Calling all PC experts - I have a weird keyboard issue

[xrunner]

I'm stumped. Really stumped.

I ordered a new small footprint keyboard from Hong Kong over Ebay last week. I'm going to use it for my ham radio hobby desk PC. It arrived today and it looked nice. I plugged it into a front USB port on the PC and tested it. It worked just fine. It's the right size and the keys have a nice feel. I thought all would end well. It didn't.

Here's the item -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261053848553?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648

So I then unplugged it and plugged it into a USB port on the back of the PC - one that is directly connected to the MoBo. It didn't work, at least not reliably. On bootup I couldn't get into the bios by hitting Del because it reported no KB found. Sometimes even after Windoze finished booting I could not enter my password. I tried all four rear ports and it acts the same way. It doesn't work correctly.

When I use one of the two front ports, which are connected by wires to other MoBo USB port pins, it works OK.

I do not understand this. There is nothing in the bios that differentiates the rear ports from the front ports. Also, the other devices using the rear USB ports, such as a SDR dongle, do not exhibit any issues whatsoever. I have never encountered an issue like this before.

Any ideas?

[mmagin]

Poor mechanical tolerances in the plug?

[marshallh]

Could be power filtering. I wouldn't be surprised if they only populated 1 or 2 out of the 10-20 needed bypass caps in the keyboard pcb.
Might want to open it up and add some.

[fluxcapacitor]

hi,what sort of case do you have ? ,if its an older one it could have usb 1.1 ports even though you connect them to a usb 2 header.Also check your bios for legacy usb support and usb keyboard support.

[xrunner]

Poor mechanical tolerances in the plug?

Possibly ...

The front ports might grip the KB connector better. Yet I can't recall this ever being an issue in many years of PC use/hobby.

Could be power filtering. I wouldn't be surprised if they only populated 1 or 2 out of the 10-20 needed bypass caps in the keyboard pcb.
Might want to open it up and add some.

Again - possibly. Like you said I'd have to open it up.

hi,what sort of case do you have ? ,if its an older one ...

It is a bit older.

it could have usb 1.1 ports even though you connect them to a usb 2 header.Also check your bios for legacy usb support and usb keyboard support.

I doubt it has 1.1 ports. I'll check the MoBo manual, I suppose it's about time. But it's a KB - I wouldn't think speed would have an issue at all. I suppose I can just leave the thing plugged into the front port, but I hate not understanding these types of problems. 

[ablacon64]

Some days ago I faced the same problem and bios setup had 3 configuration options:
1 - Optimized defaults for SATA (AHCI)
2 - Optimized defaults for IDE
3 - Bios defaults

Did not know what the third option meant but it was the only that worked. The board was an asrock with soldered Atom cpu. I stopped trying to understand the problem. 

Post motherboard brand and model.

[dfmischler]

Is there an option on the motherboard for providing USB power?  I have a couple of boards that have more than one jumper for USB power or not on different groups of ports (e.g. jumper USBPW1-4 controls power on ports 1-4 on the back panel on an ASUS M5A78L-M LX).

[AlfBaz]

LOL... this thread reminds me of an episode of futurama "wiggle the cord, ctrl alt delete, turn it on and off..."
and to that end, try plugging the dongle into the same rear port but this time on the end of a cable and place it closer to the keyboard (I'm looking at your "at least not reliably" remark), transceiver might be poor quality

[xrunner]

Thanks for all the additional replies. I'll keep at it. I mean it's a f*cking KB right? What's with it not just - working out of the box? 

[AlfBaz]

What's with it not just - working out of the box? 

Have you tried using it in the box? 

[xrunner]

What's with it not just - working out of the box? 

Have you tried using it in the box? 

Good one. 

[pickle9000]

Make sure your connectors are clean. A short 6 inch usb extension can sometimes help. Pop the back off the keyboard and see if they used tape instead of solder (check for unpopulated caps). If you happen to have a usb to ps2 adapter and your comp accepts ps2 then try that.   

[westfw]

10-20 needed bypass caps in the keyboard pcb.

Are you kidding?  I keyboard is usually a single-chip 8051-class (slow) wonder.  Why would it possibly need 10 to 20 bypass caps.

Are  you sure the port you're plugging it into is good?  I've seen individual USB ports go bad in both electrical and mechanical ways.  (also: dirty or corroded contacts?)

[Psi]

You need to enable "USB keyboard support"/"USB legacy support" in the bios before a usb keyboard will work for chancing bios stuff.

Also, when you move a device between different USB ports it can take windows a while to figure out what you've done.

If you change the USB port then boot up windows (and the device doesn't work) it usually just needs to be unplugged for a few sec and then put back in.
Sometimes it can take a while to detect because windows is busy loading and doesn't have time for new hardware.
Once its been detected on that port it should work fine in the future for entering login details.

Also i've seen motherboards with dead usb ports, so might pay to check with a usb flash drive or something just so you know the port is good.

[edavid]

I have encountered plenty of weirdness with USB keyboards, especially having them not work in the BIOS.  Usually they do work with Windows though.

You might try connecting it to a rear port via a USB hub.

[mmagin]

If for any reason you find yourself wanting to spend more on a small-footprint keyboard, I can highly recommend these:
http://www.pfusystems.com/embedded-keyboard/hhkb/index.html

They seem to be up to about $100 now, but they're good quality.  I've used two of them for 6 or 7 years (one at home, one at work.)

[Psi]

Or get this one for US$1090
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/popularis/

[fluxcapacitor]

if you change the keyboard setting in bios to USB keyboard support unplug your old one.Is your old keyboard USB or PS2 (green = mouse purple = keyboard) ? ,if its PS2 then you might not be able to use the usb keyboard to get into the bios again, you would have to plug the old PS2 keyboard in, or buy a usb to ps2 connector :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-FEMALE-TO-PS2-MALE-Adapter-Converter-keyboard-MOUSE-/170542764941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b524138d

[rexxar]

Hm, maybe the ports on the back of your computer go directly to the chipset, and the ones on the front are on a hub? Though, I'm not sure what difference that would make. I agree with everyone else, you should take a peek inside 

[dr_p]

So I then unplugged it and plugged it into a USB port on the back of the PC - one that is directly connected to the MoBo. It didn't work, at least not reliably. On bootup I couldn't get into the bios by hitting Del because it reported no KB found. Sometimes even after Windoze finished booting I could not enter my password. I tried all four rear ports and it acts the same way. It doesn't work correctly.

but does it work ok in rear ports if you plug it in AFTER logon? like while windows is running.

[xrunner]

but does it work ok in rear ports if you plug it in AFTER logon? like while windows is running.

Sometimes.

I said in the OP that I tried all the rear ports that are directly attached to the MoBo. It still acts weird but other devices such as my SDR dongle and wireless mouse transceiver work perfectly. Yea I can look inside (I built the PC myself) but it's not going to tell me anything really. All the manual says it that the MoBo has additional 4 pin ports you can attach more USB devices to and it shows where they are on the board. I used two of them to run to the front ports on the case.

There is nothing in the manual or bios that differentiates any of the ports from one another. I'll keep playing with it but it's a pain in the ass to keep changing to different ports, rebooting, and seeing what happens. At some point I'll just have to say "It is what it is" and just use a front port and go on with life.

[fluxcapacitor]

Is your old keyboard a PS2 or USB and what model/part number is the motherboard .

[xrunner]

Is your old keyboard a PS2 or USB and what model/part number is the motherboard .

I found the problem. The KB USB connector has some internal flaw. If I push or pull the cable near the end the right way it disconnects from the computer, and I can get it to re-connect if I again push it a certain way. Somehow it must hang the right way when connected to the front ports.

Now the question is do I cut off a connector from a spare cable and try to fix it myself, or send it back to Hong Kong? I sent the seller a message that it has a flaw, let's see what he says abut it.

I could also just cut off the plastic shell and take a look at how the wires are connected to the USB plug. Might make a good pic for the thread. I'm pretty sure a wire is just not crimped or soldered correctly. I'm game if you think I should ... 

[dfmischler]

You should.  Beats sending it back, waiting weeks, and getting another one, maybe with the same problem.

[ablacon64]

Now the question is do I cut off a connector from a spare cable and try to fix it myself, or send it back to Hong Kong? I sent the seller a message that it has a flaw, let's see what he says abut it.

I had a problem with a diagnal cutter bought from China, the seller sent me a new one and told me I could get rid of the defective one, no need to send back. If the seller asks you to return, then I think it's better to fix it yourself.