Calculator recommendation?

[Bored@Work]

So, its not the calculators fault, but the dicking around of the students.. well, we are closing in on the problem here.   

Well, you know something is going wrong if you find words to the effect

"allows students to deal with some advanced concepts when they still haven't mastered some basics"

in a teacher's paper in support of the introduction of graphic calculators in a school. That sounded awfully like it was all about giving them something to dick around to keep them quiet, not to teach them math. Fortunately my kids weren't attending that school.

[c4757p]

So the students have to learn to use calculators after they have graduated,and are ready to start to work?

No, using the calculator is a separate lesson. You teach them how to use it, but that doesn't mean you allow them to use it during unrelated lessons to solve their algebra. When I was learning to drive, my mother did tell me how to use the cruise control, but no, I was not allowed to use it until I could keep steady speed with just my foot.

[nctnico]

In many places studying has become acquiring enough points for the diploma. What makes it worse is that in many countries schools and universities are paid by the number of diplomas they 'produce'. This has lead to a rapid decline in the quality of people's education. I've come across people who couldn't do anything they should be able to do according to their diploma!

[c4757p]

So, this is starting to be rather funny, the students are gone learn to use the calculator,in one  separate lesson, and math in another lesson, diveded but not togheter!  Thats sounds like a school system i think you better keep for your pupils, here in europe we do itquite diffrent.

Why exactly do you think that is a bad thing? It's just a damn calculator, it's not like it takes years of study to learn. Separation of tools and concepts is common - they don't teach you how to type in computer science classes.

And to be honest, I don't think the sort of people who can't figure out how to use a calculator on their own are often going to be finding themselves in careers where they need one.

But back to topic, as engineer, finished outof school,  the TI Nspire is  my best choice of tool to what i do!!

And you're free to do that, but it doesn't affect my judgment of its usefulness. The most useless thing will of course still have many people who want it.

[MasterOfNone]

I purchased a TI-NSPIRE CX CAS calculator about 2 years ago, along with a white board, and I love it. But while I think it’s a great calculator, I don’t think it’s a good programmers calculator. Yes you can enter hex and binary numbers directly and use all the standard logical operates, but displaying the result as a non-decimal number takes too many key strokes for my liking. 

There’s loads of arguments For and Against using calculator in schools and I don‘t want to go into them.

For me it’s about relearning some of the maths I’ve forgotten.  But the calculator doesn’t teach me maths, and it doesn’t’ even show me steps I need to perform to solve a problem. But when I am trying to relearn something it does allow me to check if I got it right, or that I’m heading in the right direction. Yes there is a learning curve (its even got a ‘For Dummies Book”), but if you want you use it like a normal calculator and not explore the advance features then yes it’s pretty simple to use.

So for my purpose it’s not a bad choice because in my opinion things like Excel and GNU Octave are great with numbers, but not so good if you’re trying to relearn a maths concept and you have no interest in a numerical result. I have also purchased the new IPAD NSPIRE CAS App but haven’t really played with it yet, but I do like the larger easier to read screen. 
I like the Nspire as training aid but I wouldn’t go and try to convince any of the Matlab guys at work that it’s a great engineering tool, but then again that’s not the market it’s aimed at, however that doesn’t mean it’s not useful for some engineering tasks.

[nctnico]

If you need a brush-up on math or look something up I can recommend the books 'Modern engineering mathematics' and 'Advanced modern engineering mathematics'. I agree its easy to get some insight in plotting the graphs one way or another.

[John Coloccia]

The usefulness of graphing calculators isn't plotting functions because you don't know that e^x will be some sort of exponential curve.  You program in various functions that you use all the time and maybe compare them to each other in real time.  So for example, I go down to the manufacturing floor to figure out why some axis on a mechanism is oscillating.  Look at the parameters...look at the response...look at the filters.  Oh look, there's a resonance at 25HZ.  Hmm...let's tweak the filters....I need to see some good response at 30Hz...what if I tweak this and tweak that...what does it look like?

Yes, you can just open your notebook and start plugging and chugging, or you can whip open your spreadsheet on the laptop...or go back up to your desk.  Or you can just grab the calculator from your pocket, tweak a couple of parameters and get on with it.  It has it's uses.

[MasterOfNone]

If you need a brush-up on math or look something up I can recommend the books 'Modern engineering mathematics' and 'Advanced modern engineering mathematics'. I agree its easy to get some insight in plotting the graphs one way or another.

Thanks for the book suggestion, those books look really good from the snippets you get on Amazon. But the truth is I don’t really need any more books because I already have a few. I only mentioned the calculator in this thread because I find some of the features useful like the ability to do symbolic maths.

With the TI, Nspire, with its sensor innput, i can se excatly whats going on (electroacoustic/filter) and actualy grab (with the mouse on the screen of the TI) and correct the curve while observing the respons on the circuit live and correct both.  With a PC i would need more time,  equipment and on special drawback for me, carry a lot more gear. Im paraplegic and in a wheelchair.
If there is another and better calculator for that, i willing to try.

But i do se the point that the TI nspire is way to advanced for som here on the forum,  they need simpler things for they use.

Sorry you lost me on that one. Are you saying you use the Vernier input sensors for real engineering work, I’ve never tried any of those probes, are they accurate enough or do you also use a backup measurement device?

You seem to be suggesting that to can the grab curve and the results change. But when I read your post to me it sounds like you are saying the behaviour of the circuit also changes, without you manually re-entering the values into the circuit. I can see how you can change the equations/parameters on calculator by grabbing the curve, but I can’t understand how it could change the circuit behaviour. What I’m having a problem understanding is how the calculator can output a signal that can change the circuit behaviour. Did I misunderstand you? do you have to manually enter the values back into your circuit?

[Pippy]

It's strange how they class 10 year old calculators as being 'vintage' lol

I still use my 'vintage' Casio FX-361 because it's clear and easy and has dec, oct & hex, I just wish it had 10 digit resolution rather than 8.
I also have a nice looking Casio FX-85WA, even though it never needs batteries replacing (which is nice) I really don't like this S-V.P.A.M method.

The Casio FX-61F looks perfect, wish I had one.

[MasterOfNone]

Yes, its a lot of fun in that calculator, its a calcultor that got more posebileties than any other.
 It may very well not be the choice for evrybody, but for me its been both fun and practical. And im not,as fanboys other placeces in this tread,calling other calculators  useless. Its just the right tool for me.
I got a bunch of calculators that i use., all for diffrent use.

It got :
Analog and TTL output for controlling electrical devices, such as DC motors, fans, LEDs, etc..

Technical Specifications

Maximum sampling rate: 50,000 readings per second
Resolution: 12-bit A/D conversion
Internal memory: Stores up to 12,000 data points
Input/Output lines: 8 TTL (4 on each DIG/SONIC port)
Analog output: 1 channel, ± 3 volts, 100 mA (with function generator)



 http://www.vernier.com/products/interfaces/labpro/

Technical programing manual

http://www2.vernier.com/labpro/labpro_tech_manual.pdf

Sorry I’m only posting here (again) because I don’t want someone to read this thread and purchase something that isn’t capable of doing what they believe it can do, because they read this thread.
So can you clarify that you use the monochrome version of the TI-Nspire with the LabPro at work, since TI-Nspire CX as mentioned in this thread isn’t compatible with the LabPro. The new TI-Nspires CX range are only compatible with the Lab-Cradle which has better specs but no output.  That’s why I was confused when you said you could control your circuit from the calculator.

Having looked into this a little now, I believe you need to basically change the Monochrome Nspire into a TI-84 with the keyboard accessory for the LabPro to work.

[c4757p]

A calculator and slide rule combo?? OK, that is awesome. Too bad they couldn't think of a way to really integrate the two (neither can I!)

[John Coloccia]

I was sold the instant I saw it had Quadrat-Taste AND Modernes Skalenbild.