Boeing Starliner upcoming launch, first w/crew

[tom66]

couldnt they put one of those paper/plastic tabs over the battery connections and pull it off just before  they light the blue torchpaper

Meanwhile in the Boeing development labs...

[Sal Ammoniac]

And they're off! Right on time. They're reached orbit.

[PA0PBZ]

And they're off! Right on time.

Ignoring the 7 years delay, yes they are 

[Sal Ammoniac]

And they're off! Right on time.

Ignoring the 7 years delay, yes they are 

Remind me when the Netherlands plans to launch something... 

[AVGresponding]

And they're off! Right on time.

Ignoring the 7 years delay, yes they are 

Remind me when the Netherlands plans to launch something... 

Typical septic, never heard of ESA...

[tszaboo]

And they're off! Right on time.

Ignoring the 7 years delay, yes they are 

Remind me when the Netherlands plans to launch something... 

The Ariane 5 had 114 successful launches, 2 failures and 1 partial failure.
Ariane 6 is scheduled to be launched next month.
Netherlands has been a member of ESA for the past 45 years.

[Sal Ammoniac]

The Ariane 5 had 114 successful launches, 2 failures and 1 partial failure.

How many of those had crews on board?

[soldar]

I find pissing matches rather childish. I feel humanity would do well to collaborate and make space exploration a joint project and all feel proud of what we can do together.

But if we are going to make a pissing contest out of this then I would point out that both Russia and China are pissing rather well.

[Sal Ammoniac]

I find pissing matches rather childish. I feel humanity would do well to collaborate and make space exploration a joint project and all feel proud of what we can do

I agree.

I'm not one usually to defend Boeing, but they did accomplish what few others have done, even if it took them years longer than anticipated. And in case anyone has forgotten, Boeing does have a long history in spaceflight--they built the S-1C first stage of the Saturn V that took us to the moon fifty years ago.

[themadhippy]

Boeing does have a long history in spaceflight--they built the S-1C first stage of the Saturn V that took us to the moon fifty years ago.

Only by using the brains from the first  "european" space agency

[Sal Ammoniac]

Boeing does have a long history in spaceflight--they built the S-1C first stage of the Saturn V that took us to the moon fifty years ago.

Only by using the brains from the first  "europeanNazi" space agency

Fixed that for you. And that's why we beat the Russians to the moon--our Germans were better than their Germans. 

[nctnico]

Boeing does have a long history in spaceflight--they built the S-1C first stage of the Saturn V that took us to the moon fifty years ago.

Only by using the brains from the first  "europeanNazi" space agency

Fixed that for you. And that's why we beat the Russians to the moon--our Germans were better than their Germans. 

Yep. A couple of weeks ago I've took a good look at the V2 rocket displayed at the Science museum in London. If you can overlook the fact it is a weapon which took a horrific amount of human suffering to create it for a second, you have to conclude it is a mighty complex piece of machinery and certainly a big achievement from a technical point of view.

[tszaboo]

Boeing does have a long history in spaceflight--they built the S-1C first stage of the Saturn V that took us to the moon fifty years ago.

Only by using the brains from the first  "european" space agency

Sick burn. 

[Sal Ammoniac]

Boeing does have a long history in spaceflight--they built the S-1C first stage of the Saturn V that took us to the moon fifty years ago.

Only by using the brains from the first  "european" space agency

Sick burn. 

Oh, I almost forgot. Lots of rockets have indeed been launched from the Netherlands. Most of them aimed at London or Antwerp.

[soldar]

our Germans were better than their Germans. 

If you look at the timeline the Soviets had many firsts.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/space-race-timeline

[Sal Ammoniac]

our Germans were better than their Germans. 

If you look at the timeline the Soviets had many firsts.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/space-race-timeline

Oh, absolutely. The first satellite in orbit, the first living thing in orbit, the first manned flight, the first spacewalk, and a number of others. The U.S. was playing catch-up for years until we finally overtook the Russians. We got off to a slow start, but caught up quickly, and then squandered it after the early 70s.

[soldar]

Oh, I almost forgot. Lots of rockets have indeed been launched from the Netherlands. Most of them aimed at London or Antwerp.

Von Braun wrote his autobiography, titled "I  aim at the stars ... but sometimes I hit London".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Aim_at_the_Stars

English historian Mark Felton appears to be displeased with the USA using and honoring Nazi war criminals
NASA's Nazi Memorials - Honouring War Criminals 2024

In 2024, several Nazi war criminals that were brought to America under Operation Paperclip in 1945 to work on the US ballistic missile and space programmes, are widely honoured. These men were responsible for tens of thousands of deaths, mostly of slave labourers forced to build Nazi rockets, and were also active Nazi Party members and SS officers. It is an interesting moral problem for NASA, other space organisations and the American public to wrestle with - should such men, that got America to the Moon in 1969 still be accorded such honours?

[Gyro]

our Germans were better than their Germans. 

If you look at the timeline the Soviets had many firsts.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/space-race-timeline

Oh, absolutely. The first satellite in orbit, the first living thing in orbit, the first manned flight, the first spacewalk, and a number of others. The U.S. was playing catch-up for years until we finally overtook the Russians. We got off to a slow start, but caught up quickly, and then squandered it after the early 70s.

I suspect that it was the death of Sergei Korolev, aka The Chief Designer, in 1966, that put back the Soviet space program and allowed the US to catch up and overtake. The first moon landing might have been very different otherwise.

[Sal Ammoniac]

In 2024, several Nazi war criminals that were brought to America under Operation Paperclip in 1945 to work on the US ballistic missile and space programmes, are widely honoured. These men were responsible for tens of thousands of deaths, mostly of slave labourers forced to build Nazi rockets, and were also active Nazi Party members and SS officers. It is an interesting moral problem for NASA, other space organisations and the American public to wrestle with - should such men, that got America to the Moon in 1969 still be accorded such honours?

I disagree with this. I think we should have taken the V-2 parts and documentation and left the personnel in Germany. The Nazi stain has tainted our space program, unfortunately.

I think one of the primary reasons we brought them here was to keep them out of the hands of the Russians.

[Sal Ammoniac]

I suspect that it was the death of Sergei Korolev, aka The Chief Designer, in 1966, that put back the Soviet space program and allowed the US to catch up and overtake. The first moon landing might have been very different otherwise.

The series For all Mankind on Apple TV+ offers an alternate history perspective on this--the Russians are the first to land on the moon.

[Gyro]

I think one of the primary reasons we brought them here was to keep them out of the hands of the Russians.

As I understand it, it was Von Braun (and his key team) who took the decision to head for the US lines as they thought they would get better treatment (a better deal?) than they would from the Russians. Clearly the temptation to take them [Edit: spirit them away to the US was too great, regardless of the ethics and the normal approach of taking them prisoner to face war crimes trials.]

[nctnico]

In 2024, several Nazi war criminals that were brought to America under Operation Paperclip in 1945 to work on the US ballistic missile and space programmes, are widely honoured. These men were responsible for tens of thousands of deaths, mostly of slave labourers forced to build Nazi rockets, and were also active Nazi Party members and SS officers. It is an interesting moral problem for NASA, other space organisations and the American public to wrestle with - should such men, that got America to the Moon in 1969 still be accorded such honours?

I disagree with this. I think we should have taken the V-2 parts and documentation and left the personnel in Germany. The Nazi stain has tainted our space program, unfortunately.

I think one of the primary reasons we brought them here was to keep them out of the hands of the Russians.

Well, there are lots of other areas where war criminals escaped justice. The German and Japanese 'doctors' performing medical experiments on people for example. Except for the mad scientist kind, they all got cosy, sometimes even high ranking, jobs at pharmaceutical companies. It is truly sickening.

The problem is though that formulas and technical drawings are not enough to recreate something. You need the people as well. Recently I watched a documentary about the French / British Concorde airplane. The Concorde had special, super efficient engines which allowed the Concorde to have a useable range. The Russians had all the drawings for this engine  but where unable to re-create it due to the lack of knowledge and understanding.

[soldar]

The problem is though that formulas and technical drawings are not enough to recreate something. You need the people as well. Recently I watched a documentary about the French / British Concorde airplane. The Concorde had special, super efficient engines which allowed the Concorde to have a useable range. The Russians had all the drawings for this engine  but where unable to re-create it due to the lack of knowledge and understanding.

Not only individuals but teams. A team works as a unit with shared knowledge and know-how. Losing a large part of a team is a very big setback.

That is why a country cannot just copy a design. It needs years of building a team and know how.

[AlbertL]

Not out of the woods yet - two new helium leaks: https://x.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1798528269416911143

[coppice]

The problem is though that formulas and technical drawings are not enough to recreate something. You need the people as well.

For a lot of engineering, what you need most is the knowledge the key material suppliers. That never really documents well. A drawing for the blades in a modern gas turbine are nothing, but the technology to make the high temperature tolerant mono-crystalline material they are made from is a big deal.