Cambridge vs Imperial

[FluxMOSFET]

Hi,
I'm comparing Cambridge and Imperial as universities to study undergrad electronics engineering at. I'm not quite sure yet which area of electronics engineering I want to go into, but I'm sure I want to do electronics engineering in some form or another. Since neither offer a straight EE course, I'm comparing MEng Engineering(H100) at cam, and MEng Electronics and information engineering(GH56) as Imperial.

Based on course content, which course do you think make make someone a better electronics engineer? Do you agree with the first 2 years being general engineering, or do you think those first 2 years are better spent on EIE content?

A lot of people hear the name Cambridge, and think that it will give you better access to the Jobs market. I'm sceptical about this. How much does the Cambridge name really matter? If it does matter, how does it compare to Imperial?

If anyone has been to either university, how was your experience? Would you recommend it?

Thanks in advance

[IanB]

I haven't been to either, but at a guess I would say Cambridge will give you a broader and more fundamental, theoretical education, whereas Imperial may be more industry-centric and vocational.

However, you get out of an education what you put into it and I am sure you would get a fine education at either place. Personally I would make the decision more on external factors, the broader picture of the institution and its facilities, how much will you enjoy studying there, living in that location, and so on. Really the precise details of a degree course will not make that much difference to your subsequent career as long as it is at a good institution. You will learn more than enough as long as you have the right level of enthusiasm and commitment.

Always keep in mind that a degree is merely a springboard to lifelong learning. By no means will you ever learn everything you need to know in four years of undergraduate study. You will be lucky if you learn 10% of it.

If it were me, I would think hard before passing up on Cambridge if I could get there. Maybe go to Imperial later for postgraduate study if that becomes of interest to you?

[tggzzz]

Both are good. Both will give you a good start in the jobs market.

Don't forget that you can't go to "Cambridge University", you go to one of the colleges - and the colleges have different biasses and strengths.

Be wary of specialising too soon - much knowledge and many techniques are common to all forms of engineering. Often it is the individuals that can relate deep understanding in one domain to something analogous in another domain - e.g. the causes and cures for resonance in mechanical structures and in electronic circuits.

Be wary of concentrating too much on practical aspects of whatever interests you. Why?

• Because you can usually pick up the practical knowledge and experience quickly and on your own and later in your career; it is far more difficult to do that with the theoretical knowledge.
• Because the theoretical knowledge will last a lifetime, whereas much practical knowledge has a half-life of a few years. I still, occasionally, refer to my university textbooks from 1975; I don't refer to datasheets from that time!

Beware people that (in one disguised form or another) denigrate either the theoretical or the practical - because both are necessary. Such people typically haven't succeeded (for whatever reason) at the theoretical, and therefore believe it is unnecessary; such "chips on the shoulder" are destructive to everybody. (Typical example statement: "I came across a graduate that didn't know what a dry solder joint looks like; they are useless".)

Get hold of a detailed syllabus for each course, and see if you think the topics are what you think will be useful in 10 years time. If you are capable of going to Cambridge, you ought to be capable of making a good stab at that!

[SingedFingers]

If it's any use, recent Cambridge grads who we've interviewed for entry into the financial services software sector seem to turn up with a sense of entitlement far beyond their immediate value. It's our job to give them vocational training after university and we know that but you don't go cruising into an interview with three engineering graduates with an additional 15-20 years' experience each in real world software engineering and start waving your wang around like a helicopter.

Imperial, better attitude. University of West London, best attitude, value and direction. Times are changing.

If I'm honest, now I would plan ten years ahead where you want to be and pick a university that will get you there by manifesto and course content, not a name. Think of all the roadkill on the way. I did EE and no less than 1 of the 15 people I still contact still do EE. Thanks China

[mrpackethead]

cambridge is such a nice place to live though.  And theres some wonderful coffee shops, great town, you will have to own a push bike and learn to punt ( from the cambridge end of course )..    Its a fantastic place and you can even get an education there.

REality is, the university will not make a good engineer if the person is not going to be a good engineer.  Its almost irelevent which you go to.

[KJDS]

Both places will give you the opportunity to learn sufficient to become a good engineer, but do you want to mess about in punts with girlies with posh accents or spend a few years living in one of the worlds greatest cities?

There are plenty of decent unis in the UK, I chose Bangor so I could go rock climbing whenever I wasn't stoned. Chose one that suits you.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Probably also a significant difference in what it costs to live within a sensible distance of either.

[Howardlong]

cambridge is such a nice place to live though.  And theres some wonderful coffee shops, great town, you will have to own a push bike and learn to punt ( from the cambridge end of course )..    Its a fantastic place and you can even get an education there.

I like to think that Imperial is a nice place to be: I live right by the main campus ;-)

Despite living there, I have only had dealings a couple of times directly with Imperial at an educational level in recent years, and I have the impression more and more that nowadays it's run both for and by accountants. Of course the big pull for Imperial is that you're in London, if that floats your boat. It will not be cheap to live nearby. It is however reasonably safe, if a bit overrun by tourists going to the museums next door.

The big pull of Cambridge is that many people (including me) consider it the top UK university. Again I've had little direct educational exposure to Cambridge other than working with some of the high altitude balloon guys who made the news a few years ago. These were clever guys, they wrote a GPS receiver from scratch to overcome the built in altitude/speed/acceleration limitations of off-the-shelf GPS devices. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1091896/Out-world-British-teddy-bears-strapped-helium-weather-balloon-reach-edge-space.html)

Either university will look seriously good on your CV.

[jc101]

Depending on the areas you are interested in, there are some amazing tech companies in and around Cambridge you could try and network with when studying.  Cambridge Uni is huge, you are offered a place by a College and the University does the teaching.  Some Colleges are more tech oriented than others.  It all gets complicated, I've do work for various bits of it and still don't understand exactly who does what!

I'm biased as I live in Cambridge, but it would be worth trying to work out how much a degree in either would cost in total, that difference alone could make a difference in the longer term.

[rstofer]

But one is Cambridge...

As an outsider I don't know anything about either University.  OTOH, Cambridge is recognized world wide as one of the very best universities.  Along the lines of MIT and Stanford.  I suspect there are as many differences as similarities but, it's Cambridge!

I have a couple of EE degrees (electronics) that I really got as a hobby;  I like computers at the hardware level.  They were fascinating back in the late '60s and '70s.  I made a good living as an electrical (not electronics) engineer and project manager.  I never worked a day in electronics.  Well, maybe a few days for pay but that's about it.  I started grad school in '75, right at the beginning of the microcomputer era.  Heady days!

Here's the thing:  I don't see a future for electronics engineers in the US and if we don't need them, nobody else does either.  Computer science, sure!  Software engineering, absolutely!  Electronics, not so much.

So, if you are going to school because of a deep interest in the subject, great!  Just don't expect a huge job market.

Note the Employment Change number (-100) for 2014-2024.  It's pretty grim.  We have all we need and we only need to cover the retirements.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htm

If you want to make money, consider Software Developer:

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm

Computer Hardware Engineer (my major) has something of a future but not as good as Software Developer:

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/computer-hardware-engineers.htm

All of this applies to the US.  I assume you have similar data available for the UK.

I would go to Cambridge even if they would only let me sweep the floors!  It's Cambridge!

[rstofer]

Both places will give you the opportunity to learn sufficient to become a good engineer, but do you want to mess about in punts with girlies with posh accents or spend a few years living in one of the worlds greatest cities?

There are plenty of decent unis in the UK, I chose Bangor so I could go rock climbing whenever I wasn't stoned. Chose one that suits you.

Can we get a show of hands on that?  Maybe run a poll?  I'm in for girls...  I can go touristing anytime.

[mrpackethead]

Either university will look seriously good on your CV.

Cambridge ( and arguably Oxford ) would look better for Numskull HR departs that do CV Filtering. 

NB. Cambridge is far superior to Oxford, just because.

[mrpackethead]

[MK14]

I say Cambridge.
Because it is a treasured degree for potentially getting (potentially the best) jobs (of your choice), meeting the right/good people, and arguably a significantly nicer place to live than London.

Disclaimer:
I don't want to go into details. But there are significant reasons why I may be biased to say that.

This link discusses it, and overall seems to go for Cambridge.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Imperial-College-London-better-than-Cambridge-for-engineering

[tggzzz]

This link discusses it, and overall seems to go for Cambridge.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Imperial-College-London-better-than-Cambridge-for-engineering

Amusing that it says "Another great school is University of Southampton which has been rated the best in the UK in Electronics." Southampton had the first UK electronics degree.

[MK14]

This link discusses it, and overall seems to go for Cambridge.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Imperial-College-London-better-than-Cambridge-for-engineering

Amusing that it says "Another great school is University of Southampton which has been rated the best in the UK in Electronics." Southampton had the first UK electronics degree.

"Best" can mean different things to different people. E.g. Cheapest, biggest, quickest, easiest, quality of degree, etc

Anyway, here is a source to back that up (the source can be disputed, of course):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_Electronics_and_Computer_Science,_University_of_Southampton

Electronics and Computer Science, generally abbreviated "ECS", at the University of Southampton

ECS is regarded by the IET as having the "biggest and strongest department in the country in Electrical and Electronic Engineering."[7]

[SingedFingers]

This link discusses it, and overall seems to go for Cambridge.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Imperial-College-London-better-than-Cambridge-for-engineering

Amusing that it says "Another great school is University of Southampton which has been rated the best in the UK in Electronics." Southampton had the first UK electronics degree.

That'll be the defence and heavy engineering influence down there.

[Howardlong]

Either university will look seriously good on your CV.

Cambridge ( and arguably Oxford ) would look better for Numskull HR departs that do CV Filtering. 

The evidence I've encountered of these bottom feeders strongly suggests you're probably right!

I've always wondered what posesses people to go into HR in the first place, it's Millwall* of vocations.

* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_one_likes_us,_we_don't_care

[tggzzz]

I've always wondered what posesses people to go into HR in the first place, it's Millwall* of vocations.

Good HR people are very valuable to an organisation and its employees.

Too often people end up in HR because it is their least-bad option and they "like people". Both of those are poor reasons, of course.

[SingedFingers]

This is why we don't have an HR department

[AndyC_772]

I went to Cambridge. (Disclaimer: I graduated about 20 years ago, some things may have changed!)

Both universities are highly regarded. If you're just concerned about how they'll look on your CV, both will get you through the door to an interview, and the rest is up to you.

The focus of your academic life in Cambridge would be the Engineering department itself, not your college. From that point of view, it really doesn't matter much which college you apply to, though do check where your choices are on a map, as some are more conveniently located than others.

Cambridge is a fantastic place to live, work, and relax. Imperial is in London.

I was initially very sceptical about the format of the course, which was 2 years' worth of general engineering (mechanical, electrical/electronic, civil engineering, thermodynamics) followed by a further two years EIST (Electrical and Information Sciences Tripos). I knew I wanted to do electronics, so sitting through lectures on materials science, fluid flow and structural mechanics was a painful trial. It also means I'm now much, much better equipped to design systems in which those things are important, along with the electronics. (I believe they now do offer Electrical and Electronic Engineering specifically, which would have been my choice had it been available at the time).

Make no mistake, the Cambridge course is (or at least, was) intensely theoretical. In every area, you'll spend the first half a lecture being introduced to a subject, and the rest of the course analysing it mathematically. I really hope you're fond of calculus.

When you graduate, you'll still have to put up with idiots who say "I knew a graduate from <wherever> who couldn't even do <insert practical task that takes 5 minutes to learn here>", and you'll still have to work your way up the chain from the bottom. The real benefit of the degree is that you're climbing the right chain, not the short one that starts and ends on the workshop floor.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,
I was fortunate enough to graduate from Imperial College in the early 80's, so I can speak about my own experience.

At the time 'thick sandwich' course were popular. I worked a whole year before attending the university and also worked during the summer vacations. The company I worked for gave me a scholarship of a 1000 pounds a year (probably 3-5k today). Most of the students were on similar schemes. The education that I got during these work terms has been very valuable.

My degree is Electrical Engineering, which is very different than Electronics. The subjects were things like, 'Motors and Drives', 'Heavy Electrical' (Power Distribution), 'Machines', "Power Electronics' and 'Control Theory'. At the time it was not possible to study 'Electronics' at Imperial. Southampton was the place to go for Electronics.

I had some very good lecturers, Eric Laithwaite (famous for making the  linear induction motor practical and MagLev) taught me 'Machines'. Eric was a great lecturer.
Barry Williams taught me 'Power Electronics' and Hugh Bolton taught me small machines. The others have faded away 

At the time we learned Motorola MC6800 and TMS9914 assembly languages. We were taught Fortran 77.

I think the most important thing we were taught, was how solve problems that we hadn't seen before.

It was a three year degree. The first year was in a hall of residence in Princes Gate. The second year I lived in Parsons Green in a terrace house. The third year was spent in Hamlet Gardens, Ravenscourt Park.

Eight of shared the accommodation in Hamlet Gardens. The statistics are:

2 Chemical Eng. One become a consultant oncologist, the other is practising chemical engineering.

5 Mechanical Eng. - One joined an Accounting firm (immigrated to the Far East)


One got his MBA from London Business School and is the MD of a large company in the middle east.

One also got his MBA from the LBS and was engaged in merges and acquisitions in the city of London.

One has been practising production engineering and managing assembly lines in the USA.

The other one is working as a mechanical engineer in Germany (sound and vibration automobiles)

I immigrated to Canada. I worked as design engineer and system architect, for 25 years, before switching to a technical sales role.

This small sample is very typical.

I haven't experienced any difficulty with Imperial not being recognized by HR departments. I will sometimes put a link to the University rankings 

You have to some research. You have to decide what you want to do when you graduate and what you want to be doing 5 years after that. You then want to talk to people in those positions.

You also want to research the people who are going to teach you. The buildings have very little knowledge, you are going to learn from a few individuals. You need to know what they are interested in.

There is one thing I can remember very clearly. In the first year I got average marks, and I went to meet my second year tutor, he said "If you keep going at the same pace, you will graduate and you can get a job. If you want to do a postgraduate degree you will have to do better. Do you want to talk about your marks or do you want to talk about what you did during your last work term?". That was my kind of professor.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Howardlong]

The first year was in a hall of residence in Princes Gate.

I wonder what number? I lived at 72 Princes Gate for 12 years from 1999 to 2011, directly opposite the Science Museum. I am aware that in the early 80s the block (a big white stucco townhouse originally built about 1850) was student residences for a time before being turned into flats when I lived there.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

The first year was in a hall of residence in Princes Gate.

I wonder what number? I lived at 72 Princes Gate for 12 years from 1999 to 2011, directly opposite the Science Museum. I am aware that in the early 80s the block (a big white stucco townhouse originally built about 1850) was student residences for a time before being turned into flats when I lived there.

Sorry, small mistake, it should be Princes Gardens. Until recently 10,11 and 12 Princes Gardens was Garden Hall.

Here is the map:



And here is a photograph of the building. I stayed in the room marked in red. The room was very large, shared by three students. It could not be subdivided because it had a 'listed ceiling'.




I think I paid between 9 and 11 pounds a week.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[tggzzz]

When you graduate, you'll still have to put up with idiots who say "I knew a graduate from <wherever> who couldn't even do <insert practical task that takes 5 minutes to learn here>", and you'll still have to work your way up the chain from the bottom. The real benefit of the degree is that you're climbing the right chain, not the short one that starts and ends on the workshop floor.

Yes indeed.

It is a mildly interesting question as to why people have that "I knew a graduate..." misapprehension.

I've found a useful way of "explaining" their misapprehensions is the "both doctors and nurses are necessary, vive la difference" argument. If they persist, I note that when I need a needle inserted into a vein, a nurse is probably better at it than a doctor - but when I want an internal pain diagnosed and treatment chosen, I want a doctor to do it. Some continue to persist and/or cannot see the point, sigh.