handed over to another group with which I have no business does not sit well at all.  As such, I would prefer such an action not happen.

[Neper]

I have to agree, there are posts about electronic related devices/things, a bit of banter about those things and some additions/items of interest in relation to those things, and then it moved onto another topic.

Utterly charming. Just missing a few geraniums and a set of garden gnomes.

SCNR

[gnif]

While I don't think the OP of the TEA thread (bitseeker) was doing anything wrong/odd, it does feel like those that knew of these things were manipulating things/pouring fuel on the fire, to force/justify a move so they could create their own club. Again though, this is just my 2c and I could be completely wrong here...

Do it really matter for the situation? As Dave always told that if people don't feel OK here they are free to go. No one forces anyone to stay in a place they dislike.

If someone wants to have their new "garden" because they thing the old one is not being taken care properly they are free of doing it. No need for conspiracy or undercover reasons.

Gnif, you've done nothing wrong in this situation to be sincere. Probably a little out of touch but you were following what you thought was right. You apologise and even step down form your position as a mod.

You were an adult in taking your decisions and pointing your mistakes. Case close, let's keep doing what we kept doing before, keeping this community growing and this "treasure trove" of knowledge online and in good health.

Well said and point taken, thanks

[tggzzz]

Since all this went down I have been informed that there is a TEA domain that was registered when we had the outage from the fire at the datacenter, and that there is one, perhaps two "backup" copies of atleast the TEA thread someone has been keeping a copy of for this. That incident was 8 Apr 2021, more than a year ago! Well before I felt the need to step in here and try to bring things back on track. I also have seen talk in your own new TEA community forum of trailing out other platforms/software in order to move.

Also note, with Dave's approval I would have been more then happy to provide a database export and image archive of that thread to assist your community to migrate if you had just asked. While I will still do it if Dave requests it of me, I have zero motivation to do so unless instructed to (I am also not sure about the legal ramifications of this as there may be privacy issues with posts made by now inactive members that don't wish to see their content on another forum/site).

These backups were discussed in the thread, by those making them, I believe the datacentre fire and problems with an update (something to do with the long standing inline picture posting problem) are the main reasons.

David

Yup, which I fully understand. However the domain registration, the fact that the groups.io tea forum was created two days prior to things blowing up, and mentions in the new forums that they had already been exploring options to me do not add up. While I don't think the OP of the TEA thread (bitseeker) was doing anything wrong/odd, it does feel like those that knew of these things were manipulating things/pouring fuel on the fire, to force/justify a move so they could create their own club. Again though, this is just my 2c and I could be completely wrong here...

My understanding is that the original denizens, who created and made the therapy group what it was, were becoming unhappy with attempts to change the flavour of the group. I believe bitseeker was surprised to have had to start using the groups.io group so abruptly and so soon. Hence it looks like setting up the groups.io group was classic "disaster planning", with the "disaster" happening unexpectedly.

There is certainly feeling that some people remaining on this forum "gamed" the reporting and moderation mechanism to change the thread away from therapy. I'm agnostic, but it can't be dismissed out of hand.

Personally I have a dislike for situations in which newcomers waltz into a situation and decide they don't like the situation and will therefore agitate to change it to suit themselves. Doubly so if it isn't done in public but is done by behind the scenes complaints to mummy/daddy/deity/HumanResources/whatever. I've seen that kind of thing happen in many spheres, including religious/cultural organisations, workplaces, political organisations, and social clubs. The resulting schisms are always unpleasant and have unpleasant consequences.

However, nothing is black and white. Before jumping in with kneejerk responses, please read my earlier posts which outline more of the nuances in my position, e.g.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4377424/#msg4377424
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4378024/#msg4378024
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4379395/#msg4379395

[Squarewave]

There is certainly feeling that some people remaining on this forum "gamed" the reporting and moderation mechanism to change the thread away from therapy. I'm agnostic, but it can't be dismissed out of hand.

Personally I have a dislike for situations in which newcomers waltz into a situation and decide they don't like the situation and will therefore agitate to change it to suit themselves. Doubly so if it isn't done in public but is done by behind the scenes complaints to mummy/daddy/deity/HumanResources/whatever. I've seen that kind of thing happen in many spheres, including religious/cultural organisations, workplaces, political organisations, and social clubs. The resulting schisms are always unpleasant and have unpleasant consequences.

Yes I've seen in IO, where a few people suggested it was all down to me. If it were me, I hardly think the mods here are going to take 'drastic' action just because one person didn't like it. Many people have said here that it got 'too off topic', not just me. My suggestion that it went far isn't as someone put it "a recent post from him to the effect that he did complain"- 'to the effect' isn't the same thing. Even one of those who have left here for IO has said himself that "it was difficult finding references to things I did only a week or two previously", so there you go, does that mean he complained? Or just as I've said and a few others, things were getting buried in too much OT, pages of it.

One even described be as having a "trollish, combative attitude" - but if you've been told by the mods to stop wandering off topic and you continue to do so, that would be the more likely to be seen as a 'trollish, combative attitude', rather than others who've just discussed TE. Yes, as one quite rightly pointed out, I've not been as active in the TEA thread as others, so?

At the end of the day, it was the trollish, combative attitude which sadly lead to what happened, the constant flouting of the rules set by the mods, the arguing with the mods and other general behaviour patterns. Singling out one person who 'appears to relish' in what has happened, isn't going to change that it was likely quite a lot of people who complained sufficiently for the mods to take action and even then, if the mods take action the way they did, it's because they saw it fit to do so, they're hardly going to be directed by one or ten or even one hundred people.

No one has, as one put it "lost their happy home", they decided to leave when they couldn't win an argument with the mods about how they want their forum to be run, very combative, quite. No one is saying that they can't leave, but have a more positive reason for doing so rather than look to proportion blame. If the off topicness, denigrating other people is what they want, then great, they've found somewhere for it, be happy!

[Ice-Tea]

No one has, as one put it "lost their happy home", they decided to leave when they couldn't win an argument with the mods about how they want their forum to be run, very combative, quite. No one is saying that they can't leave, but have a more positive reason for doing so rather than look to proportion blame. If the off topicness, denigrating other people is what they want, then great, they've found somewhere for it, be happy!

I kept mostly aside in this discussion aside from sharing my point of view in a ,I hope, constructive manner.

But to this I must object. I haven't decided to leave and I won't but, if you want to put it like that, my "happy home" is gone or has at least changed forever. I couldn't care less about proportioning blame but the notion that nothing really changes except for some perceived hotheads the forum is better off without is wrong. Period. Point final.

[Squarewave]

I kept mostly aside in this discussion aside from sharing my point of view in a ,I hope, constructive manner.

But to this I must object. I haven't decided to leave and I won't but, if you want to put it like that, my "happy home" is gone or has at least changed forever. I couldn't care less about proportioning blame but the notion that nothing really changes except for some perceived hotheads the forum is better off without is wrong. Period. Point final.

For your objections, let's be clear, I was quoting what others have said. And quite, not everyone has left, no one has to.

[Ice-Tea]

For your objections, let's be clear, I was quoting what others have said. And quite, not everyone has left, no one has to.

Your missing the point (deliberately or not) in spectacular fashion.

[Squarewave]

For your objections, let's be clear, I was quoting what others have said. And quite, not everyone has left, no one has to.

Your missing the point (deliberately or not) in spectacular fashion.

No, I'm not. I think we probably have our own opinion, which is fine.

But if I am missing your point, try another way and see if we come across clearer to each other?

[m k]

I have to agree, there are posts about electronic related devices/things, a bit of banter about those things and some additions/items of interest in relation to those things, and then it moved onto another topic. Amazing, everything flows and is readable in a way that doesn't make me think "why is this on an electronics forum?!"

(this is not personal, this is academic)

Since the table part was so big issue why didn't you move it to general section?

Based on your sudden, from here, action I'd say that your TEA didn't have the A part.
I've not been around so long that I could say if that is a new thing but that it seems to be from here.

There's also an irrational part in I can't follow my liking.
What is the argument when the activity can't be rejected.

[Ice-Tea]

Your assertion is that no one has lost their happy home (except for those who chose to leave). This is what you said, not others. Perhaps the phrase originated elsewhere, I honnestly don't care as it doesn't change much. I'm telling you that's wrong. At least my personal experience that has deteriorated and that makes the "no one" part wrong.

[Squarewave]

I didn't assert, that was my opinion. You're allowed your opinion too of course.

[tggzzz]

There is certainly feeling that some people remaining on this forum "gamed" the reporting and moderation mechanism to change the thread away from therapy. I'm agnostic, but it can't be dismissed out of hand.

Personally I have a dislike for situations in which newcomers waltz into a situation and decide they don't like the situation and will therefore agitate to change it to suit themselves. Doubly so if it isn't done in public but is done by behind the scenes complaints to mummy/daddy/deity/HumanResources/whatever. I've seen that kind of thing happen in many spheres, including religious/cultural organisations, workplaces, political organisations, and social clubs. The resulting schisms are always unpleasant and have unpleasant consequences.

Yes I've seen in IO, where a few people suggested it was all down to me. If it were me, I hardly think the mods here are going to take 'drastic' action just because one person didn't like it. Many people have said here that it got 'too off topic', not just me. My suggestion that it went far isn't as someone put it "a recent post from him to the effect that he did complain"- 'to the effect' isn't the same thing. Even one of those who have left here for IO has said himself that "it was difficult finding references to things I did only a week or two previously", so there you go, does that mean he complained? Or just as I've said and a few others, things were getting buried in too much OT, pages of it.

One even described be as having a "trollish, combative attitude" - but if you've been told by the mods to stop wandering off topic and you continue to do so, that would be the more likely to be seen as a 'trollish, combative attitude', rather than others who've just discussed TE. Yes, as one quite rightly pointed out, I've not been as active in the TEA thread as others, so?

At the end of the day, it was the trollish, combative attitude which sadly lead to what happened, the constant flouting of the rules set by the mods, the arguing with the mods and other general behaviour patterns. Singling out one person who 'appears to relish' in what has happened, isn't going to change that it was likely quite a lot of people who complained sufficiently for the mods to take action and even then, if the mods take action the way they did, it's because they saw it fit to do so, they're hardly going to be directed by one or ten or even one hundred people.

It feel like you didn't bother to (re)read my earlier posts, as requested. My apologies if you did.

Apart from that, your response is a little odd in that it doesn't address the key point I was making in the bit you quoted.

I have zero interest in exactly who might or might not have waltzed in as I described.

No one has, as one put it "lost their happy home", they decided to leave when they couldn't win an argument with the mods about how they want their forum to be run, very combative, quite. No one is saying that they can't leave, but have a more positive reason for doing so rather than look to proportion blame. If the off topicness, denigrating other people is what they want, then great, they've found somewhere for it, be happy!

I can't improve on this response:

But to this I must object. I haven't decided to leave and I won't but, if you want to put it like that, my "happy home" is gone or has at least changed forever. I couldn't care less about proportioning blame but the notion that nothing really changes except for some perceived hotheads the forum is better off without is wrong. Period. Point final.

[tggzzz]

For your objections, let's be clear, I was quoting what others have said. And quite, not everyone has left, no one has to.

Your missing the point (deliberately or not) in spectacular fashion.

Having read squarewave's subsequent responses (cf answers), that does seem to be the case.

[tggzzz]

I didn't assert, that was my opinion. You're allowed your opinion too of course.

You did make an assertion; have a look at dictionary definitions of the word, e.g. "transitive verb To state or express positively; affirm."

I have no doubt your assertion is also your opinion.

[Squarewave]

We're kind of going off into, 'my opinion is that your opinion was an assertion'.

I'm not asserting anything. At the end of the day, it boils down to a bunch of guys, discussing an internet forum, on an internet forum.

I suspect I'm not taking this as seriously as some are, hence my opinion, being taken as an assertion, by others who feel that their opinion is more worthy. If it is more worthy, have it, I'm going to be all that fussed.

[tggzzz]

We're kind of going off into, 'my opinion is that your opinion was an assertion'.

I'm not asserting anything. At the end of the day, it boils down to a bunch of guys, discussing an internet forum, on an internet forum.

I suspect I'm not taking this as seriously as some are, hence my opinion, being taken as an assertion, by others who feel that their opinion is more worthy. If it is more worthy, have it, I'm going to be all that fussed.

You were asserting your opinion. If you claim you are not asserting something, please state the definition of the words you are using, as per Humpty Dumpty.

From a well known book that many children (used to) read: Through the Looking Glass...
"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

[Squarewave]

I think it's time for a beer.

[GreyWoolfe]

Since all this went down I have been informed that there is a TEA domain that was registered when we had the outage from the fire at the datacenter, and that there is one, perhaps two "backup" copies of atleast the TEA thread someone has been keeping a copy of for this. That incident was 8 Apr 2021, more than a year ago! Well before I felt the need to step in here and try to bring things back on track. I also have seen talk in your own new TEA community forum of trailing out other platforms/software in order to move.

Also note, with Dave's approval I would have been more then happy to provide a database export and image archive of that thread to assist your community to migrate if you had just asked. While I will still do it if Dave requests it of me, I have zero motivation to do so unless instructed to (I am also not sure about the legal ramifications of this as there may be privacy issues with posts made by now inactive members that don't wish to see their content on another forum/site).

These backups were discussed in the thread, by those making them, I believe the datacentre fire and problems with an update (something to do with the long standing inline picture posting problem) are the main reasons.

David

Yup, which I fully understand. However the domain registration, the fact that the groups.io tea forum was created two days prior to things blowing up, and mentions in the new forums that they had already been exploring options to me do not add up. While I don't think the OP of the TEA thread (bitseeker) was doing anything wrong/odd, it does feel like those that knew of these things were manipulating things/pouring fuel on the fire, to force/justify a move so they could create their own club. Again though, this is just my 2c and I could be completely wrong here...

My understanding is that the original denizens, who created and made the therapy group what it was, were becoming unhappy with attempts to change the flavour of the group. I believe bitseeker was surprised to have had to start using the groups.io group so abruptly and so soon. Hence it looks like setting up the groups.io group was classic "disaster planning", with the "disaster" happening unexpectedly.

There is certainly feeling that some people remaining on this forum "gamed" the reporting and moderation mechanism to change the thread away from therapy. I'm agnostic, but it can't be dismissed out of hand.

Personally I have a dislike for situations in which newcomers waltz into a situation and decide they don't like the situation and will therefore agitate to change it to suit themselves. Doubly so if it isn't done in public but is done by behind the scenes complaints to mummy/daddy/deity/HumanResources/whatever. I've seen that kind of thing happen in many spheres, including religious/cultural organisations, workplaces, political organisations, and social clubs. The resulting schisms are always unpleasant and have unpleasant consequences.

However, nothing is black and white. Before jumping in with kneejerk responses, please read my earlier posts which outline more of the nuances in my position, e.g.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4377424/#msg4377424
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4378024/#msg4378024
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4379395/#msg4379395

Not having the energy to go back and look through a metric ton of posts, I think gnif said that there were 15 complaints.  What is unknown is if they are newbies, old mustache petes or SJWs.  The mere fact that 15 people could completely derail a thread the size of TEA, seems a bit disturbing.  Gnif, if I am wrong on the counts, please correct me.  Watching the thread the past couple of days, after being around for years with all that went on in the thread, it suddenly seems a bit sterile.  I still plan to be around lurking as I have been and commenting where I was able but it still is sad to see the change.  gnif, sorry you found yourself in such an untenable situation, you felt obliged to step down as moderator.  I have seen through the years how mods are generally treated in threads when they are forced to step in and I don't envy the position.  Keep fighting the good fight, sir.