counterfeit titanium in Boeing and Airbus jets

[madires]

F.A.A. Investigating How Questionable Titanium Got Into Boeing and Airbus Jets: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/14/us/politics/boeing-airbus-titanium-faa.html
FAA investigates counterfeit titanium used in some Boeing and Airbus jets: https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/14/boeing-airbus-counterfeit-titanium-faa

TL;DR: In 2019 a Turkish material supplier bought counterfeit titanium from a supplier in China and sold it to manufacturers of aircraft parts. Those parts went to Spirit AeroSystems and ended up in Boeing and Airbus jets.

[SiliconWizard]

For some reason, this funky supply chain issue reminds me of a scandal with an industrial food manufacturer that at some point was selling products containing horse meat whereas it was advertised as beef.
 

[coppercone2]

i wanna know what they thought it was. titanium is pretty hard to miss. The thin parts feel very peculiar.

[tooki]

They thought it was titanium because it is titanium; calling it “counterfeit” is a poor choice of word. It’s that it’s titanium of unknown origin and quality because of counterfeited paperwork. In aviation, everything needs a paper trail, and now it’s been discovered that this particular paper trail was forged.

[xrunner]

Yea how can there be counterfeit titanium it's an element LOL. Must be the paperwork they mean.

[CatalinaWOW]

It could be either the material or the paperwork, or both that are counterfeit.  Titanium as used in the aircraft is not a pure element, and even "pure" materials are not interchangeable.  Take polycrystalline Silicon vs single crystal Silicon vs p doped Silicon vs n doped Silicon.  In the semiconductor world even saying single crystal isn't enough, the crystal orientation matters. 

Sometimes the lack of a paper trail is a serious issue, and sometimes it is only serious because you can't prove it isn't serious.

A not uncommon situation in the maintenance and repair side of things is for someone to buy a sheet of properly specified and documented material.  Some repair parts are made from this sheet and the paperwork follows the parts.  The remainder of the sheet is perfectly good material, but if it can't be appropriately traced back to its origin it becomes "counterfeit".  And it is surprising how often the paperwork gets lost.

The case to really worry about is when someone obtains some titanium or other material of unknown alloy, unknown manufacturing method (cast/forged/rolled etc), and unknown heat treat and passes it off as a particular material.  Often look and feel and sometimes even machining characteristics will be close enough that it isn't obvious that the material is wrong.  It takes an intensive metallurgical examination to tell the difference.  Much the same way as counterfeit ICs often work as long as the application doesn't push the corners of the specification envelope.

[mag_therm]

Yea how can there be counterfeit titanium it's an element LOL. Must be the paperwork they mean.

The alloy Ti-6Al-4V is commonly used in aero components. I would guess the media would be referring to this.
Post forming heat treat is complicated and may be proprietary.
Anneal is made more difficult by the low thermal conductivity, roughly 1/5 to 1/3 of the steel alloys, depending on temperature.

[xrunner]

Yea how can there be counterfeit titanium it's an element LOL. Must be the paperwork they mean.

The alloy Ti-6Al-4V is commonly used in aero components. I would guess the media would be referring to this.
Post forming heat treat is complicated and may be proprietary.
Anneal is made more difficult by the low thermal conductivity, roughly 1/5 to 1/3 of the steel alloys, depending on temperature.

Thanks for the explanation I was just sitting here wondering if they meant titanium the element or some sort of alloy.

[TimFox]

Pure titanium has lousy mechanical properties, and therefore alloys are used for aircraft components.
In grad school, we used commercially-pure titanium to make high voltage electrodes, which left the obvious scrap behind when the discs were cut from rectangular plates.
A different group needed some small pieces, which we shared with them.
The engineer came back and asked what the hell alloy that was, since the brackets he made failed dismally;  he forgot to ask us that detail.

[tggzzz]

Yea how can there be counterfeit titanium it's an element LOL. Must be the paperwork they mean.

Have a look at how many different types/grades of aluminim you can get.

Apart from purity, the processing and internal structure vary considerably - and that affects the material performance.

[iMo]

AI told me this. Thus to counterfeit titanium alloys would be an easy job actually..

1. Ti-6Al-4V (Grade 5)

    Composition: 6% Aluminum, 4% Vanadium, remainder Titanium.
    Properties: High strength, lightweight, excellent corrosion resistance.
    Applications: Airframes, landing gear, engine components.

2. Ti-6Al-2Sn-4Zr-2Mo (Grade 6)

    Composition: 6% Aluminum, 2% Tin, 4% Zirconium, 2% Molybdenum.
    Properties: High strength, good creep resistance at high temperatures.
    Applications: High-temperature airframe and engine components.

3. Ti-5Al-2.5Sn (Grade 6)

    Composition: 5% Aluminum, 2.5% Tin.
    Properties: Good weldability, moderate strength.
    Applications: Engine components, airframes.

4. Ti-10V-2Fe-3Al

    Composition: 10% Vanadium, 2% Iron, 3% Aluminum.
    Properties: High strength, excellent fracture toughness, good fatigue resistance.
    Applications: Landing gear, structural components.

5. Ti-6Al-2Sn-4Zr-6Mo

    Composition: 6% Aluminum, 2% Tin, 4% Zirconium, 6% Molybdenum.
    Properties: High strength, good creep resistance, suitable for high-temperature applications.
    Applications: Engine components, airframes.

6. Ti-15V-3Cr-3Sn-3Al

    Composition: 15% Vanadium, 3% Chromium, 3% Tin, 3% Aluminum.
    Properties: High strength, good fatigue resistance, easily cold-formed.
    Applications: Aircraft structural components, hydraulic tubing.

7. Ti-3Al-8V-6Cr-4Mo-4Zr (Beta C)

    Composition: 3% Aluminum, 8% Vanadium, 6% Chromium, 4% Molybdenum, 4% Zirconium.
    Properties: High strength, excellent corrosion resistance, good formability.
    Applications: Aircraft structural components, springs.

8. Ti-8Al-1Mo-1V (Grade 8 )

    Composition: 8% Aluminum, 1% Molybdenum, 1% Vanadium.
    Properties: High strength, excellent corrosion resistance.
    Applications: Airframes, high-temperature components.

[tooki]

AI told me this. Thus to counterfeit titanium alloys would be an easy job actually..

…

So you posted a list that could be completely made up. So completely pointless. I wish we could make  a rule on the forums banning the sharing of AI-generated responses.

[magic]

I could swear this was supposed to become a rule when ChatGPT became a thing, but I can't find it here.

[TimFox]

There is a detailed article in today's New York Times business section about the supply chain problem with this titanium.
To summarize briefly:  The titanium alloy originated in China and went through a Turkish company accompanied by full paperwork.
Apparently, one Chinese company forged the documentation from a second Chinese company (which has a good reputation), and the second company denies selling the material to the first company.
Since the paperwork cannot be trusted, the purchasers are now scrambling to test the material directly.

[vad]

Yea how can there be counterfeit titanium it's an element LOL. Must be the paperwork they mean.

True, titanium is an element. So is carbon. However, diamond and graphite, which are both composed of carbon, have very different physical properties and market value, and impurities in diamonds do impact their price at jewelry store.

Similar to carbon, titanium has two allotropic forms, and impurities can affect its physical properties and market value.

[CatalinaWOW]

AI told me this. Thus to counterfeit titanium alloys would be an easy job actually..

…

So you posted a list that could be completely made up. So completely pointless. I wish we could make  a rule on the forums banning the sharing of AI-generated responses.

Any list could be completely made up.  While AI is prone to garbage, it can also result in real information.  In a modest check all of the alloys mentioned in this list are real.   There are more not mentioned.

So unless the suggestion is that all information on this forum should be banned unless it is properly vetted and cited, I think this is an over reaction.  Such a strict rule on information quality would drastically reduce the content of this and many other forums.

Whatever the source, you should use caution when employing information, with the amount of caution depending on the how the information is employed.   In this thread of the forum, which is somewhat similar to a conversation in a bar, the standard for information quality can be quite low.  The question of how well vetted information needs to be is actually the base subject of this thread, where aerospace applications of materials has direct impact on human lives appear to have been inadequately vetted.  I would certainly never accept an AI assertion that a batch of material was suitable for purpose in an airplane.

Of more interest to me is the observation that this list means it is easy to counterfeit titanium.  I don't see the existence of such information as an enabler.

Edited to correct autocorrect errors.

[mendip_discovery]

Sometimes the lack of a paper trail is a serious issue, and sometimes it is only serious because you can't prove it isn't serious.

This is quite true. Often the reason behind many recalls.

A not uncommon situation in the maintenance and repair side of things is for someone to buy a sheet of properly specified and documented material.  Some repair parts are made from this sheet and the paperwork follows the parts.  The remainder of the sheet is perfectly good material, but if it can't be appropriately traced back to its origin it becomes "counterfeit".  And it is surprising how often the paperwork gets lost.

145 Section. Often the paperwork is in a bag taped to the material. When it gets small enough it goes in the bag but it doesn't take much for the paperwork to be lost and if the material has no markings on it they can't prove it is ok, so it gets binned. Same goes for parts that are old, they can be stamped to extend the years but after a limited number of years that part can no longer be fitted to an aircraft. Its amazing what you can find in the rubbish bin at times, perfectly fine for my home use.

[Zoli]

Just to chime in a little info source: the SR-71 "Blackbird" spy plane was built mostly from titanium; looking into the planes history can give some insights on the material.

[SeanB]

Ironically most of the titanium used to build it was supplied by the USSR, as one of the leaders in titanium production. The other major supplier is South Africa, mined out of dunes, where it is a black impurity in the sea sand.

[vad]

Ironically most of the titanium used to build it was supplied by the USSR, as one of the leaders in titanium production. The other major supplier is South Africa, mined out of dunes, where it is a black impurity in the sea sand.

This is part of Russian propaganda. It is common in Russia, as it was in the USSR, to create myths about Russian greatness. When the country lacks a promising future and has little to be proud of in the present, they glorify the past, often fabricating stories.

SR-71 production began in 1962 and ended in 1968. During this period, about three quarters of the US titanium sponge demand was met by domestic production, and only one quarter was imported. Imports from the USSR began in 1965, three years after production of SR-71 started, accounting for 2% of titanium sponge imports (0.5% of demand) in 1965-66, rising to 19% (5% of demand) in 1967.

Soviet titanium sponge was traded at lower prices than domestically produced titanium and imports from the UK and Japan, the main trading partners for titanium. Price undercuts is the only reason for growth of their imports.

There is no evidence that military and government contractors sourced titanium for their projects directly from USSR, there was no need for that, and chronologically events do not align.

[Bud]

There is no evidence that military and government contractors sourced titanium for their projects directly from USSR, there was no need for that, and chronologically events do not align.

There is. Just recently happened to watch a documentary on SR_71, the presenter specifially mentioned titanium for it was sourced from USSR.

[vad]

There is no evidence that military and government contractors sourced titanium for their projects directly from USSR, there was no need for that, and chronologically events do not align.

There is. Just recently happened to watch a documentary on SR_71, the presenter specifially mentioned titanium for it was sourced from USSR.

Great. I watched documentaries on UFOs, life after death, homeopathy, and the 2012 Mayan calendar apocalypse. That doesn’t mean the facts presented in those documentaries were true.

[Gyro]

Some collaboration, and generally interesting stuff on the early difficulties in working Titanium for the SR-71...

https://wisconsinmetaltech.com/titanium-and-the-sr-71/

[coppice]

SR-71 production began in 1962 and ended in 1968. During this period, about three quarters of the US titanium sponge demand was met by domestic production, and only one quarter was imported. Imports from the USSR began in 1965, three years after production of SR-71 started, accounting for 2% of titanium sponge imports (0.5% of demand) in 1965-66, rising to 19% (5% of demand) in 1967.

What you said there might well be true, but it is orthogonal to the SR71 story, which might also be true. Its a cold war story. You can't trust anything that is said. The SR71 is said to have been the first substantial application for titanium. So, the US may well have been able to source what it needed for small scale research and specialist uses domestically. The SR71 required a much bigger amount than was being produced. They never imported anything from the USSR. That's what the story says. It was all imported from third party countries, which each obtained relatively small amounts from the USSR, to avoid suspicion. What went into the SR71 did not appear in any public USA titanium usage figures, as that would have been suspicious.

[tooki]

Ironically most of the titanium used to build it was supplied by the USSR, as one of the leaders in titanium production. The other major supplier is South Africa, mined out of dunes, where it is a black impurity in the sea sand.

This is part of Russian propaganda. It is common in Russia, as it was in the USSR, to create myths about Russian greatness. When the country lacks a promising future and has little to be proud of in the present, they glorify the past, often fabricating stories.

That story has been widely reported in reputable media, citing people involved in the SR-71 program. The US set up shell companies in third world countries through which to purchase the titanium ore from the USSR without the latter finding out.

E.G. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130701-tales-from-the-blackbird-cockpit