CCTV (home) options, especially ones without any subscriptions or cloud use

[mendip_discovery]

CCTV will only push the criminal to another place. But many don't care these days, they know the police are too busy to do much about anything.

It does make you feel better and along with your neighbours can help you deal with what  happened, how they did it so you can prevent the next time.

Not sure about the figures but I have been told most cctv isn't much use in court as the quality has to be beyond a reasonable doubt etc etc.

As a friend often says, the best security to use is security you will use.

I have very good cctv of some lads nicking one of my motorcycles. Never got anything back from the police about it.

[watchmaker]

In the old house and when I was actively doing high-end restorations, I installed a hardwired  IP system based on HikVision cameras and Blue Iris software that worked well.

That setting was semi-rural. 

Ultimately I decided that all I cared about was the license plate and knowing if someone was inside the house when we were not there.  One camera was used to get a good shot of any license plate that came up the drive.  I also had a highly visible camera high up on a corner (this actually reduced the number of "tourists" going up the use in common drive).  The license plate camera was also highly visible and placed right over the garage door.

My focus on outdoor cameras was deterrence.  My monitoring was focused on actual intruders.

What I monitored was inside the house.  We used geofencing to turn on inside house alerts when we were gone.  One camera in the family room and another in the shop.  These sent email and push notifications if the triggers were set off.  The included a picture of what caused the alert and also text with the phone number of the local precinct.  The plan was to tell the officer on desk that I had an actual picture and active video of an intruder.  Could also alert us via phone while we slept (our bedroom was the farthest room form only access point; being 8 feet above grade).

That system had 8 POE cameras with a couple switches. Even ran one 200 ft to a little pond for giggles. The system worked well when we travelled abroad and when our daughter checked on the house we got the expected push notifications and emails.

We now live in truly rural New Hampshire and I am again setting up a system using Blue Iris and will follow the same basic plan.  But I will try to avoid a hard wired network; one Wifi camera works well, another wildlife camera (bears, bobcats, coyotes, bats) will need to be put on a wifi bridge.  I like the features but its radio really sucks.  Once I get that ironed out, I will add two more cameras to monitor for intruders.  Will need to see what happens to my bandwidth.

Blue Iris is feature rich (can be triggered by a full range of I/O), includes a web server and phone app, AI enhanced motion detection and license plate recognition, runs on any computer and is a one time cost of about $60 with over 10 years of an active support forum.  It just takes a while to understand where to find all the settings.  While I never it considered important, you can FTP the videos to your web site.

I only use cloud storage for temporary storage of phone pics until I download them onto my HDD or to share access of documents.  Once someone else is the custodian, you lost control of your stuff.

What I learned from the old system was the more you add to your system, the harder it is to manage.  Think about what is really important to you.  Personally, I think fire and water damage are higher risks than burglary.  Look up the stats in your region.  This is one of the many reasons I like Blue Iris.

Do you have a fire escape ladder in higher bedrooms?  A "security system" is not the highest priority when it comes to personal safety.

"Stuff" can be replaced.  A "safe room" that blocks an intruder until everyone can get out the window is more useful than confronting them in the dark with a handgun or shotgun (again, look up stats on outcomes).

If you have stuff that you need secured, buy a safe that weighs at least 500 pounds and put it in the basement.  This will protect your documents and stuff against fire, flood and theft (mass is your only friend here).  Too many people waste money on easily moved
"gun safes" when a real safe can be purchased for the same amount of money that are fire and flood rated.

Be aware that in the US, safety deposit boxes are extremely insecure.  Research the number of collectors who lost their stuff when a bank changed hands and sold the contents so they could remove the boxes.  Not as rare as you would hope.  Again, once someone else is the custodian, you have given up control.

Just sayin.

OTOH, one neighbor in Maryland had a very subtle but highly effective warning sign.  Right outside his front door he had a bucket filled with spent .38 caliber casings.  Most visitors would not notice, but anyone seeking to break in would get its meaning.

[NiHaoMike]

I have very good cctv of some lads nicking one of my motorcycles. Never got anything back from the police about it.

That is where the embedded jammer rigged to operate if stolen would be very helpful. Determining if it got stolen is going to be much harder compared to something that stays at home, maybe check if it has been within range of your phone or other everyday carry device within the last 24 hours.

[soldar]

Just for added info

How To Turn Your Old Phone Into a Home Security Camera for Free

https://www.cnet.com/home/security/how-to-turn-your-old-phone-into-a-home-security-camera-for-free/

It's time for your old iPhone or Android device to be reborn as a security camera.

[RJSV]

   I don't know a huge amount on the cameras, but monitoring any new developments regarding CELLPHONE cameras (being hacked).
   Of course, some readers might have seen news reports, of criminals self-organizing to be more effective.   One trend seems to be the deliberate placement, of covert surveillance,  having a cellphone (camera) watching house and ability to monitor residents habitual schedules.   Not good.
   Plus, anybody seeing that trend could imagine other, clever scenarios, such as 'monitoring' an entire street section on a cul-de-sac or dead-end.   That would enable a more 'harvesting' approach....targeting a group of homes.
That's organized crime becoming more efficient, makes sense for ANY organization.

   I know, odds if my own cellphone (camera) being hacked is low....still, I routinely place phone up high, behind stuff, when undressing...just a habit, as you have to put (phone) down somewhere....might as well be pro-active.
(Some folks take the cellphone into bathroom....something to read while 'busy')

[MK14]

I missed the following out originally, as I didn't want to give out too much private information.

I've recently had a spate of things, such as an attempted burglary (I shouted at the culprit(s) (there were between one and a few culprits, at different stages of the break in attempt), the Police were in attendance, as the culprit(s), may have been hiding),  EDIT:**possibly actual burglaries (unsure if they managed to get in or not, some signs of damage/messing inside, but not 100% conclusive) and significant damage to a number of things, outside.

It is costing thousands of pounds, to put things right.  But some of the things could have done with being renewed, anyway.  So, the real cost is hard to estimate.

E.g. They smashed up a window, a few days ago.  I don't know if it was the same culprits, but I suspect it was.

I might be at risk of physical harm, so I have to deal with the immediate threats, and try not to confront them, myself.

The Police and other people, know that other property(s) in the region (Town), have had possibly similar issues, but it could also be unrelated.

Some (e.g. The Police) think that these are targeted attacks, and they are seeking out certain properties, on purpose.

As others have kindly pointed out (both in this thread and through other communication, mediums), thanks!
This situation and my CCTV requirements, don't have the time to wait for me to mess around with Raspberry PIs and stuff, taking many months or a year, to eventually sort out what I need.

So, I need to take what immediate steps that I can do now (thanks for the advice!).
Such as activating any existing cameras, I can very quickly get to operate, such as a wildlife camera (with internal SD card, and passive IR detection to start and stop, recording, which I can put in a suitable spot, quickly), I've got, but not used yet.

Panic alarm(s), as it is getting risky, if intruders manage to break in.

My overall physical home security, is being improved, on an ongoing basis.  Making it a lot tougher for intruders to get in.

So a professional CCTV company, can rapidly access the actual specific building layout, and devise suitable solutions, given the exact situation.

Also, as already mentioned.  Lighting is extremely important.  So I intend to have the existing security lighting situation, significantly improved.

I feel a bit like when a beginner, starts a thread, saying something like, they feel they need a 200GHz 16 channel oscilloscope, to start learning about electronics for the first time.  So, they have decided to start off by building their own, 200GHz oscilloscope from scratch, using some transistors they bought for $0.99 on ebay, from China.  How hard can it be?

EDIT:** Most likely, nobody, actually broke in.  But there was an attempted break-in (while I was in, I heard it (loud bangs) and went to where they were trying to break in, and shouted, which worked, and they ran off, to (what I presume, as I saw them all together, when I searched the street for the culprits, a couple of minutes or so, later) meet up with a few others, in the street or on the other side of where I am).
E.g. (There was a lot of electronics stuff, where I was most suspicious, they may have been), but they would have disturbed a number of things, in that area, just by messing around there.  But everything I've looked at, seems to be where it was, from before the incident(s).
Such as a set of resistors (on cut tape, through hole, 1/4 watt, with perhaps 10 or so, on it), which had fallen, and were only just stopped by something, from dropping onto the floor, about half-way up.  I'd noticed them a while ago, but (lazy) didn't bother to put them back where they belonged.

[PlainName]

Really sorry to learn of your situation. I would seriously think about getting in professional installers and remote monitoring. Of course, that may not be affordable, but perhaps your  home insurance may contribute.

[soldar]

I feel a bit like when a beginner,

I know exactly what you mean because I was there when I started with this. People breaking in to the house I had just bought and the houses around it, the police showing no interest and making me wait hours to file a report... feeling insecure at night ... etc.

Then I started looking at security cams specs and it is a forest where I just got lost. So many specs and no way to know what is relevant or important. Like when you arrive in a new town, after a while things begin to become clearer. You memorize the main avenues, gradually some smaller ones, etc. But it takes time.

Besides CCTV I have used and still use

- Exterior lights which detect movement and turn on

- Interior lights on timers

- TV simulator. I put it shining up against a window curtain and it gives the impression there is a TV in the room.  I just checked prices and they're selling for more than twice what I paid ten years ago. https://www.ebay.com/itm/195431104196

- PIR motion detectors inside which sound a Ding Dong chime.

[MK14]

Really sorry to learn of your situation. I would seriously think about getting in professional installers and remote monitoring. Of course, that may not be affordable, but perhaps your  home insurance may contribute.

I'm hoping it is going to stop, in which case I will/should be fine, and get over it.  But will still need/want CCTV, either way.

But if it continues, I will have to make a massive effort to get the Police to catch them.  CCTV being the most promising method.

I accept some of the blame for this.  For example, I knew one of my security lights needed a new bulb (the main incident, was in daylight, but I'm just giving you some background information), and hadn't got it replaced yet (probably with a similar LED version), and many other little (or bigger) things, which mount up.  There are other things, that could be improved, not just by adding a CCTV system.

Don't necessarily think that is a small issue.  Many years ago, that and/or another security related light, had its bulb burn out.  I then had signs of people messing around, the next day.

Some sources, seem to think/explain, that various opportunists/burglars/vandals etc, go roaming round, looking for opportunities.  So (many years ago), they noticed the dark section and/or thought no one was in and/or noticed it was unusually NOT lit up, and then messed around (or even tested to see if they could easily break in).

Reading a local newspaper, a rather long time ago.  It warned residents, not to leave their front-door open (unattended), even for a few minutes, as these opportunist(s), would nip in, steal stuff, then run off.

[watchmaker]

Wow.  This is horrible.  This sounds like Stanley Kubrick kind of stuff.

This sounds like even the basic deterrence value of visible cameras is degraded because of what was said about the value of recordings in UK courts.  From the sounds of it, police response time is not that great.   And I agree, the police generally are not that helpful until there is a serious injury.

Are you heading towards grills on lower windows, hardened doors, etc?  Bear spray around the house?  (I have a can in both cars and not for bears!).

I grew up in a low income housing project (estate in UK I think) and while it was a rough neighborhood, no one bothered breaking in to steal.  And I saw what it meant to become a target.  I am truly sympathetic.

[MK14]

I feel a bit like when a beginner,

I know exactly what you mean because I was there when I started with this. People breaking in to the house I had just bought and the houses around it, the police showing no interest and making me wait hours to file a report... feeling insecure at night ... etc.

Then I started looking at security cams specs and it is a forest where I just got lost. So many specs and no way to know what is relevant or important. Like when you arrive in a new town, after a while things begin to become clearer. You memorize the main avenues, gradually some smaller ones, etc. But it takes time.

Besides CCTV I have used and still use

- Exterior lights which detect movement and turn on

- Interior lights on timers

- TV simulator. I put it shining up against a window curtain and it gives the impression there is a TV in the room.  I just checked prices and they're selling for more than twice what I paid ten years ago. https://www.ebay.com/itm/195431104196

- PIR motion detectors inside which sound a Ding Dong chime.

Yes, that is it.  There were hundreds (very rough estimate) of CCTV cameras (and related things, such as NVRs etc), for sale on Amazon UK.  All (or just about all) at arguably affordable prices.  Most seem to be in the £20 .. £60 range per camera, unless you go for some of the rather high end features, such as very high resolution etc.

The makes and features, didn't make a lot of sense to me.

...So yes, a beginner.

Near top of my list now, is to look into reputable profession CCTV installers, and probably go with a somewhat small (low/reasonable cost), package.

So, something like a 4 camera setup, with a NVR (other possible options, could still be good), made from reputable well known equipment manufacturers, which should ensure its maintainability and serviceability, for the next 10 years or so.

Really, some of the cameras are probably best placed high up, which I don't want to get involved with myself (but thanks for the posters, who gave tips on how to approach it, safely).

Also, the very experienced, CCTV installation expert (hopefully), will know from their many years or decades of experience, where to place the cameras (and how many), to get, vantage points, to see most of the useful action.

Taking into account, where the existing security and other types of night lighting is.

Also, without spending excessive amounts of money, on non-useful CCTV camera features, in my situation.  Will know the most appropriate camera types, to put, into the various positions.

I suspect a (perhaps) 4 camera solution, with NVR, and good quality equipment.  Won't cost that much, to get, professionally installed.

Even if I did it myself, I'd still need to pay for the equipment and pay for someone to go up high and install them.

I don't really want to explain why (privacy), but going up ladders, beyond a few feet (maybe a small amount higher for a very short period of time), is not likely to be done by me.  It is not just a matter of me not wanting to go higher.

[MK14]

Wow.  This is horrible.  This sounds like Stanley Kubrick kind of stuff.

This sounds like even the basic deterrence value of visible cameras is degraded because of what was said about the value of recordings in UK courts.  From the sounds of it, police response time is not that great.   And I agree, the police generally are not that helpful until there is a serious injury.

Are you heading towards grills on lower windows, hardened doors, etc?  Bear spray around the house?  (I have a can in both cars and not for bears!).

I grew up in a low income housing project (estate in UK I think) and while it was a rough neighborhood, no one bothered breaking in to steal.  And I saw what it meant to become a target.  I am truly sympathetic.

I still had some older generation, doors (but some were/are already modern types).  Which are relatively weak, and somewhat easy for burglars to get through (which I didn't really appreciate, until AFTER the attempted break-in).  They also, weaken, as they get older (depending on the type and materials, used to make the door).

I should have been much more proactive, and updated any such doors, to the more modern door types.  Which can be considerably more resistant, against burglaries.

It is not necessarily a bad area, as such.  But roaming criminals (in some cases, apparently criminals vary as to what type of dwellings, they are going to attempt to break into), can readily see what your door types are, and specifically target, any homes, with older, much less secure door types.  Which might also involve them wondering/climbing, into the rear garden/yard/area of properties, and maybe even pushing/pulling on doors, to see how secure they feel.

To me, those older style doors, seemed fine and felt secure (enough).  But I've now learnt, and heard from talking to people, and the internet.  That they are NOT, especially secure, and perhaps should be replaced, regardless of whether you have had trouble or not yet.

One door and similar, has already been partially improved (strengthened) for now, some others, serviced/improved and sometimes strengthened and I'm in the middle, of having even better doors (modern ones) put in, where applicable.  Which give, considerably better strength and resistance to burglary attempts.

Really, I knew some doors, were not in 100% brilliant condition, so elements of putting things off, that should be done (procrastination etc), are seemingly present.  Hence (one of), the reasons, I said earlier, I have to accept, some of the blame.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't need doors, let alone robust, modern secure ones.  But in practice, I was perhaps too confident and complacent, and perhaps subconsciously thought, something on the lines of  "it will never happen to me, will it?".

[Postal2]

But if it continues,......

In this case, the police know exactly who it is.

[MK14]

But if it continues,......

In this case, the police know exactly who it is.

It wouldn't surprise me.  But it really needs hard evidence, to prove it, to the Police and courts, if necessary.

Even if I found them (as I have a reasonable idea what, at least some of the culprits look like).  I wouldn't really be able to prove it (at the moment, without working/active CCTV and/or other things), unless they owned up to doing it.

Unfortunately, in the UK these days, I seem to hear, that there are way, way more crimes committed, than available prison spaces.  So, a lot of criminals, get away with it.  Even if caught.

Really, just like with accidents, illnesses or ones health or life.  Prevention of harm, is much more preferable than dealing with the aftermath.

[NiHaoMike]

How about a remote controlled laser turret? A few watts of laser light applied to the eyes for a split second would make them far less effective as thieves.

[MK14]

How about a remote controlled laser turret? A few watts of laser light applied to the eyes for a split second would make them far less effective as thieves.

Following ideas, not necessarily mine, but could be from people in this thread.

Maybe I'm too nice.  But something like an older/unused PC, with some old webcam or something, positioned to see through a window, or something.  Would be a quick, relatively easy, way of at least making me feel better, and possibly catching them, if they return.

There are other similar solutions, such as leaving an old mobile phone on video camera mode or similar, poking through a window.

I'll see what I can quickly lash up.

[PlainName]

Hence (one of), the reasons, I said earlier, I have to accept, some of the blame.

Absolutely not. The people carrying the blame are the ones breaking in, not the victims of those break-ins.

It's all very well thinking you could have made this or that more secure, but the fact is that you're not a thieving git and thus don't see the opportunities available to them. For instance, once upon a time we had a garage built and ensured the swing doors had decent locks. Then some gits broke into it by grabbing the handles and shaking the door until the static bolts came loose. Not something I would have thought of trying. So we removed the door handles (now we can only open them by putting the key in the lock and using that as a handle - a right pain), and two weeks later they broke in again (as the police will tell you they will - they wait for you to replace stuff on insurance and then come back to nick that as well). This time they came in a window, so now the garage has shutters across all the nice windows so it's dark inside instead of having decent light to work in.

I think the single thing that made us more secure was reducing the possibility for opportunistic thieving. Our drive used to be open but now has electric gates, and I'm sure that's made a difference - previously, I have headed off someone coming up the drive to have a look around, but it was easy to mistake the drive for a public road so that kind of thing happened quite innocently.

We just had a notice from the local police to say that thieves are walking  up drives to try the handles on cars parked there. Doesn't matter if anyone is in or not. Cost of living crisis must be making them bolder.

[MK14]

How about a remote controlled laser turret? A few watts of laser light applied to the eyes for a split second would make them far less effective as thieves.

What would you say to the person you hit, if it was an innocent bystander, or mixup/confusion, and it hit the wrong people?

How would you put it right?

Also, how would you explain it to the Police?

What if you get the settings wrong and end up killing them?

How will you explain it, to the parents/friends and criminal associates, of the perpetrator, when they turn up on your doorstep, with a big lynch mob?

[MK14]

Hence (one of), the reasons, I said earlier, I have to accept, some of the blame.

Absolutely not. The people carrying the blame are the ones breaking in, not the victims of those break-ins.

Thanks for that!

If the perpetrators, were really nice people.  They would knock on my door, wait until they happen to see me or maybe leave a note, through the letterbox.  saying something on the lines of, I thought I would tell you your door looks weak, you might want to improve it.

Not exploit the weak door (or garage lock, in your case), to actually break in and/or do vandalism.

Cost of living crisis must be making them bolder.

I think that is a major factor, in my recent experiences.  Some crime rates, especially burglaries and stuff, are probably sky rocketing, right now.  With some people not even bothering to try and report it to the Police.  So the crime statistics, may not even show the true level of crime.

Which gives me a partial sense of sympathy for the perpetrators.  But not that much, as next time, it could be a person, in a far worse situation than me (for all they seem to care or know), and they (the victim(s) ) could end of falling and having a heart attack, or something, as a result.

I'm also partly worried for the perpetrators.  They could have badly hurt themselves, e.g. bad cuts, when they broke the window, recently.  Also, sooner or later, they could attack the wrong home, and end up getting hurt, themselves.

It is a pity, times are so hard, for many people.  I hope things dramatically improve, in the not too distant future.

[NiHaoMike]

What would you say to the person you hit, if it was an innocent bystander, or mixup/confusion, and it hit the wrong people?

It would be in an area where they shouldn't be.

What if you get the settings wrong and end up killing them?

It would be virtually impossible to kill them with a few watts of laser light. You'll have to go up to the hundreds to thousands of watts to have a decent chance of a kill, even then it would likely take longer than would be desired for a weapon.

I'm also partly worried for the perpetrators.  They could have badly hurt themselves, e.g. bad cuts, when they broke the window, recently.  Also, sooner or later, they could attack the wrong home, and end up getting hurt, themselves.

That would be a good thing, making crime more dangerous would discourage it. Certainly don't feel bad for them, bad stuff happening to them while they're doing something they shouldn't be doing is what they deserve.

[soldar]

Complicated problems require a lot of analysis and complex, multi-pronged solutions. Anyone who thinks they have a simple solution to a complicated problem does not know what they are talking about.

Some countries even have the death penalty after due process of law while in many other countries the mobs just lynch thieves to death. it happens daily in Brazil and twice on Sundays. It does not deter the crooks.

It is much more complicated than just imposing strong punishments.

But people are not inclined to thinking too much so they love simple explanations ("it's all the fault of THAT group") and simple solutions and will vote for candidates who promise the simplest and most effective solution. And when things don't work that way they blame those who disagree rather than considering why maybe it didn't work.

Things are complicated. In engineering and in life.

[Postal2]

....when they broke the window, recently.  ....

They hit him with a slingshot from a distance in order to see who would come out or even lure him out and hit him in the head.
About laser... Not so. Make a setup ultraviolet lamps with 120 nm wavelength to garage, masked to illumination. Need about 40 sec for criminals to watch.

[RJSV]

   Difficult problems.   But one thing that comes to mind, regarding defensive devices that might 'punish' a trespasser, is ask this:
   'What do you think a nasty group of hardened crims would do, when someone STEALS from them ?'

   I mean, consider an urban setting with several large rival gangs.   I'm not a criminology expert but usually there will be 'leaders' maybe 'spys' etc.
Heck, probably also have the equivalent of an HR Dept.  a humorous but real question.
The (criminal gangs) likely, very likely have 'enforcers' to effectively deal with problems, whether inside or outside the 'peer group'.

   Only things, organizational, maybe missing, is liability, for injuring somebody during the encounters.   The limits a law abiding victim has, also extend to the police, as formal guidelines get very complex, and self-limiting.

   Thus, here in the U.S. I fear there could be a rise in the MOB violence, mentioned earlier here
People getting fed-up with lack of perceived lack of formal police protection.

   Anybody remember the old, cowboy days, when there were private Bounty Hunters ?
That could be seeing a re-birth as public response falters.

Sorry, MK14,...I've been holding my tongue on my usual rants,...(Waiting for others to chime in, otherwise I would not have placed this reply).

[RJSV]

   One suggestion I'd consider good, is the purchase of reinforced screen door, that gets placed into a strong frame.
The kind I've seen and used is all metal, uses heavy metal tubing, as frame, and uses heavy metal screening...so some air gets through, and also you can see through, when someone knocks, who it might be.
I suppose, in a residence you could have that heavy secure screen door locked, on a hot evening, but get some airflow, by opening the traditional wood door inside. (Until bedtime).

   But the heavy doors I've seen were at RETAIL locations.   You CAN, however, witness that type of door, in a hugh-crime area (Compton).  It's in the movie, 'FRIDAY', at the dog catcher's house.

[NiHaoMike]

About laser... Not so. Make a setup ultraviolet lamps with 120 nm wavelength to garage, masked to illumination. Need about 40 sec for criminals to watch.

My understanding is that UVC just burns the outside, unpleasant but would heal. A visible or near IR laser causes internal damage, likely permanent.