Discussing the usage of the TEA thread

[bitseeker]

I may be as I am not intimate with the thread.

This is all now a moot point though as those that are taking issue to the thread needing to be more on topic to the content of this forum have decided to setup their own group.
We will continue to keep the TEA thread open and available for use for those that wish to continue to use it but please be aware that we will expect the conditions of use stated in the first two posts here to be adhered to if you do.

While I am deeply sorry that the founder of the thread has decided to move, I hope that the end result is beneficial to both the electronics community here as a whole, and the TEA community and I wish them the best of luck.

Thanks, gnif. The size and visibility of the TEA thread has become too much for the forum. When it was smaller, its odd nature and meanderings (which got its own name: The Daily TEAngent) were less detracting.

It's been clear for a while that the community needs more than a single thread to work properly. That's why I set up a forum for it. Many of the negative symptoms were due to too many things happening in too little space.

I appreciate your reply very much, gnif, and I harbor no ill will to you, Halcyon or Dave. You have a challenging job here and the last thing I'd want is to make it harder than it already is.

So, TEA is moving where it won't be a problem for both the members who had a hard time with the monster thread (I have difficulty with it, too) and the EEVblog community at large.

[gnif]

Thank you kindly.

With that said, I see no reason to keep this thread open and as such I hereby lock it and take off my moderator cap.
(note I will still show as an admin here as I will still need these permissions for the services I render Dave)

[gnif]

In hindsight this thread should not be locked yet, discussion needs to be open for suggestions on how weto proceed with the TEA thread here.

Unlocked

[nctnico]

IMHO a lot of sub-topics in the TEA thread could have been individual topics in the test & measurement section. At least it would be easier to search for an old topic about a specific piece of test equipment.

[pcprogrammer]

IMHO a lot of sub-topics in the TEA thread could have been individual topics in the test & measurement section. At least it would be easier to search for an old topic about a specific piece of test equipment.

That would only be proper for the on topic and test equipment related sub-topics. The point is about the off topic discussions that are felt out of order. I myself did not mind it that much, it just needs skipping if not of interest, but I can understand that when looking for something specific or trying to follow a specific topic it is making things a bit difficult.

But for sure the latest sub topic about replacing floppy drives with gotek emulators would sit very well in its own thread and get much more attention.

[Zoli]

In hindsight this thread should not be locked yet, discussion needs to be open for suggestions on how weto proceed with the TEA thread here.

Unlocked

Options which I see:
1. Held in place, try to keep on topic - it will lose a lot of the current spirit.
2. Move to general technical chat, and leave a link in the sticky place - this way I see a better chance to keep the original/current spirit.
3.-x...
Once the choices are clear, maybe put up to vote?

[gnif]

In hindsight this thread should not be locked yet, discussion needs to be open for suggestions on how weto proceed with the TEA thread here.

Unlocked

Options which I see:
1. Held in place, try to keep on topic - it will lose a lot of the current spirit.
2. Move to general technical chat, and leave a link in the sticky place - this way I see a better chance to keep the original/current spirit.
3.-x...
Once the choices are clear, maybe put up to vote?

I personally like #2

[Zoli]

IMHO a lot of sub-topics in the TEA thread could have been individual topics in the test & measurement section. At least it would be easier to search for an old topic about a specific piece of test equipment.

That would only be proper for the on topic and test equipment related sub-topics. The point is about the off topic discussions that are felt out of order. I myself did not mind it that much, it just needs skipping if not of interest, but I can understand that when looking for something specific or trying to follow a specific topic it is making things a bit difficult.

But for sure the latest sub topic about replacing floppy drives with gotek emulators would sit very well in its own thread and get much more attention.

The typical way should be to request to start a new thread on the topic from the OP; it happened  a few times.

[Vince]

I posted the following on TEA but Gnif reminded me it belongs here so... cut / paste.

I see there are already 3 pages worth of discussion !

Hopefully my message is not a repeat of what others have already said. Sorry 


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Wow, not yet another forum split ! I thought that was '90s era.... 

I once used to uise Groups.io, for it hosts TekScopes.... but IIRC when I stopped using it 5 years ago it was mostly because the user interface and features were painful, espeically working with images. found it orders of magnitude more convenient on EEVBlog which is why I started posting my TE repairs there, especially once I realized many of the old beard helping me on TekScope... were also subscribed to EEVblog and were helping me there as well !

I don't fancy going back to Groups. io because of that... also, it will make it impossible for newcomers, fresh blood, to find us, or even know of our existence, and soon we will be going circles.

Also, the present thread has a tremendous value to me at least, because it archives allllll the work I did to restore my old junk. Tons of pics, tons of loud thinking and trouble-shooting...

One would need to be able to import all the past TEA messages and pics, into Groups.io.
 Bitseeker did such a fantastic job or building a TEA "contents table" of POI on the first page, it's really extremely valuable. SO we would need to modify alll the links it contains, to point to groups.io messags links instead..... lot of work (I guess the IT wizards here could automate that  maybe ?)

If it's really a matter of life or death, yes I would move to groups.io (I just subscribed there BTW).

HOWEVER, it would be SO MUCH MORE PRACTICAL if we stayed here instead !

SOLUTION : easy.... to me ?  I do'nt know.... to me, seems that the problem is that our content has too much OT stuff. So, why not simply do click-click-click, and move the TEA thread into a " random chat /lounge " section of EEVBlog, hence we could post OT stuff to our hearts contents and never have anybody complain about it ?

Now I don't know if there is a "random chat" section on EEVBlog, but most forums do... if not, maybe it would be an opportunity to create one ? 

Then all the people who silently complain/report about OT stuff here, are free to start a new TEA thread of their own, in the proper section of the foruml (here then...), and that's it.... then we can watch their thread and as soon as we see anything OT we wuld report it !!! 

No just kidding....

I say just move this thread to a random chat section, or simply leave the thread here and edit it's titel / description to make it obvious that it's kinda a " TEA oriented chat room ", and create a "proper" TEA thread alongside it, labeled " TEA SERIOUS ", or something...

I am trying to be reasonable and find a middle ground here, please consider my idea ! 

I would rather not have to give up on this thread and move to another IT infrastructure, to be honest. 


EDIT : Also, I am not sure Groups.io has enough formatting options to let AVG and Dragon use colourful text.....
And what about emoticons ?

[Cerebus]

IMHO a lot of sub-topics in the TEA thread could have been individual topics in the test & measurement section. At least it would be easier to search for an old topic about a specific piece of test equipment.

The whole point of the TEA thread is that the TEA thread is not about specific items of test equipment, but about a bunch of people with a habit of collecting too much of it. To think it was ever about the test equipment itself is to miss the point. If one wants to keep the thread strictly on topic then all posts should be related to test equipment addition and not test equipment itself.

[nctnico]

IMHO a lot of sub-topics in the TEA thread could have been individual topics in the test & measurement section. At least it would be easier to search for an old topic about a specific piece of test equipment.

The whole point of the TEA thread is that the TEA thread is not about specific items of test equipment, but about a bunch of people with a habit of collecting too much of it. To think it was ever about the test equipment itself is to miss the point. If one wants to keep the thread strictly on topic then all posts should be related to test equipment addition and not test equipment itself.

I get that but my point is that if/when the discussion drifts towards a specific instrument, then the forum as a whole is better served with a forum topic rather than useful information becoming hidden is an enormous topic.

[Vince]

Oh boy I am getting real desperate now... as I realize this TEA thread might ACTUALLY be shut down for real ?! 

To me the entire point, value of this thread was that it was not specific to anything, but rather a live chat room where I could ask just a quick technical question, or share a quick little TE something, that otherwise would NOT warrant, by any stretch of the imagination, a dedicated thread.

It's just a TE oriented random chat room, which grew a community that I got learn appreciate and like, and that would all go down the drain if this thread was shut down. There is no substitute for what's happening here other than.. doing the same thing.

I say just rename and/or move the thread to wherever is seen fit, so that people EXPECT to find OT stuff... hence won't complain about it.

Please pretty please, let me have my TEA friends.... I got to love them all over the 18 months that I have been here, I would be heart broken if all of a sudden I could not gather with my TEA electronic friends from all over the world !!!   

Please let me keep my TEA buddies here, please !

[gnif]

I see no reason why the TEA thread here would be shutdown and I am not sure why you think so, see

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4376359/#msg4376359

[Vince]

PHEW !! 

Looks like I got confused, my bad... you were talking about closing THIS thread, not TEA 

Sorry...

[AVGresponding]

In hindsight this thread should not be locked yet, discussion needs to be open for suggestions on how weto proceed with the TEA thread here.

Unlocked

Good, because I damn well want my say too.

I'm bloody well pissed off with the whole situation, it's ludicrous that grown adults can't debate and discuss and argue without reverting to threats (Mods/Admin) or petty name calling (various TEA participants who should definitely know better).

I refuse to accept that a zero tolerance policy towards off-topic posts is in any way sensible, sustainable, or reasonable. However on the other side, despite protestations to the contrary, the ratio of off-topic to on-topic posts has increased considerably in recent months, and not to the benefit of the thread imo.
Off-topic posts are like seasoning on food; a little makes it special, too much makes it unpalatable.

It should not even need to be stated that certain topics, that are inherently divisive and generate polarised rhetoric, will not/should not be allowed. I'll mention guns as a good example; I do not want to see gun talk in the thread at all. This is despite the fact that I have an interest in firearms, and weapons in general. But this is not the place. The other examples should be very obvious, and if I am required to state them, there would be truly no hope for us going forward.

For those that suggest skipping posts that are off-topic/of no interest: I already do that. I have to do it more and more often, nowadays. Valve gear on the whole does not interest me at all, with a few exceptions (who can fail to be seduced by number tubes?), and I duly skip it for the most part, no big deal. But when you get home from work 10 hours since last checking the thread and there's five new pages of content four of which are off-topic, it's getting beyond a joke.

I'm completely behind the suggestion to have a new thread with a more off-topic bias. I certainly am not interested in joining another forum.

[Squarewave]

I don't think the TEA thread would work here (General Area). It's test equipment talk (keep it in the TE area), perhaps we can have a general chat thread here for people who want to talk about their varicose veins and their retirement homes?

[Squarewave]

In hindsight this thread should not be locked yet, discussion needs to be open for suggestions on how weto proceed with the TEA thread here.

Unlocked

Good, because I damn well want my say too.

I'm bloody well pissed off with the whole situation, it's ludicrous that grown adults can't debate and discuss and argue without reverting to threats (Mods/Admin) or petty name calling (various TEA participants who should definitely know better).

I refuse to accept that a zero tolerance policy towards off-topic posts is in any way sensible, sustainable, or reasonable. However on the other side, despite protestations to the contrary, the ratio of off-topic to on-topic posts has increased considerably in recent months, and not to the benefit of the thread imo.
Off-topic posts are like seasoning on food; a little makes it special, too much makes it unpalatable.

Zero tolerance isn't the issue here, at least I don't think. From what I read, it's the 10 pages or more, of absolute random stuff which has nothing to do with TE, then the arguing and bickering when a moderator steps in, the warnings given, the the same again, from what appears to be the same people, then moderators step in again and the same arguing again.

At least that's how I see it, people have been tolerant, but it's got out of hand.

[Saskia]

well, even I who am into some strange hobbies, have called to restrain ourselves from posting wrt specific topics (even tho the 50 grams solution was kind of my hallmark (and for those who may not know, this 50 grams solution has very much to do with electronics, sigint, comint, etc).

But:
deleting a "get well soon" for someone who contracted a nasty bug is overpolicing it imO.
And furthermore, getting off work after like 10 - 11h I do not have the intention of self policing every word, statement, etc that I might possibly make out of fear that someone might consider it off topic. That is way too tiring and defeats the purpose of having a place to chat with friends, look into the latest aquisitions, exchange refurbishing information, etc.
Which is centered not only about electronics but the life surrounding it as well. It is not TE, but TE A.
The TEA thread had grown into a community that now has been more or less forcefully displaced.
That being the case, plus the stuff going on in the industry (e.g. Keysight and their stance towards private TE owners) leads to the question if engagement is still worth it or if it is just better to sell off the stuff and go fishing.

The more I think about it, the more going fishing is becoming attractive.
Anybody interested in the rest of my Keysight gear drop me a note.

[gnif]

deleting a "get well soon" for someone who contracted a nasty bug is overpolicing it imO.

I personally am not happy with how things went down, or reading back through it how I handled some things here as it could have been done with more tact. I apologise for that and recognise that I need to take a step back which is why I have decided I will not be involved in the moderation aspects of this forum anymore.

[Neper]

First he blows everything up, then he resigns and now he wants to apologise. All this in less than 24 hours. What a remarkable achievement.

How about a jolly leaving do in the garden of No. 10?

[AVGresponding]

In hindsight this thread should not be locked yet, discussion needs to be open for suggestions on how weto proceed with the TEA thread here.

Unlocked

Good, because I damn well want my say too.

I'm bloody well pissed off with the whole situation, it's ludicrous that grown adults can't debate and discuss and argue without reverting to threats (Mods/Admin) or petty name calling (various TEA participants who should definitely know better).

I refuse to accept that a zero tolerance policy towards off-topic posts is in any way sensible, sustainable, or reasonable. However on the other side, despite protestations to the contrary, the ratio of off-topic to on-topic posts has increased considerably in recent months, and not to the benefit of the thread imo.
Off-topic posts are like seasoning on food; a little makes it special, too much makes it unpalatable.

Zero tolerance isn't the issue here, at least I don't think. From what I read, it's the 10 pages or more, of absolute random stuff which has nothing to do with TE, then the arguing and bickering when a moderator steps in, the warnings given, the the same again, from what appears to be the same people, then moderators step in again and the same arguing again.

At least that's how I see it, people have been tolerant, but it's got out of hand.

My point with that statement is that the Mods/Admin appear to be intending a Zero Tolerance policy in reaction to the lack of common sense in regards to the off/on ratio that some members seem to have been evincing.

I have a suggestion for the Mods/Admin. How about, for a trial period, instead of deleting off-topic posts, they are instead highlighted, and a count is made at the end of each page, to show people in a visual way what the off/on ratio is. Maybe when people see how bad it can get, they'll self police a bit more happily.

I don't think the TEA thread would work here (General Area). It's test equipment talk (keep it in the TE area), perhaps we can have a general chat thread here for people who want to talk about their varicose veins and their retirement homes?

An additional off-topic enabled thread was my intended target of support. A TEA related title would be in order.

[pcprogrammer]

The more I think about it, the more going fishing is becoming attractive.

Looking at fish can be very soothing, fishing itself only awarding when you hook a big one. Sitting and starring at a float boring.

Personally I think it would be a good idea to separate things. Have a new thread in the general technical chat space where all topics can be discussed, with the exception of the forbidden ones like religion, politics and guns. Call it the EEVBlog Cafe. Leave the old one where it is and dedicate that to the test equipment addiction, meaning don't post anything not related to test equipment addiction. What actually is related to test equipment addiction is something to decide, but the first post there might already be clear on that. Have not read it fully.

[pcprogrammer]

First he blows everything up, then he resigns and now he wants to apologise. All this in less than 24 hours. What a remarkable achievement.

How about a jolly leaving do in the garden of No. 10?

Is this really necessary?

[gnif]

First he blows everything up, then he resigns and now he wants to apologise. All this in less than 24 hours. What a remarkable achievement.

How about a jolly leaving do in the garden of No. 10?

1) There was no intent to "blow everything up", rather to deal with an ongoing issue that is wasting a lot of moderation time.
2) I have of my own volition relegated myself to the admin/management of this forum & servers only after the angst and stress of trying to find a reasonable solution to this problem.
3) The apology was for my lack of tact in the way I handled some aspects of things here, not for the fact that something needed doing.

[Zenith]

IMHO a lot of sub-topics in the TEA thread could have been individual topics in the test & measurement section. At least it would be easier to search for an old topic about a specific piece of test equipment.

That's happened, but a lot of it is not so clear cut. It's about this thing you found at a swapmeet which you cleaned up and seems to show some signs of life, but someone warns about the capacitors which are known to fail, but you are not really interested because you only bought it for the knobs and feet and tunnel diodes anyway. Then starts a discussion about those tunnel diodes....... Or it might be a discussion about how it was bought and cleaned up and worked.

No really a request for repair help or giving much information about the specific item of equipment - except it just might grow into a brilliant restoration story, if you have nothing to do next weekend and decide you are going to fix it.