Author Topic: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030  (Read 20125 times)

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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2023, 09:32:42 am »
I don't know which land the OP is living in but from my experience, observations and perspective.... cheques are still commonplace and cash is still king.   :-* 
 

Offline jonpaul

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #76 on: October 09, 2023, 09:36:53 am »
US Constution Art 1 sec 10:

 No State shall .... make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debt...

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Online nctnico

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #77 on: October 09, 2023, 09:37:12 am »
Also, don't rely on the car, they inevitably break down. Any important transportation should be done by horse buggies.
Crap, my horse just died   >:(
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Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #78 on: October 09, 2023, 09:45:48 am »
My mother who is her nineties was telling me about a friend of hers.  Her friend had to get some one to drive her to the bank in Box Hill, about 6.5k away from where she lived.
Didn't have a debit card. All she had was a transaction book.

Yep, and banks have been progressively phasing those out as well. First went the dot matrix printers, so bank staff had to hand-write those few who insisted on using transaction books. I dare say that will continue until either those account holders pass away, or there are no bank branches to visit. My bank for example doesn't have any branches at all.

I don't know which land the OP is living in but from my experience, observations and perspective.... cheques are still commonplace and cash is still king.   :-*

Perhaps in your small corner of the world, but looking at the national picture (of which the RBA publish regular statistics), the vast majority of the population would say otherwise. That's the land I live in. In the financial year 2021-2022, cheques represented just 0.2% of payment methods Australia-wide.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 09:49:46 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #79 on: October 09, 2023, 11:26:39 am »
I write two checks every month and one I could avoid if I wasn't so lazy. But how would I pay my credit card if there were no checks? I guess these days there's some way to transfer the money directly?
 

Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #80 on: October 09, 2023, 11:39:39 am »
I write two checks every month and one I could avoid if I wasn't so lazy. But how would I pay my credit card if there were no checks? I guess these days there's some way to transfer the money directly?

Do you guys not have "direct debit" or transfers between banks? i.e.: The minimum balance just gets deducted from your normal savings account by the credit card company automatically, or you manually transfer the funds via internet banking to a BSB and account number?
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #81 on: October 09, 2023, 12:16:31 pm »
I write two checks every month and one I could avoid if I wasn't so lazy. But how would I pay my credit card if there were no checks? I guess these days there's some way to transfer the money directly?

In most places in the world, login to your bank website/app, choose to send some money, enter the recipient account or search known payees, enter the amount (and if you want it one-off now, or at a future date, or recurring), and hit the button. Money leaves your account and arrives at the destination, be it your credit card, your power company, or your mate Jimbob, within a short tIme.

US has a very old complicated and brittle banking system which is very resistant to change for various reasons, so the old ways live on there with checks.
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Offline DennisCA

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #82 on: October 09, 2023, 12:18:43 pm »
I think cheques where basically phased out by the late 1980s in Finland? I can't remember ever having seen a cheque outside an american TV show.
 

Offline DennisCA

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #83 on: October 09, 2023, 12:21:04 pm »
I hope you guys can still pay in salt or silver coins. I mean, do the bad government want to get rid of directly exchanging donkeys for goods? Can you still use seashells though, right?

Who doesn't know how to use the three sea shells?
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #84 on: October 09, 2023, 01:29:44 pm »
I can't think of a single use-case, other than consumer stubbornness, that can't be satisfied with current technologies, in a faster, cheaper and arguably more secure manner.

Sending a present.

Not wanting to send bank details by an insecure mechanism, e.g. email.

Old people that can't use the internet, for any/all of several reasons.

Having a paper trail accessible in 15 years time.

Small local charities can prefer to receive subscriptions/donations by cheque, since it is easier for the charity's treasurer.

No doubt there are others. You might not be able to think of them because they don't apply to you, but Martin Niemöller wrote a well-remembered poem that is relevant beyond its origin.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 01:48:37 pm by tggzzz »
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #85 on: October 09, 2023, 01:31:20 pm »
I hope you guys can still pay in salt or silver coins. I mean, do the bad government want to get rid of directly exchanging donkeys for goods? Can you still use seashells though, right?

Clearly you are young. I presume you are going to avoid becoming old.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline tom66

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #86 on: October 09, 2023, 01:33:52 pm »
2% to 5% of a very large amount is still a very large amount.
With a cheque you can pay without anyone getting the 2% to 5% "hit".

Do you think processing cheques costs nothing?  The banks have to pay to manage this (large clearing houses, possibility of fraud and cancelled/bounced cheques too) and charge large businesses fees for processing these, typically a flat fee per cheque.  Also negotiated interchange fees are quite low.  Square for instance here charges merchants 1.7% of which half goes to Visa/Mastercard/AMEX. 

I welcome the end of cheques.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #87 on: October 09, 2023, 01:34:08 pm »
Perhaps in your small corner of the world, but looking at the national picture (of which the RBA publish regular statistics), the vast majority of the population would say otherwise. That's the land I live in. In the financial year 2021-2022, cheques represented just 0.2% of payment methods Australia-wide.

And hence the costs are a very small expense on the banks' balance sheet.

Banks want to grossly inconvenience some customers in order to give their owners/CEO a larger payout. Not acceptable.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2023, 01:36:33 pm »
By me cheques went obsolete, and vanished, before the Pandemic, and nobody actually misses them. Seeing as the banks estimated 10% of the cheques issued were likely to be returned RD, or were forged to defraud money, them going was good riddance. Want to pay a bill, use the phone app from your bank, and all is done immediately, no need to find a stamp or an envelope (and in any case good luck sending a letter, the SAPO is in receivership, assets less than 1% of the debt) or a post box. Plus the immediate update on your bank account to show it is sent, and then a day or two later on the verification the amount has transferred, typically next working day between any 2 banks.

Want to send money there are multiple methods, use the supermarket money counter, and send a message with the transaction number, and a PIN, and recipient goes to the same supermarket chain with ID, and enters PIN, gets money, you paid the cheap fee up front. Easier now just send to the supermarket app, and recipient goes there to collect, or you use the cardless transaction feature at the ATM, which works like the supermarket, though with a slightly higher transaction fee of course (thank you Beep Bank, for making it harder), offered in some form or the other by all the banks, even those that are almost totally online and almost branchless.

As to sending a present, you send it via a cardless transaction to the recipient, even elderly people here are well capable of going to Shoprite, and showing the cashier the code off the phone, and getting the money out the till. No bank details sent at all, just a transaction code, like commonly used for prepayment phone, prepaid electricity and prepaid water.

No internet, just a dumb phone can do phone banking, all banks support it, and it uses short codes, and then sends a SMS to both parties, and is popular in rural areas, saving sending money home by risky methods, Gogo just goes to the spaza shop, and gets paid out.

Paper trail who still gets a printed statement, all banks will email them to you, you print them out if you want, or just keep the emailed version. No way to have some dumpster diver getting the old statement, taking the bank details, and then impersonating you (easy enough) and getting a new card, to replace the "lost card", changing the address and phone number, and emptying your account.

I closed my cheque account when I realised I was writing one a year, and that the monthly fees worked out to 5 times the cheque cost over the year. That was in 1994, never missed it since then, even if it meant I had to actually walk into a branch with the cash, down to the cent, to pay a bill in the late 2000's. They went online a year later, so the last time I went into a branch to handle money was then, the rest of the time was to do account stuff, collect a card, or to get lunch at my branch, as it has a pretty good staff canteen in there, open to the public. I do more banking at the supermarket over the branch, and the one low fee bank uses a chain of supermarkets, branded red and yellow, and pretty much all over the country, as their actual tellers and front end, with a call centre and online for everything else. A few branches to handle the paper and plastic cards, and send to the supermarket, is all they have.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2023, 01:46:49 pm »
2% to 5% of a very large amount is still a very large amount.
With a cheque you can pay without anyone getting the 2% to 5% "hit".

Do you think processing cheques costs nothing?  The banks have to pay to manage this (large clearing houses, possibility of fraud and cancelled/bounced cheques too) and charge large businesses fees for processing these, typically a flat fee per cheque.  Also negotiated interchange fees are quite low.  Square for instance here charges merchants 1.7% of which half goes to Visa/Mastercard/AMEX. 

I welcome the end of cheques.

I rarely use cheques, but they are occasionally useful.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, processing a cheque costs double processing a credit card transfer or processing cash, e.g. extra 2%. Halcyon mentioned that 0.2% of transactions are via cheque. 2% of 0.2% is lost in the noise of other expenses.

I've worked for a company that provided financial settlement software. The amount of money and number of transactions is collossal, and is rarely completely reconciled. Each bank has its own rules on what non-reconciliations are acceptable, i.e. "lost in the noise". That vastly exceeds the cost of a small number of cheques - even if bounced cheques are included.

So the "vast cost of processing cheques" argument doesn't hold water. It is banks' greed, vastly inconveniencing some customers in order to increase the CEO's salary. Not acceptable.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Online TimFox

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #90 on: October 09, 2023, 01:48:54 pm »
Again, I would not force others to use checks, and would appreciate not being forced to use a telephone for payments myself.
Live and let live.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #91 on: October 09, 2023, 02:03:09 pm »
Again, I would not force others to use checks, and would appreciate not being forced to use a telephone for payments myself.
Live and let live.

Just so.

Being deaf, it is very hit-and-miss as to whether I could use a telephone: the person's voice and accent, background noises/voices, and VOIP over-provisioning are all problems.

Being deaf, I can't use a smartphone. I haven't been able to try a T4/M4 smartphone - and trying one is the only way to be sure. While I'm prepared to spend £20 to see if a cellphone is acceptable, I can't afford to buy multiple smartphones on the offchance that one might be usable.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Online themadhippy

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #92 on: October 09, 2023, 02:10:47 pm »
Quote
haven't been able to try a T4/M4 smartphone - and trying one is the only way to be sure.
Instead of the ole inductive coupling wouldnt a bluetooth enabled hearing aid give a better phone choice?
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #93 on: October 09, 2023, 02:13:10 pm »
I hope you guys can still pay in salt or silver coins. I mean, do the bad government want to get rid of directly exchanging donkeys for goods? Can you still use seashells though, right?

Clearly you are young. I presume you are going to avoid becoming old.
Clearly I was born in a soviet occupied country, where cheque usage was 0.00% and if you tried using it after 1989 everyone just assumed that you want to scam them.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #94 on: October 09, 2023, 02:20:12 pm »
I hope you guys can still pay in salt or silver coins. I mean, do the bad government want to get rid of directly exchanging donkeys for goods? Can you still use seashells though, right?

Clearly you are young. I presume you are going to avoid becoming old.
Clearly I was born in a soviet occupied country, where cheque usage was 0.00% and if you tried using it after 1989 everyone just assumed that you want to scam them.

You are avoiding the point. We noticed.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #95 on: October 09, 2023, 04:33:58 pm »
I don't see the phaseout of cheques as being related to bosses wanting bigger salaries.  Their salaries are set by market forces.

Really it's a case of a small number of people using an obsolete method to pay which costs a disproportionate amount to handle.  Bank transfers are free (in most countries) and safe.
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #96 on: October 09, 2023, 04:51:57 pm »
I hope you guys can still pay in salt or silver coins. I mean, do the bad government want to get rid of directly exchanging donkeys for goods? Can you still use seashells though, right?

Clearly you are young. I presume you are going to avoid becoming old.
Clearly I was born in a soviet occupied country, where cheque usage was 0.00% and if you tried using it after 1989 everyone just assumed that you want to scam them.

You are avoiding the point. We noticed.
Wait, your point is that old people cannot learn how to use anything else? That went totally over my head. Why?
Because I'm coming from a country, where nobody is using cheque, and we somehow manage.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #97 on: October 09, 2023, 05:10:52 pm »
To save trees.
Used trees will get re-planted.  It they aren't being used for paper, they will end up as lumber/wood anyways.
 

Offline jonpaul

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #98 on: October 09, 2023, 05:14:38 pm »
In a gov tax audit all proof is via paper evidence.

A canceled paper check is your best defense.

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Online tggzzz

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Re: Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030
« Reply #99 on: October 09, 2023, 05:31:53 pm »
I hope you guys can still pay in salt or silver coins. I mean, do the bad government want to get rid of directly exchanging donkeys for goods? Can you still use seashells though, right?

Clearly you are young. I presume you are going to avoid becoming old.
Clearly I was born in a soviet occupied country, where cheque usage was 0.00% and if you tried using it after 1989 everyone just assumed that you want to scam them.

You are avoiding the point. We noticed.
Wait, your point is that old people cannot learn how to use anything else? That went totally over my head. Why?
Because I'm coming from a country, where nobody is using cheque, and we somehow manage.

Don't be a twat!

As you will find - if you are lucky - the older you get the more difficult it is to take on radically new concepts.

My father, who had a DSc (i.e. >>PhD) in two phase flow and fluid dynamics, never really got to grips with the internet and web.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 


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