CCTV (home) options, especially ones without any subscriptions or cloud use

[PlainName]

I think the original laser comment was probably made in jest, but just in case anyone takes it seriously...

After our original break-in I was looking to add security so designed and made an alarm system. But an alarm going on in a remote(ish) garage and house doesn't really do much - neighbours ignore them (if they hear them) thinking it's accidental, which it is probably most of the time. And it's not a deterrent as such, more an annoyance the perp can easily put up with.

So I put in a loud (and I mean loud) siren. When the alarm was triggered this siren would sound for 5-10 seconds, and then the real siren(s) would go off. We're talking 140dB, all internal to the garage. The idea was to disorientate the intruders, and a practice run was positive - when it went off I was completely unable to do anything, like find the damn key to disable it, and just had to get outside.

In the end it got turned off permanently because it got triggered by me, the cats, etc., forgetting it was set or similar. (Now, many years wiser, allegedly, I am having the same issue with the electric fence - if I remember to turn it off I probably flick the wrong switch and it's too tedious to check the lights since I am SURE it was the right switch, and it clicked!, and next thing you know....).

The thing to bear in mind with all these solutions is that it's likely going to be the householder 'testing' it's effectiveness most of the time. Something easily survivable without permanent marking has to be the aim.

[Postal2]

My understanding is that UVC just burns the outside, unpleasant but would heal. ...

I bought these lamps, but of low power, on Aliexpress, to disinfect viruses and against mosquitoes, midges and flies (which is absolutely legal for a garage). In the reviews you can easily read how curious people damaged their eyes. I'm talking specifically about lamps with a wavelength of 120 nm, they also produce a lot of ozone, which can cause coughing.

[NiHaoMike]

I think the original laser comment was probably made in jest, but just in case anyone takes it seriously...

After our original break-in I was looking to add security so designed and made an alarm system. But an alarm going on in a remote(ish) garage and house doesn't really do much - neighbours ignore them (if they hear them) thinking it's accidental, which it is probably most of the time. And it's not a deterrent as such, more an annoyance the perp can easily put up with.

So I put in a loud (and I mean loud) siren. When the alarm was triggered this siren would sound for 5-10 seconds, and then the real siren(s) would go off. We're talking 140dB, all internal to the garage. The idea was to disorientate the intruders, and a practice run was positive - when it went off I was completely unable to do anything, like find the damn key to disable it, and just had to get outside.

In the end it got turned off permanently because it got triggered by me, the cats, etc., forgetting it was set or similar. (Now, many years wiser, allegedly, I am having the same issue with the electric fence - if I remember to turn it off I probably flick the wrong switch and it's too tedious to check the lights since I am SURE it was the right switch, and it clicked!, and next thing you know....).

The thing to bear in mind with all these solutions is that it's likely going to be the householder 'testing' it's effectiveness most of the time. Something easily survivable without permanent marking has to be the aim.

The laser turret would be remote controlled, not automated. When not in use, it would be returned to a "stowed" position clearly not aimed into the space it's supposed to protect.

[pardo-bsso]

The best security you can have is a good neighbour, and preferably one with a decent surveillance system.   

I second this.

When I had a break-in some pictures from the house next door, posters at the street and a small targeted facebook ad found them and I even managed to get back a bicycle.

[pardo-bsso]

About the cameras,

I bought a lot of Ubiquity Aircams with their mounts and POE adapters for cheap.
They are old but picture quality is good (1920x1080) and the video stream can be
accessed by almost everything.

I'm still looking for free/open solutions to the software side. I used zoneminder
ages ago...

[Postal2]

I'm still looking for free/open solutions to the software side. ...

I can upload here old solution from "Creative webcam", can be connected to any source. Contains dlls from 1996 and detects movement in a pre-selected area.

Here it is. Simply unzip, copy whole directory, use reg-file first and run.

[MK14]

Thanks, the advice was good and correct (sourced from member(s) here).  I should have gone to a commercial CCTV company and set up some very quick CCTV capabilities.  Such as a webcam + PC, looking out of window(s).

But in practice, I do really like the idea, of sorting my own CCTV system, and hope the following details, explain how it should give me very basic CCTV capabilities, reasonably soon, details below:

Update:
I've not had any further troubles, so far.
So, (Optimistically), I'm hoping that that is it, at least for many years, and longer to come.

But need to (Pessimistically, assume/design for the worse), devise and keep on top of my security solutions/implementations.

I've NOT dabbled with the suggested quick, CCTV fixes, such as mounting the wildlife camera.  I want something more 'solid' and longer term.  So, I'm NOT pressured, into very rapidly getting an expensive/complicated CCTV system up and running, too quickly.

Instead, I'm moving into implementing an initial/quick CCTV system, in stages.

From this thread, and other sources, also related to this forum (thanks!), plus more research by me.  The recommendation seems to be to not get involved with the bottom end (non-professional) CCTV cameras, such as many of the Amazon ones.

It is not just their possible subscriptions, WiFi ones (as already mentioned), it is not the best of ways, to setup a reliable CCTV.

They tend to be poorer quality, in various respects.

So, (better details to follow, in later write ups), I've bought a set of high end, professional CCTV cameras, made by Panasonic, on ebay, at very reasonable cost (tested working, reliable ebay seller, one is even unused, so classed as new) (unfortunately they are these not so small, dome type, but I like their quality/PTZ, and great prices, I managed to get).  They are very high end (a tiny/little bit old, but still fairly/rather modern ones, but they seem to suit my needs, very well), with PTZ, with zoom that is a real optical zoom type, 1080P, 40 metre IR illumination if required, full colour, even at night, even if there is only a bit of light.  (as mentioned IR Leds if not, 0 lux).

Being professional cameras, they (if I believe their brochures), will give nice clean, smooth, auto-focused, and very well light balanced images, even under challenging lighting conditions.

They are PoE (just needs a single cable), mostly indoor only, but one outdoor rated one.

Apparently full featured network (IP) capabilities.  I.e. A webbrowser pointed at them, will give lots of functionality.

To hit the ground running quickly, if I understand things correctly.  I can give one (or more), a suitable SD card and PoE injected power supply, for now.  Point it/them, out of a suitable position(s), such as a window, with the appropriate view(s).

Leaving them on continuous recording to the SD card (probably extreme high endurance type).

That will do for now and give me time (weeks or months), to setup something more permanent.  If there are any further incidents, I know that those SD card(s), would hopefully have footage on them, of the culprit(s).

A more permanent solution, later, maybe much later, is to put one camera at the front, and one at the back.  I've found suitable potential mounting positions.  Would then put 4 way/channel (maybe more) PoE network boxes, front and back (single box would be too much cabling I think).  Connecting each box to my (or a) network, so I can see multiple camera views at the same time.

I can then add more cameras (via those PoE boxes), at  a later stage.

I still 100% agree with anyone who suggested getting a commercial company, to sort me out.  But I'm still hoping I can lash up something, quickly enough, to meet my needs.

If the installation, beyond putting them in room(s), to see out through window(s), ends up being too hard.  I will still need to consider commercial companies, to do the bigger installation work.

N.B. I haven't spent that much on the cameras (very approximately, around £15 unit, including postage, price varies, as two different varieties, involved), so still have plenty of theoretical budget, to get more suitable (extra) cameras and/or a commercial company in to do it properly, as future options.

The big advantage (to me), is that if I do it all myself.  I will be able to readily maintain and fix it.  As they will be as high as I can reach, with my ladder(s), and I will know everything I've done, to get them working.

It will take a bit of time, to get initially working, even for the quick test and setup, as I will need to sort out PoE injectors (they may have additional powering up means, I'm not sure at this stage, perhaps 12V inputs), the network connect(s) etc.

But I'd prefer a semi-decent, semi-permanent, but working solution.  Rather than very quick fixes, but ones that don't really work out, too well.
Because, as I mentioned earlier.  Even just one proper CCTV camera, set on permanent (loop) recording, if pointed to a front view.  Should pick up >=90% of all incidents/activities.

[watchmaker]

 

[RJSV]

   Two thoughts, relating to home burglary:
   
   First;  While the rest of the house inhabitants went out of town, for a week of holiday, I'm left to the task, of keeping up appearances, of someone responsible, still home.  That's the traditional mode of crime 'deterrance'.
   Ironically, our driveway is devoid of parked cars and so I diligently keep lights on, and off,  with curtains moved open and closed,...in other words, a 'show' of occupation as I HOPE any potential burglers are COMPETENT enough to track this,  rather than noticing all the cars have left.  That's ironic, and kinda sad.

The other point to make, regarding outdoor and some indoor settings, for camera monitors, is that they need to operate at temperatures exceeding 110°. F.   That's if location somewhere like Sebastopol, California,  but many locales on the African continent as well.

[MK14]

Thanks.
I also, need to do more, to make things look occupied.  There are many possible steps to achieve this.  I thought I was doing enough, but clearly not.
Having my initial (somewhat temporary, relatively quickly assembled), CCTV system, will both let me record activities, potentially 24/7, but also have a look around, back and front, without needing to move away from my monitor/TV etc.
It could even be setup, to work via internet access.

The cameras I bought, should arrive soon.

Some people have said, that there can be lots of people, looking for opportunities, to take stuff etc.
So I need to be careful, and bolt down the hatches (make it considerably harder to get in, and take stuff, plus CCTV for evidence and other ways of it helping).

[Kasper]

A few notes from my limited experience with cameras:

Bird houses:
Protect from the elements and thieves.  As a bonus you might get videos of birds trying to enter.  Get or build one with easy access to change battery or plug in a battery bank.

Sheds etc:
I cut a hole in my shed and got good view of the driveway, at eye level.  Camera was obvious to intruders but hard to steal.

Point towards house:
I find cameras pointing towards the house are less likely to have false triggers from cars in street, pedestrians, tree branches, etc. And less likely to annoy neighbors.

RPi with battery:
Battery powered cameras are often off or in deep sleep until low power PIRs detect motion and wake them up.  My attempt at a basic RPi setup took way too long to boot.  You can write 'bare metal' code to speed it up, my best turned on and started recording in about 3 seconds.  Downside is extra complication, reading on forums about ancient languages and getting distracted reading arguments over whether it's real bare metal FW or not.

ESP32 with battery:
Probably easier than RPi.  So small and cheap, you can use lots and get them close to the subject: less false triggers, less replacement cost if they go missing and better chance of seeing a face.  Maybe even get video of them stealing your camera.

Motion detection:
Motion activated lights can work as 'remote triggers' for cameras.  Motion triggers light then light triggers camera.  Requires a camera that is triggered by light changes not just motion (PIR).  Or a networked motion sensor or other sensor could trigger the camera directly.

Deterants:
Shouldn't take much to get them to pick a different house.  Motion activated lights turn many around.  I think a noisey gravel yard helps too.  I've seen motion activated sprinkler though that seems tedious to enable/disable and may garner some agression once they dry off and return.

[MK14]

A few notes from my limited experience with cameras:

Bird houses:
Protect from the elements and thieves.  As a bonus you might get videos of birds trying to enter.  Get or build one with easy access to change battery or plug in a battery bank.

Sheds etc:
I cut a hole in my shed and got good view of the driveway, at eye level.  Camera was obvious to intruders but hard to steal.

Point towards house:
I find cameras pointing towards the house are less likely to have false triggers from cars in street, pedestrians, tree branches, etc. And less likely to annoy neighbors.

RPi with battery:
Battery powered cameras are often off or in deep sleep until low power PIRs detect motion and wake them up.  My attempt at a basic RPi setup took way too long to boot.  You can write 'bare metal' code to speed it up, my best turned on and started recording in about 3 seconds.  Downside is extra complication, reading on forums about ancient languages and getting distracted reading arguments over whether it's real bare metal FW or not.

ESP32 with battery:
Probably easier than RPi.  So small and cheap, you can use lots and get them close to the subject: less false triggers, less replacement cost if they go missing and better chance of seeing a face.  Maybe even get video of them stealing your camera.

Motion detection:
Motion activated lights can work as 'remote triggers' for cameras.  Motion triggers light then light triggers camera.  Requires a camera that is triggered by light changes not just motion (PIR).  Or a networked motion sensor or other sensor could trigger the camera directly.

Deterants:
Shouldn't take much to get them to pick a different house.  Motion activated lights turn many around.  I think a noisey gravel yard helps too.  I've seen motion activated sprinkler though that seems tedious to enable/disable and may garner some agression once they dry off and return.

From looking at other homes, in my immediate area.  I've noticed they have got much better physical security, than I have.  Better/more secure doors, and improvements, to make it much harder for intruders to get in, front and (ability to easily get to the) back.

I also suspect they have much better (outside) security lighting, than me.

I don't know the full story, as I can only see the front bits of their home, from the street.  E.g. Their CCTV/alarms and rear security, I don't know about, except in a tiny number of cases (a neighbor who told me, some details), and any rear details I can see from where I am.

As well as having whatever CCTV cameras I can sort out, looking out through window(s) and/or installed outside.  I like the ideas for having extra cameras, for any blind-spots, and to see the viewing, looking back on where you live.

The Birdhouse idea, is very interesting.  Because I had the idea of putting a camera ina similar spot.  But wasn't sure how to hide/disguise the camera.  That is an interesting, cheap and simple way of doing it.

Also, I could perhaps combine ESP32 (for motion detection) with built in cameras (they can be bought very cheaply, but I need to ensure I get the right ones, for best driver support, as I remember hearing, only some are easy to get working, otherwise, even if they cost a fair bit more).

I want to put up motion-detecting systems, outside.  So I can be notified, if intruders, are messing around at the front or rear.

So some kind of ESP32 (hence WiFi, but wired connection if necessary, for reliability), battery or wired to an outdoor wire, that goes back, discretely, to a (PSU) weather safe (perhaps indoor PSU), the wire goes through a hole/gap/similar, such as a no-longer used fan/vent or something.  With Passive-IR, Ultrasonic (distance sensor, pointing at something, if it gets interrupted by a person, the distance suddenly changes), or similar detection technologies.

My CCTV cameras have arrived, but I need to sort out some PoE switches or injectors, network connections (new), SD card(s), probably very high endurance and some bits and pieces, such as Ethernet cables, which are long enough, as necessary.

[Kasper]

If you want cheap and simple motion sensors, amazon has lots of options.  Base station in house that beeps when motion sensors, door sensors, etc are triggered.

For motion lights: the ones with solar panels work pretty well.  Despite the lousy reviews, I've had a few of these outside for about 4 years with no problems, aside from low battery after a branch in the wind triggers one over and over.  Put one in my shed too just as an automated light for myself.

I like pointing lights away from the house, partly to light up their face for the camera and partly to obstruct their view of me.

https://www.amazon.ca/Degree-Solar-Motion-Sensor-Light/dp/B01LT56KRQ

[MK14]

If you want cheap and simple motion sensors, amazon has lots of options.  Base station in house that beeps when motion sensors, door sensors, etc are triggered.

For motion lights: the ones with solar panels work pretty well.  Despite the lousy reviews, I've had a few of these outside for about 4 years with no problems, aside from low battery after a branch in the wind triggers one over and over.  Put one in my shed too just as an automated light for myself.

I like pointing lights away from the house, partly to light up their face for the camera and partly to obstruct their view of me.

https://www.amazon.ca/Degree-Solar-Motion-Sensor-Light/dp/B01LT56KRQ

Good idea. Not needing to be wired to the mains, as they are solar.  Saves, on the installation time and hassle.
As winter approaches, it will be getting darker and darker, much earlier in the day, perhaps very dark by 5:00 PM, for the UK, in the next few months.

Seeing the item you linked to.  Makes me wonder if one can do a BigCliveDotCom on that lamp.  Open the screws at the back, find the wire(s)/pad(s) that change when it triggers, because of a person detection.  Then connect that to an ESP32 or something.

I appreciate your idea, of detecting the sudden change in light, as that is another way, of doing it.

I think Amazon have got a sale on, later this month.

Prime Day is Amazon's annual deal event on July 16-17 exclusively for Prime members

In around a weeks time, so I need to create a shopping list, and then get sorted out.

I have heard, their modern day sales, are not really sales, and that the so called sale prices, are the same, you can get at various random points during the year, as the item price, 'jumps' about, erratically, sometimes almost daily or even more frequently.

Possibly to psychologically make people, feel compelled to buy stuff?

I'd much prefer it, if it was just like Digi-Key etc, where prices are fixed.  Then you can choose what to get or not and that is it.  No worrying about if you are getting the best (lowest) price or not, or feeling compelled to buy something now, in case you need it next week/month.

[Kasper]

Mine ran in the winter in Canada, for at least a few triggers per night, probably more.  It has 3 dials.  This product looks the same as the PIR that comes with that light.  It describes the dials
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B07GZLS9RW/

By tuning those dials, you can get some life out of it even in short and dim winter days.

To trigger a camera, you should be able to hack into the trigger wire coming out of the PIR or LED power wire.  I'd include some way to keep the camera on until its code turns it off gracefully so it doesn't lose power while writing to memory card and corrupt it.

[PlainName]

Just want to jump in here and note that cameras that start recording just after a trigger aren't much cop. Any serious security camera will save the 10 seconds or so prior to the trigger and then whatever comes after, which means it has to be running continuously (but not storing). And it also implies a reasonably sized circular buffer in memory.

[Kasper]

Do you know of any wireless cameras that do that?  I think battery life would be a real struggle.

[MK14]

Mine ran in the winter in Canada, for at least a few triggers per night, probably more.  It has 3 dials.  This product looks the same as the PIR that comes with that light.  It describes the dials
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B07GZLS9RW/

By tuning those dials, you can get some life out of it even in short and dim winter days.

To trigger a camera, you should be able to hack into the trigger wire coming out of the PIR or LED power wire.  I'd include some way to keep the camera on until its code turns it off gracefully so it doesn't lose power while writing to memory card and corrupt it.

The problem with these outdoor PIR sensors, in the UK (not unique to the UK), in my experience.  Is that they seem to work, just fine, at night, on dry and peaceful days (no wind).

But, in the sometimes very rainy (almost stormy, at times) UK, with much wind too (occasionally).  I see these security lights in the area, keep on turning off and on, throughout the night.

For now, I just wanted a very reliable signal to warn me, of outside intruders.  As I've had several occurrences, of (probably) young people, mess around, hang about, or carry out vandalism, or worse, where I live.

Looking round the immediate nearby area (I know I've already partly mentioned this), perhaps, half a dozen homes, in one direction.

They do seem to have taken, many security improvement steps.  Which is making me wonder, if a number of homes, have had similar experiences, to me.

Although I consider where I live to be perfectly reasonable or better.  Not that far away (not very far, if walking), are less desirable sections/areas.

So if times are very hard, and trouble is brewing, perhaps that is what I'm experiencing.

One somewhat local person I've talked about this to.  Has said (very approximately), they think there are people roaming about, looking for weaknesses anywhere.  Who will then strike, if they find such weaknesses.

[Kasper]

Trees and bushes the wind are a big pain for me.  I've had some luck by turning down the sensitity and placing cameras and motion sensors in locations where they were effective with limited range: gates and pathways.

Another discrete camera enclosure that is on my to do list is a fake rock.  I struggle to monitor my driveway without getting triggered by cars in the road.  Fake rock could sit near road and look into the driveway.

One of my favorite solutions is making friends with the neighbors and sharing phone numbers.  "Please call or text if you see someone other than my wife or I on our property."

[PlainName]

Do you know of any wireless cameras that do that?  I think battery life would be a real struggle.

Only dashcams. Might be some but since this is one reason why I would recommend a DVR I've never bothered to take a deep dive (it can be bad enough finding a camera to fit other requirements without this one too).

[Kasper]

Do you know of any wireless cameras that do that?  I think battery life would be a real struggle.

Only dashcams. Might be some but since this is one reason why I would recommend a DVR I've never bothered to take a deep dive (it can be bad enough finding a camera to fit other requirements without this one too).

That makes sense.  Dashcams: big batteries that get charged often.

[PlainName]

The problem with these outdoor PIR sensors, in the UK (not unique to the UK), in my experience.  Is that they seem to work, just fine, at night, on dry and peaceful days (no wind).

But, in the sometimes very rainy (almost stormy, at times) UK, with much wind too (occasionally).  I see these security lights in the area, keep on turning off and on, throughout the night.

Internally, you can get sensors that combine IR and radar - both have to trigger to generate an actual trigger. Don't know if you can get those as outside sensors.

An alternative may be to wire-AND a pair of external sensors in slightly different locations looking at the same target area.

[MK14]

Internally, you can get sensors that combine IR and radar - both have to trigger to generate an actual trigger. Don't know if you can get those as outside sensors.

An alternative may be to wire-AND a pair of external sensors in slightly different locations looking at the same target area.

That is exactly what I (may indeed) want and intend (probably) to do as a compromise, if it is not available, in a one piece solution (at affordable prices).

I.e.
Ideal solution is one sensor, but which works extremely reliably.

Next ideal, is a unit, with two different built in sensing techniques, for reliability.

Next best solution, is multiple (perhaps two), sensors, with differing sensing techniques, which I electrically combine, to only signal me, if they BOTH react, at similar times.

I'm also worried that cats, dogs and other animals, that sometimes wonder about.  Might give me false alerts.

Hence why I mentioned Ultrasonic, as that could be at say 0.75 metres high, which would hopefully avoid most smaller/medium animals, yet be low enough to pick up people, just fine.  I.e. An Ultrasonic distance module, is pointed at a wall/fence/similar, and will usually return a fixed distance, which dramatically reduces, when an intruder walks past the sensing point.

So, a cheap (Arduino like) Ultrasonic Distance module, perhaps only a couple of pounds or dollars or so, on AliExpress/Ebay/Amazon, in increasing price order, by supplier, usually.  Which a remote ESP32, could easily interface to (may need voltage level converters), sending alerts back, via WiFi.

[Muttley Snickers]

Internally, you can get sensors that combine IR and radar - both have to trigger to generate an actual trigger. Don't know if you can get those as outside sensors.

An alternative may be to wire-AND a pair of external sensors in slightly different locations looking at the same target area.

That is exactly what I (may indeed) want and intend (probably) to do as a compromise, if it is not available, in a one piece solution (at affordable prices).

I.e.
Ideal solution is one sensor, but which works extremely reliably.

Next ideal, is a unit, with two different built in sensing techniques, for reliability.

Next best solution, is multiple (perhaps two), sensors, with differing sensing techniques, which I electrically combine, to only signal me, if they BOTH react, at similar times.

I'm also worried that cats, dogs and other animals, that sometimes wonder about.  Might give me false alerts.

Hence why I mentioned Ultrasonic, as that could be at say 0.75 metres high, which would hopefully avoid most smaller/medium animals, yet be low enough to pick up people, just fine.  I.e. An Ultrasonic distance module, is pointed at a wall/fence/similar, and will usually return a fixed distance, which dramatically reduces, when an intruder walks past the sensing point.

So, a cheap (Arduino like) Ultrasonic Distance module, perhaps only a couple of pounds or dollars or so, on AliExpress/Ebay/Amazon, in increasing price order, by supplier, usually.  Which a remote ESP32, could easily interface to (may need voltage level converters), sending alerts back, via WiFi.

As we previously discussed, the best adivice is you really need to get away from the notion of creating a problematic and troublesome dogs breakfast, and for peace of mind focus on a reliable security solution. If you do require a reliable outdoor sensor for triggering either activity detection or for lighting then there are proper and tested solutions available such as the Bosch OD850 Series. Otherwise simply utilise the Motion/ Activity Detection function incorporated within the DVR/ NVR to trigger time-stamped events.   

[MK14]

As we previously discussed, the best adivice is you really need to get away from the notion of creating a problematic and troublesome dogs breakfast, and for peace of mind focus on a reliable security solution. If you do require a reliable outdoor sensor for triggering either activity detection or for lighting then there are proper and tested solutions available such as the Bosch OD850 Series. Otherwise simply utilise the Motion/ Activity Detection function incorporated within the DVR/ NVR to trigger time-stamped events.

I've got a much longer post, following this one, which explains things better.

That sounds really good, the Bosch OD850 Series.  I love that it uses two different sensing systems, to make it very reliable, that it covers a big area, if needed and the fact that it is a professional piece of gear.  But it does cost quite a bit, to buy it.  Which is fair enough, for a professional and quality piece of kit.