Author Topic: CCTV (home) options, especially ones without any subscriptions or cloud use  (Read 5346 times)

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Offline MK14Topic starter

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I'm intending on getting new CCTV equipment.  Ideally set up and installed by me (DIY), but I'm not ruling out getting professional installers.

What I already have (no longer set up, anyway) is too old, to consider useful these days (low res analogue), and has fallen out of use.  So in real terms, you can consider me starting from scratch, but I do have some experience with older CCTV stuff, I use to use a fair bit.

I've spent sometime researching this, recently.  But I've been horrified, by the huge abundance, of apparently rather cheap (e.g. £20/$20), CCTV cameras on e.g. Amazon.  But which either need a paid monthly subscription, or claim they don't, yet reading the reviews seems to indicate, that if you don't get the optional subscription, the camera mysteriously keeps on conking out, after perhaps 3 months, unless you start a paid subscription.

Why don't I like the idea of subscriptions and/or cloud based systems (no need to read this paragraph for many, who already know).
Because if it's £10/$10 a month and I use the cameras for 8 or so years, it would come to an extra £1000/$1000.
Also, the subscriptions price, could suddenly go up, perhaps dramatically, in later months/years, potentially disrupting a perfectly nicely working CCTV system.
Worse still, they could decide to stop the service, entirely and there are possible privacy concerns, having the video/audio feeds going to some cloud services, which might be able to see lots of stuff, both outdoors and indoors, where you live.

One apparent solution, is these 4 or 8 camera capable kits, a hard disk of perhaps 1TB, which come with perhaps 4 cameras and long leads, as well as the main control box/unit.  Which doesn't need any subscriptions/internet etc.

Another is to get a PI Zero (as many as needed), its CCTV camera case (I'm not sure how weather proof it is, though) plus a suitable camera module for it, and power supply.  The software for such an adventure, seems to be rather dated now (but that is not necessarily a show stopper).

I'm open to various budgets, but like the idea of some kind of camera which can go close to a window (with any IR night vision, being disabled to avoid it glowing against the window), with internal SD card (which can be a very heavy duty (extreme), high endurance card (or better), meant for such applications), I like the idea of it supporting some kind of remote local web (IP) access, perhaps recording a continuous week or so, of stuff.  But accept that external cameras (there is probably going to be other work, where I am, where such cameras might be, so now is probably not a good time for external ones), either now or in the future, may well be necessary.

I also fancy ESP32 based cameras, perhaps outside, on batteries, which only activate, when there are people (possible intruders), nearby.  But I'm not sure how realistic (i.e. are they toys/hobbyist-messing-around or professional tools).

Ideally I want to let this thread be a general CCTV one, so if you want to discuss various options (even if they don't suit me), or controversies over these subscriptions/cloud based services, etc.  That is fine, with me.

Examples (amazon links not put in, as they were a rather large number of lines of numbers and might not work, if people read this thread in years to come):

(following probably needs a subscription and even if it claims it doesn't, I suspect reviews on this or similar cameras, claiming it really needs one, even if they claim it doesn't, seem to be genuine reviews)
Tapo 2K Security Camera Outdoor, 360° PTZ WiFi Camera, IP65 Weatherproof CCTV for Home Security, Motion Tracking, Full-Colour Night Vision, Cloud&Local Storage,Works With Alexa&Google Home(Tapo C510W)  for around  Limited time deal
£46.99 with 33 percent savings -33%

I fancy PTZ (a remotely positional camera, Pan/Tilt/Zoom), especially for outside, as it avoids multiple trips up a ladder, making fine adjustments.  But it is by no means an essential requirement, especially for any indoor use ones.

The following is an example of a 4 camera set (which can accept 8 cameras, if you want), and seems to not need any subscriptions or internet.
ANNKE 8 Channel Outdoor Security CCTV Camera System with Smart Human & Vehicle Detection, 3K Lite H.265+ DVR with 1TB Hard Drive and 4x 1080P Home Security Cameras, Email & APP Alert with Images-E200 £169.99



In summary:
I DON'T want any subscriptions and/or (other peoples) cloud/servers, to be involved.  Regardless of how cheap the cameras seem to be.
I.e. It is like buying an inkjet printer for £10/$10, or a very cheap, high capability projector.  But new ink cartridges (with a tiny capacity), cost £50/$50 each, or new projector bulbs, are £500/$500 and don't last that long, etc.

If I've missed any information out, it could be, because I'm both open to a very wide range of possible solutions, and perhaps need to experiment and develop the CCTV system, over coming months and years.  E.g. AI detection of object types, sounds both fun/interesting but potentially problematic if it doesn't work reliably.  E.g. Too many false alarm alerts.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2024, 07:36:03 pm by MK14 »
 

Online nctnico

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I use a Foscam camera + Qnap NAS for this purpose. No subscription needed.
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Offline nfmax

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I use 3 Annke cameras of different types, powered by PoE, on their own LAN firewalled off from the Internet and anything else, controlled by Security Spy software running on a Mac Mini. This does motion detection and recording, and allows me to access real time camera feeds and recordings from the companion iPhone app, connecting to the router/firewall using a VPN
 
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Offline tom66

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I use analog Annke cameras, they go up to 4K now (low frame rates but it's CCTV so you rarely care.)  The Annke DVR has an ethernet port on it which exposes some RTSP streams to my Home Assistant interface on a Pi 3, the Pi then makes them accessible anywhere in the world.  You have to be a little bit keen to set something like this up, I have my own SSL certificate, DuckDNS domain (free), the HA instance runs in a Docker container, and the method for exposing the streams from the DVR is not particularly well documented (poorly translated pages on the Annke website), but it does work very well.

I do have a lot of other things integrated into Home Assistant too so it made some sense for me, for instance my smart heating system, car charging, and all the Zigbee smart devices.  All on my own personal service, which I own the infrastructure to, and with a monthly subscription cost of nil.

I modified the DVR to add an internal lead acid battery which gives it 30 minutes of runtime in the event of a power cut.  Not a perfect solution as the HDD dies before the DVR but avoids having the DVR go offline for short outages.  It back-powers the cameras through the power connector; the 12V power supply was 'tweaked' a little to increase the output to 13.5V keeping the lead acid battery in float charge. 

(The Ring camera is there too, but it only updates when motion is detected in its small zone.  Eliminating it is a longer term goal, but the OH is a fan, so it's staying for now.)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2024, 10:48:26 pm by tom66 »
 
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Offline soldar

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Yes, I have several IP cams on the LAN and an NVR recording 24/7. these days that is simple and inexpensive.

I would avoid WIFI as unreliable and easy to interfere with.

I do not have any memory cards on the cameras. Just the NVR which I put together myself.
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Offline AG6QR

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For several years, I've been using several outdoor cameras that work on wired ethernet (no WiFi). Though they communicate via ethernet, and can be set up to use cloud storage, I have kept mine strictly on my home's LAN.  I've set up rules on my firewall to ensure that they don't communicate outside my LAN, and I've verified that the cameras have never attempted to communicate to the outside world.  They detect motion, and when motion is detected, they push video to a NFS mounted drive on a computer on my home network, which has a huge disk available. The cameras also have internal SD cards, which will capture data if the copy to the home computer fails, but that doesn't happen often.  I supply power via the ethernet cable (POE), but a 12V barrel connector can be used instead.  The cameras I use are Amcrest model IP5M-B1186EW-28MM.  Around $60 USD.

Here's a sample image, straight from the camera.  It's about 7.5Mb, and not very exciting, so don't download if not interested.  It gives an idea of what the 2592 x 1944 resolution lets you see -- pretty reasonable, but not sufficient to read the license plates on any of the cars in that particular scene.

https://ag6qr.net/priv/NSoRgZ4o61m6bdzq5HuZ/AmcrestSample.png

They have a "night vision" mode with a built-in infrared light source.

There's an extensive set of configurable options available via their web interface. If you have a router/firewall set up with NAT, that web interface should only be available from your internal network, and not exposed to the outside world.
 
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Offline MK14Topic starter

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Thanks (everyone), for the nice and interesting responses (so far).  Also, thanks for warning me about using wireless, as I was originally seriously considering doing just that.

I'm disappointed (not with anyone here, and I suspected it was going to be the case), that Raspberry PI Zeros, ESP32's etc, plus suitable camera modules.  Although very abundant (now) and cheap, small and very low power consumption.  Are not going to be a (cheap, quick and very lazy) way of doing this.

I suppose, now I think about it.  That the user base here (in many cases), can lend itself to setting up network connections, messing around with IP addresses, using Linux (if the applicable camera/CCTV solution needs it, such as with the PI Zeros) where necessary, and is happy to mess around with many complicated (to 'normal' non-electronics/engineering people), wiring and connection types.

Hence the apparent growth in these CCTV subscription/app(phone)/cloud(server really), solutions, somewhat flooding the current market.

I.e. The average user doesn't even necessarily know what an IP address is, let alone know how to setup a local network, with (if necessary) NAS/Linux/other server(s) etc.

Also, (typically) understand why extreme/high-endurance SD cards are recommended, if continuously recording video, without using a NAS or similar.

I've currently got an ancient (never part of my previous setup, just added as a dummy/deterrent one) camera, setup outside, (not in use), but which can 'see' perhaps 80% or 90% (i.e. main front view, essentially sole/primary entry/exit points) of what I need (for security).  Along with preexisting wall fixings, hole in wall for cabling and reasonable access to mains power, inside.  Plus room to setup equipment, in a safe and dry environment.

But it could take 4 or more cameras in total (for front/back (possibly inside in addition) and parts the other cameras can't see, because of where they would be), if I try and reach nearer 100% coverage (in other areas, but intruders would usually use the main exit/entry point, in theory), so I plan to leave that for later.

I don't really like working at heights.  So getting a professional company, to set up multiple, high up cameras, may be what I end up doing, later.
 

Offline soldar

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Some more random thoughts. Cameras , NVR, etc are cheap enough that you can afford to just buy a bunch of things and start playing around. Some people seem to be able to make a plan beforehand and then carry it out but I am not one of them so I have changed camera locations, types, etc. Had to replace one camera which was acting erratically etc.

Of course, these days IP is the only way to go. Forget analog.

All my cameras are outside, none inside the house. Motion detection outside is worthless. It will probably work in a completely closed room with windows closed. Otherwise it is just being triggered all the time by anything moving or changes in light, animals, wind, clouds, the reflection of cars, etc. I would forget about motion detection outdoors in general. My cameras are older but maybe today you can get cameras intelligent enough to recognize persons or something and would not be falsely triggered, or not as often.

I have some cameras with night vision. This means they have IR light and they remove a filter at night. Or some have two separate lenses and sensors. The night part is very sensitive so it has a filter during daytime or the sensor would just be overwhelmed.

Regarding night vision, it will only work up to a short distance of, say 5 m. You can buy IR "illuminators" which will extend the range, say 10 m, but I do not think it is practical at greater distance. I have an IR night vision cam looking at the front gate which is perhaps 5 or 6 m from the house. It is also helped by some street lights. In the back the fence is like 12 m away and I have installed an additional  illuminator. And I have a third camera looking into the longer distance of the yard, say 15 - 20 m, and even though it does have night vision I have disabled it because it does not work so far. I had a very cheap non-IR camera there but it started going wonky and I replaced it with this one. If you place the cameras where you can access them easily then you can replace them, repair them, re-aim them easily. If you put them somewhere where only an expensive guy can get to them then your options are more limited. My house has balconies in the upper level and this is easy. Also, I have some cameras that are for indoor use but under the roof eaves and well protected they have lasted for many years already. If at all possible I would recommend placing the cameras where you can access them. One of my cameras is just inside a window.

Some have the POE. Just a couple of connectors at both ends which "inject" the power into the Ethernet cable.

If you build your own NVR recorder make sure you get a video grade HDD because it will be working 24/7 with a lot of wear and tear. I suppose you could be tempted to use any old disk but it might fail pretty soon.  I record everything 24/7. All in my NVR, no cloud for me.

Next to my computer screens I have a screen where I can see all the security cameras. Without getting up from my chair I can see who is at the front gate, I can see the neighborhood cats strolling and sometimes fighting. I am just used to seeing all around the house from here.
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Offline MK14Topic starter

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To be clearer.  Without going into details, there have been worrying incidents either at my (or local to me), homes, recently.  Pushing me into speeding up CCTV installation activities.  As I've wanted CCTV for a long time, but never really sorted it out.

Initially (in the next week or month, or so), I may be installing between 1 and 4 (plus) cameras.
0 to 1, external ones, in preexisting fixings etc.
0 to 3, indoor ones, looking at outside views (through windows, with care (i.e. disable the IR LEDs) to avoid nighttime IR LEDs making the images, unwatchable, as it gets reflected back by the window).

Plus (if possible/practicable) some kind of outdoor ESP32/PI-Zero, with batteries (wires e.g. for power, is an option), with some kind of intruder detection device (e.g. passive IR or microwave radar), to switch it on, when there is activity.  To give vision to areas, otherwise hidden from view, by the main camera system.  Early indications seem to show, that the ESP32's are not really suitable for this, as they are too limited, memory/software wise, but PI Zeros maybe suitable.

If intruder activities in my local area, persist to cause issues, I could be pressured, into getting a professional company to just install a CCTV system (ideally one without any recurring fees, or need for any propitiatory stuff, unique to the installing company, so I'm free to add to it, or change it, myself).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 07:25:14 am by MK14 »
 

Offline MK14Topic starter

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Some more random thoughts. Cameras , NVR, etc are cheap enough that you can afford to just buy a bunch of things and start playing around. Some people seem to be able to make a plan beforehand and then carry it out but I am not one of them so I have changed camera locations, types, etc. Had to replace one camera which was acting erratically etc.

Of course, these days IP is the only way to go. Forget analog.

All my cameras are outside, none inside the house. Motion detection outside is worthless. It will probably work in a completely closed room with windows closed. Otherwise it is just being triggered all the time by anything moving or changes in light, animals, wind, clouds, the reflection of cars, etc. I would forget about motion detection outdoors in general. My cameras are older but maybe today you can get cameras intelligent enough to recognize persons or something and would not be falsely triggered, or not as often.

I have some cameras with night vision. This means they have IR light and they remove a filter at night. Or some have two separate lenses and sensors. The night part is very sensitive so it has a filter during daytime or the sensor would just be overwhelmed.

Regarding night vision, it will only work up to a short distance of, say 5 m. You can buy IR "illuminators" which will extend the range, say 10 m, but I do not think it is practical at greater distance. I have an IR night vision cam looking at the front gate which is perhaps 5 or 6 m from the house. It is also helped by some street lights. In the back the fence is like 12 m away and I have installed an additional  illuminator. And I have a third camera looking into the longer distance of the yard, say 15 - 20 m, and even though it does have night vision I have disabled it because it does not work so far. I had a very cheap non-IR camera there but it started going wonky and I replaced it with this one. If you place the cameras where you can access them easily then you can replace them, repair them, re-aim them easily. If you put them somewhere where only an expensive guy can get to them then your options are more limited. My house has balconies in the upper level and this is easy. Also, I have some cameras that are for indoor use but under the roof eaves and well protected they have lasted for many years already. If at all possible I would recommend placing the cameras where you can access them. One of my cameras is just inside a window.

Some have the POE. Just a couple of connectors at both ends which "inject" the power into the Ethernet cable.

If you build your own NVR recorder make sure you get a video grade HDD because it will be working 24/7 with a lot of wear and tear. I suppose you could be tempted to use any old disk but it might fail pretty soon.  I record everything 24/7. All in my NVR, no cloud for me.

Next to my computer screens I have a screen where I can see all the security cameras. Without getting up from my chair I can see who is at the front gate, I can see the neighborhood cats strolling and sometimes fighting. I am just used to seeing all around the house from here.

Thanks.
You have described similar experiences, that I had, with my original CCTV system(s), from a rather long time ago.  Its analogue feed(s), went into a PC card, that accepted the RCA (IIRC) analogue inputs, into digital format, inside the ancient (now) PC.  As you said, I had exactly that problem, where the normal HDD, 'broke' (but amazingly worked again, after a big hard reformat of the disk, insisted upon, when claiming under the guarantee, Maxtor IIRC) after a few months of continuous CCTV use.

Yes, putting the camera(s), where they can be readily reached, by me (without having to pay big call out charges), is an excellent idea.

I did similar to you, and did lots of experimenting.  The raw equipment, is relatively cheap, compared to paying for a full scale professional installation, plus possible recurring/subscription/repair charges, over a period of time.

Although (as previously stated), I'm reluctant to go too high.  I can go high enough to be out of reach, by most intruders, which should do the job.

IP cameras, was exactly the direction, I was heading for, from my original research.

As you said (and also what I ultimately want), is to be able to see a few applicable views, from a computer monitor and/or TV (which can easily connect to a computer or handle viewing IP, itself), as needed (e.g. sudden unexpected loud noises etc).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 07:41:48 am by MK14 »
 

Offline soldar

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I have never found memory cards in the camera useful. I just have an NVR that records everything.

I am only interested in seeing what is going on outside, around the house. I want to see any nefarious activity outside. I do not find any use in indoor cameras but if you do install indoor cameras you need to be extra sure they cannot be accessed by hackers from the internet. It's not difficult but it's just one more thing which you can avoid at first in order to keep things simple.

You really do not need to know much of anything to set it up. Buy some cameras, NVR, and Ethernet cable as needed. Plug cameras into NVR. You can give the NVR its own monitor, like I have it, or access via LAN with a computer. You then go through the different NVR screens and menus to configure things. It is quite simple.

From where I sit I can see all around the house on the screen.  There is a speed bump on the road and some trucks make a loud clanging noise when they go over it at cruise speed. then I can just at the screen, which has a 2 - 3 second delay, and see what just made the noise. Or if I hear kids yelling or cats fighting.

By law I am not supposed to be recording the street, outside my property, but I do it anyway because nobody knows or cares.

if you want to detect intruders do not rely on camera motion detection but better get a dedicated perimeter alarm system as it is much more reliable.
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Offline soldar

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Although (as previously stated), I'm reluctant to go too high.  I can go high enough to be out of reach, by most intruders, which should do the job.

Regarding this point let me tell you... When I was younger I climbed like a monkey. I sailed and climbed the rigging of ships with tall masts. Now I am old and very aware of my limitations but I still have no problem getting where I want to go.

If you have a long ladder all you have to do is stay it well and it will not move. Tie two lines at the top, one on each side, and secure them well so the top cannot move. Same thing at the bottom. If the ladder is very long and it makes you feel more secure then add stays at the center. Add as many stays as you want until you are 100% sure the ladder will not move no matter what. You can then climb in total confidence but if it makes you feel more secure you can even use a safety harness. 

This takes time but you are not in a hurry.
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Offline Postal2

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CCTV sensor must be SONY only. Radar must see presence of body through wood door plus 3m. And at last cloud storage.
 

Offline soldar

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Even though it has been marginally mentioned I would state more strongly that you should consider any all all cameras insecure, maybe more so the cheap Chinese ones but I would not trust ANY camera and I would assume they all want to phone home and they all have back doors.

Keep them on an isolated LAN where they cannot access or be accessed from the Internet.

Later you can configure the LAN and router if you want so you can access from the Internet with VPN.

My cameras only view the yard, the outside of the house, so this is less of a concern but you should be especially careful if you have any cameras inside the house.

I am careful to always have my computer webcams covered when not in use.

Do not trust any camera or microphone until you have verified yourself that it is secure.
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Motion detection outside is worthless. It will probably work in a completely closed room with windows closed. Otherwise it is just being triggered all the time by anything moving or changes in light, animals, wind, clouds, the reflection of cars, etc. I would forget about motion detection outdoors in general. My cameras are older but maybe today you can get cameras intelligent enough to recognize persons or something and would not be falsely triggered, or not as often.
Frigate's AI motion detection works quite well outdoors.
Quote
If you build your own NVR recorder make sure you get a video grade HDD because it will be working 24/7 with a lot of wear and tear. I suppose you could be tempted to use any old disk but it might fail pretty soon.  I record everything 24/7. All in my NVR, no cloud for me.
The bitrates are pretty low so actually less of a workload than for typical home server duties.
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Offline nfmax

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The ‘AI’ motion detection and classification in Security Spy works well. The load on my M2 Mac Mini is negligible, and the storage used is  nothing to worry about. There’s no need for a dedicated NVR system any longer, at least not for only a few cameras. The cameras just provide a dumb video feed over Ethernet, I don’t use camera storage or motion detection.
 
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Offline soldar

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The bitrates are pretty low so actually less of a workload than for typical home server duties.

I don't even have a home server but I find it difficult to understand that a server would be using the bandwidth of several cameras 24/7.

At any rate, it doesn't matter. They make HDD especially for this type of application and a regular, much cheaper, HDD is likely to fail much sooner.

I have a WD purple HDD right here which has been going strong 24/7 for almost 12 years now.

OTOH I recently had a regular Toshiba HDD fail after only 7.5 years of irregular use in a desktop computer. After only 31000 hours which is 3.5 years of continuous use. And that is just the computer running, not writing to the disk
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/failing-win-xp-hdd/

All HDD are not made the same.  And I believe SSD are not recommended for NVR.
 
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Offline soldar

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The ‘AI’ motion detection and classification in Security Spy works well. The load on my M2 Mac Mini is negligible, and the storage used is  nothing to worry about. There’s no need for a dedicated NVR system any longer, at least not for only a few cameras. The cameras just provide a dumb video feed over Ethernet, I don’t use camera storage or motion detection.

I prefer to have a dedicated NVR just to keep things simple. The NVR runs free standing and not depending on anything else. Simple.

Over the years that I have had that NVR there I have messed a lot with my computers, changed configurations and computers, etc. I just like the simplicity of having separate things for separate things. Easier to set up, maintain, diagnose, etc.

Separate HDD too. I can record over a month of security video in the NVR. I would not want to have the computer have to run 24/7 or have the computer HDD have to deal with that. Just my preference. I suppose other people may prefer other configurations.

It also keeps the NVR and the computer on separate LANs for security.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 01:08:21 pm by soldar »
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Offline tom66

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Meanwhile I had a WD purple CCTV-rated HDD that inexplicably failed two months after its warranty expired... The plural of anecdote is not data though. 
 

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The bitrates are pretty low so actually less of a workload than for typical home server duties.
IMHO it is better to use a low framerate than a low resolution. With high resolution, it will be easier to identify a person. A trick I have learned from a specialist is to mount cameras in a way they look up. That way even when people wear hats, caps or hoodies their faces are likely to be well visible.
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Offline mendip_discovery

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I went for IP cameras plus a Ubiquity Dream Machine as that is a NVR plus firewall etc. I have a few Ubiquity access points to relive some of the stress on my router that seemed to struggle with the modern world.

I also have a couple of Blink cameras, these are a backup and used mostly for movement detection and a possible second view if the worst happens as they are inside and at eye level. No sub but they can turn it off at anytime.
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Offline MK14Topic starter

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I have never found memory cards in the camera useful. I just have an NVR that records everything.

I am only interested in seeing what is going on outside, around the house. I want to see any nefarious activity outside. I do not find any use in indoor cameras but if you do install indoor cameras you need to be extra sure they cannot be accessed by hackers from the internet. It's not difficult but it's just one more thing which you can avoid at first in order to keep things simple.

You really do not need to know much of anything to set it up. Buy some cameras, NVR, and Ethernet cable as needed. Plug cameras into NVR. You can give the NVR its own monitor, like I have it, or access via LAN with a computer. You then go through the different NVR screens and menus to configure things. It is quite simple.

From where I sit I can see all around the house on the screen.  There is a speed bump on the road and some trucks make a loud clanging noise when they go over it at cruise speed. then I can just at the screen, which has a 2 - 3 second delay, and see what just made the noise. Or if I hear kids yelling or cats fighting.

By law I am not supposed to be recording the street, outside my property, but I do it anyway because nobody knows or cares.

if you want to detect intruders do not rely on camera motion detection but better get a dedicated perimeter alarm system as it is much more reliable.

NVR seems to be exactly what I'm looking for, and need.  The PoE (power over Ethernet, so power comes from the Ethernet cable, so a single cable does power and data) versions, would also seem to reduce possible cabling headaches.  Just need to lay down and connect one Ethernet cable (per camera), back to the NVR box.

Although others have later in the thread, suggested using existing NAS capabilities, instead of a NVR.  I'd prefer to keep things modular, and have the NVR box separate from any NAS's that I use.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 10:18:20 pm by MK14 »
 

Offline MK14Topic starter

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Although (as previously stated), I'm reluctant to go too high.  I can go high enough to be out of reach, by most intruders, which should do the job.

Regarding this point let me tell you... When I was younger I climbed like a monkey. I sailed and climbed the rigging of ships with tall masts. Now I am old and very aware of my limitations but I still have no problem getting where I want to go.

If you have a long ladder all you have to do is stay it well and it will not move. Tie two lines at the top, one on each side, and secure them well so the top cannot move. Same thing at the bottom. If the ladder is very long and it makes you feel more secure then add stays at the center. Add as many stays as you want until you are 100% sure the ladder will not move no matter what. You can then climb in total confidence but if it makes you feel more secure you can even use a safety harness. 

This takes time but you are not in a hurry.

Thanks, that sounds like a good idea.  Fixing the ladder like that, should make me feel more secure, and allow a higher, safe working height.

Also, Pan-tilt-zoom (PTZ) types of camera, should mean that once installed, there is little need to have to repeatedly climb the ladder, to make fine positional adjustments, until the camera is facing in exactly the desired position.
 

Offline soldar

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My setup is pretty basic and cost me very little. Off the top of my head I figure you can get an NVR with HDD for, say, 80 USD, plus 4 cameras for under $100 for the four, plus ethernet cable, IP switch but these things cost me nothing. I had and have plenty ethernet cables and for switch I am using an old ADSL router where I just use the switch part but you can also get a second hand switch on ebay for close to nothing.  You should be able to put the whole thing together for under $200. Of course you can spend more if you feel like getting fancy about it.

You can use an unused computer as an NVR but you can get the electronic NVR board for like $25 and it is dedicated and uses less electricity. Just add HDD and enclosure.

Regarding pan tilt cameras, well, yes, but they are more expensive. Since I use mine mainly with the purpose of just recording I so not find that feature useful and fixed cams are cheaper.
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Offline MK14Topic starter

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Even though it has been marginally mentioned I would state more strongly that you should consider any all all cameras insecure, maybe more so the cheap Chinese ones but I would not trust ANY camera and I would assume they all want to phone home and they all have back doors.

Keep them on an isolated LAN where they cannot access or be accessed from the Internet.

Later you can configure the LAN and router if you want so you can access from the Internet with VPN.

My cameras only view the yard, the outside of the house, so this is less of a concern but you should be especially careful if you have any cameras inside the house.

I am careful to always have my computer webcams covered when not in use.

Do not trust any camera or microphone until you have verified yourself that it is secure.

Yes, that's how I would interpret the situation as well.  Basically create a VLAN or similar, just for the NTR (cameras), or a separate network system, which doesn't (at least directly), connect to the internet.
 


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