Author Topic: Bloody Windows 10 dammit  (Read 18430 times)

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Offline slicendice

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2017, 06:45:02 pm »
What is defined in Group Policy wont be deleted or changed unless that feature is marked obsolete.
 

Offline tronde

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2017, 06:51:29 pm »
It's simple really...

If you don't like it, then don't use it. Nowhere is it stated that you must use Windows or any Microsoft products.

Every OS today has their PROS and CONS, that is a fact. If you can't overcome the CONS then stop using that OS. If none of the OS satisfy you, then hire someone to write you the OS of your dreams.

Personally I rather use what MS has created and with a little bit of effort, make the experience my own.

Today Windows must be considered a critical part of any developed country's infra structure. That is a very good reason to have Microsoft behave themselves a little bit.

Regarding the telemetry you find so fantastic:
Why is it disabled in the educational version of W10, and optional in enterprise? Why are the users of those two versions exempt fom telemetry? Why can't users of the professional version disable it?

It does not help or solve the problem for most businesses that enterprise can disable telemetry, because the vast number of businesses are too small to be alloved to buy enterprise. Microsoft tell people to trust them, but we have no way to know what they collect. We only know that something is sent over, and that is a real problem for all kind of businesses which have to follow stringent regulations regarding information security.
 
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Offline hans

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2017, 07:13:54 pm »
Windows 10 has some great improvements over 7. The new task manager looks great. There are some great changes under the hood to make it faster than 7. If Windows 10 runs bad on your machine with all "options" turned off, then I'm sure Windows 7 runs crap as well. Get a SSD and a decent amount of RAM. An i3 processor should be quick enough for basic computing and even moderate productivity.

The thing is.. although Windows 10 has some great things, it also has many (unnecessary) features that really throw tech-savvy people off:

- Telemetry programs are opt out instead of opt in. Even though you opted out, some update comes along and it opts in again.
Also you will never have a clue what they send to MS. Have you ever looked up the size of Windows? Cited sources say Windows XP to 10 average around 40-60 million lines of code. Say that it only takes 1000 lines to write an excellent backdoor, that's a minuscule portion. Also when it's completely hidden and buried, away from any interaction, it probably makes it really hard to track down where it resides. Then have it obscured by the pillars and foundations of obfuscation by Windows. Pour some sweet encryption and undocumented protocols over it. Good luck figuring out what is going on.

- Forced reboots for updates. Great, so you lost unsaved work, possibly hours of computing time for a project your PC was working at (like a video render), complete lack of information about what the machine is installing, and all your browser tabs are likely gone. How is this acceptable to anyone? The user should be in control. Microsoft knows this, has had this critique for months, but couldn't be arsed to change it.
- Nagging popups about "Edge is faster than Chrome". Or I also heard something about the Super-bowl event.. even to non-americans. WTF? Piss off. I use my computer for productivity and games, if I want to see ads I will turn on the commercial television.

- The MS Store decides it's smarter than me. I wanted to install the free Forza game on my machine a little while back. While this machine got a DX12 FL11 compatible Quadro GPU with 2GB of VRAM; the store decided against me and I couldn't install it. Why? What artificial limitation is this? Or even more; why can't you recognize my hardware correctly in the first place?

- Aside from a few new features, honestly what has actually changed that makes me think: yes that's worth another 100$ of my hard earned money? Isn't the new UI just the old one but now a dumbed down version with more whitespace in it? Isn't it all a bit too fragmented so far? Aren't some updates like the Store, Cortana and DirectX12 shoved down your throat like it was necessary to add that?

Some of the nice features I just listed can be survived without. We have so with Windows 7 for years. Computers haven't changed fundamentally since then. So pragmatically there is no reason to absolutely run Windows 10, unless you really want to use a specific new feature. It's just that we're forced to eventually by dropping hardware support (like Intel Kaby Lake does) and stop making security patches. I'm sure if Microsoft added the "killer" features to Windows 7 , it would have been received very well. But I guess security patches and geek features is not what sells - after all MS is a commercial company.

It has recently been leaked that a Windows 10 Cloud edition is coming soon. It supposedly doesn't run applications outside the store. All applications you use must come from the store. I suspect they probably want to get the point where they started off with Windows 8 - strip out the desktop experience for consumers, completely dumb down the computing experience, and cash on purchases through the store. If they can get force a decent revenue through the store and then cash a couple ten % of that, sounds like how other companies got big as well.

What benefit does this have to the user? Well they say this cloud version could be cheaper for low end devices. OK great for them, but most passionate people will not buy a crap machine. Why would I buy a version of Windows with these artificial and this time very striking limitations? I have honestly no clue - but given that MS has a monopoly position in the computer market and many people are infected by the 'Stockholm Syndrome', I'm sure they get away  with it.

I think it's unfortunate MS is projecting all this commercial noise onto their desktop OS also used by professionals. For folks like us stuff like this is never going to work. I suppose it's not the only option going forward long term - but who knows.. MS was also crazy enough to think Windows 8 was a good idea.

Now this is my way of filling in the blanks. I think people intuitively form an opinion, and then enjoy reading and citing sources that enforces that opinion. Unfortunately it's a human thing to do - even though most of us are paid not to be like that.
 
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Offline slicendice

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2017, 07:58:49 pm »
LOL, nice and long rant! love it. A lot of facts and some fiction too.

Either way telemetry gathering is not something new, it exists in Windows 7 too. So please people don't say that one can't switch to 10 because of this privacy concern. The telemetry data only contains either basic, moderate or full data for your particular application or driver, no personal information is sent that can identify you.

Telemetry data today is a MUST. Microsoft has hundreds of millions of software and hardware configuration combinations to go through, and telemetry helps automate identifying the most problematic or common errors, so they can try to fix it as fast as possible.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2017, 08:32:30 pm »
If only Microsoft sold multiple versions of their operating systems simultaneously, it would be interesting to see what the market did. I suspect if they did a special platinum edition re-release of Windows 7 with the security updates and just a few of the under the hood improvements from Win10 it would fly off the shelves. Of course they won't do that because their entire roadmap now depends on getting a critical mass of people on Win10 so that they can corral them into their walled garden of subscription services.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2017, 09:06:48 pm »
Another former Windows 10 user here... My version was the "Home" edition and it was very limited in what I could disable in terms of updates and telemetry. Not to mention the unauthorized reboots that killed a few overnight rendering jobs along the way.

Either way telemetry gathering is not something new, it exists in Windows 7 too.
I am not entirely sure anybody denies that. However, one can thoroughly disable telemetry on Windows 7 and be sure it stays that way. In my opinion the forced re-enabling of previously disabled features of Windows 10 is what brings suspicions to the table. 

So please people don't say that one can't switch to 10 because of this privacy concern. The telemetry data only contains either basic, moderate or full data for your particular application or driver, no personal information is sent that can identify you.
Given that Microsoft is going at lengths to force telemetry options be turned on at every major update, that brings suspicions as to why this information is so valuable when compared to the risk of attracting bad reputation to this new product.

I can say that my current Windows 7 has a very manageable number of opened connections to external sites when compared to the Windows 10 install I had, although nowadays even Windows 7 is not a sea of roses. After reinstalling, I blindly installed Microsoft's subsequent updates which added a lot of telemetry bots to this version as well - reports indicated this trend started to happen after Microsoft released Windows 10, thus I can only re-emphasize what I mentioned above about how valuable this information is to them. 

Telemetry data today is a MUST. Microsoft has hundreds of millions of software and hardware configuration combinations to go through, and telemetry helps automate identifying the most problematic or common errors, so they can try to fix it as fast as possible.
Like others, I don't think anybody is denying that updates, telemetry, reboots are an evil per se. Having control over it is what is the biggest pet peeve. 
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Offline switchedmodepsu

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2017, 10:49:54 pm »
The fear, misinformation and ignorance in this thread would be a valuable resource from which to write a comedy skit.  :palm:

Get off your bums and get on with your lives, use what you want and get as paranoid as you want, no one can deny that even a fool appears wise when he says nothing - silence is golden.

OS discussions are soooo passé, you're wasting your lives discussing this piffle. If you're being spied on YOU WILL NOT know about it, so best you make up your mind to not give in to paranoia, or... well, carry on wasting time whittling on about unknowns.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 10:56:26 pm by switchedmodepowersupply »
 

Online Bud

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2017, 11:28:04 pm »
Switchedmodepowersupply can you shorten your name, it screws my browser
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Offline switchedmodepsu

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2017, 12:31:45 am »
Switchedmodepowersupply can you shorten your name, it screws my browser

LOL. Ermmmm, sorry, but that would be ridiculous. Maybe Mr EEVblog will fix the forum to make it so that something so trivial doesn't cause text overflow/wraparound issues (I've seen it too, it's this crappy forum code, not blaming Dave, it's not his design.)

I like my username - won't change it - that won't fix the forum.
 

Offline tronde

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2017, 02:31:56 am »
LOL, nice and long rant! love it. A lot of facts and some fiction too.

Either way telemetry gathering is not something new, it exists in Windows 7 too. So please people don't say that one can't switch to 10 because of this privacy concern. The telemetry data only contains either basic, moderate or full data for your particular application or driver, no personal information is sent that can identify you.

Telemetry data today is a MUST. Microsoft has hundreds of millions of software and hardware configuration combinations to go through, and telemetry helps automate identifying the most problematic or common errors, so they can try to fix it as fast as possible.

Instead of  :blah: :blah: :blah: you can try to give an intelligent answer to these questions:

Why is it disabled in the educational version of W10, and optional in enterprise? Why are the users of those two versions exempt fom telemetry? Why can't users of the professional version disable it?


Since the data sent to Microsoft are encryped, it's quite strange you know in detail what they contain...
 

Offline gnif

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2017, 03:36:03 am »
Switchedmodepowersupply can you shorten your name, it screws my browser

LOL. Ermmmm, sorry, but that would be ridiculous. Maybe Mr EEVblog will fix the forum to make it so that something so trivial doesn't cause text overflow/wraparound issues (I've seen it too, it's this crappy forum code, not blaming Dave, it's not his design.)

I like my username - won't change it - that won't fix the forum.

Dude, your name has no spaces in it... which is why it wont wrap, it is how all text layout tools/programs, even Word deal with such things. You are ridiculous to think that the website should work around your lack of understanding on how text layout works.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2017, 03:39:40 am »
 :)

Who else is old enough to remember when if some punk like that showed up everybody be like "Hey, you blew the borders!"
iratus parum formica
 

Offline switchedmodepsu

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2017, 03:50:44 am »
Switchedmodepowersupply can you shorten your name, it screws my browser

LOL. Ermmmm, sorry, but that would be ridiculous. Maybe Mr EEVblog will fix the forum to make it so that something so trivial doesn't cause text overflow/wraparound issues (I've seen it too, it's this crappy forum code, not blaming Dave, it's not his design.)

I like my username - won't change it - that won't fix the forum.

Dude, your name has no spaces in it... which is why it wont wrap, it is how all text layout tools/programs, even Word deal with such things. You are ridiculous to think that the website should work around your lack of understanding on how text layout works.

Guess who designed the code that made a forum break when a username that DIDN'T exceed a length limit that wasn't set, was displayed? When you can guess who it is, email them and ask them to email Dave and show him how to fix it. Nice try blaming me.

PS: Tell me what else I know or don't know - pick a subject, any subject, and then tell me where my knowledge gaps lie - that'll save me HUGE amounts of time in my life, and I can then go and fill those gaps, and I'll gladly pay you for your services in being able to point out where I am missing information.

PPS: You know where I live, come for coffee, not seen you in ages! ;)
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2017, 03:54:22 am »
Your energy is ill-targeted..

http://www.simplemachines.org/contribute/
iratus parum formica
 

Offline gnif

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2017, 04:22:50 am »
Switchedmodepowersupply can you shorten your name, it screws my browser

LOL. Ermmmm, sorry, but that would be ridiculous. Maybe Mr EEVblog will fix the forum to make it so that something so trivial doesn't cause text overflow/wraparound issues (I've seen it too, it's this crappy forum code, not blaming Dave, it's not his design.)

I like my username - won't change it - that won't fix the forum.

Dude, your name has no spaces in it... which is why it wont wrap, it is how all text layout tools/programs, even Word deal with such things. You are ridiculous to think that the website should work around your lack of understanding on how text layout works.

Guess who designed the code that made a forum break when a username that DIDN'T exceed a length limit that wasn't set, was displayed? When you can guess who it is, email them and ask them to email Dave and show him how to fix it. Nice try blaming me.

PS: Tell me what else I know or don't know - pick a subject, any subject, and then tell me where my knowledge gaps lie - that'll save me HUGE amounts of time in my life, and I can then go and fill those gaps, and I'll gladly pay you for your services in being able to point out where I am missing information.

PPS: You know where I live, come for coffee, not seen you in ages! ;)

  • No attempt to blame you there, just pointed out that you are asking too much of the layout capabilities built into the browser, and your choice of username makes it even harder. If you choose to use such a user name expect to have someone come along and complain, or even change it on you (I am tempted btw).
  • The theme the forum is using is what allocates space for the username, if it had a short arbitrary length limit, themes that allow for such things would be useless. Most people that use a longer username have the common sense to insert a space.
  • You are the first person I have seen on a forum anywhere, do this, and then blame the forum for choosing a handle that is not a handle.
  • I have no idea who you are, nor where you live, according to the forum, you are not even in the same country.


Edit: This is off topic, any further discussion regarding this should be over here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/totally-illegible-forum-footer-links-user-interface-fail/
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 04:27:06 am by gnif »
 

Offline switchedmodepsu

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Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2017, 04:25:21 am »
    Switchedmodepowersupply can you shorten your name, it screws my browser

    LOL. Ermmmm, sorry, but that would be ridiculous. Maybe Mr EEVblog will fix the forum to make it so that something so trivial doesn't cause text overflow/wraparound issues (I've seen it too, it's this crappy forum code, not blaming Dave, it's not his design.)

    I like my username - won't change it - that won't fix the forum.

    Dude, your name has no spaces in it... which is why it wont wrap, it is how all text layout tools/programs, even Word deal with such things. You are ridiculous to think that the website should work around your lack of understanding on how text layout works.

    Guess who designed the code that made a forum break when a username that DIDN'T exceed a length limit that wasn't set, was displayed? When you can guess who it is, email them and ask them to email Dave and show him how to fix it. Nice try blaming me.

    PS: Tell me what else I know or don't know - pick a subject, any subject, and then tell me where my knowledge gaps lie - that'll save me HUGE amounts of time in my life, and I can then go and fill those gaps, and I'll gladly pay you for your services in being able to point out where I am missing information.

    PPS: You know where I live, come for coffee, not seen you in ages! ;)

    • No attempt to blame you there, just pointed out that you are asking too much of the layout capabilities built into the browser, and your choice of username makes it even harder. If you choose to use such a user name expect to have someone come along and complain, or even change it on you (I am tempted btw).
    • The theme the forum is using is what allocates space for the username, if it had a short arbitrary length limit, themes that allow for such things would be useless. Most people that use a longer username have the common sense to insert a space.
    • You are the first person I have seen on a forum anywhere, do this, and then blame the forum for choosing a handle that is not a handle.
    • I have no idea who you are, nor where you live, according to the forum, you are not even in the same country.
    [/b]
    [/list]

    I'm most definitely in the country which I am in, affirmative Captain.

    I find it amusing in the utmost to be in a situation where I - the trigger for the bug - am being blamed for the manifestation of said bug, as opposed to the more rational, logical response from programmers, which would be "Oh, that shouldn't happen - let's go and debug it and patch that so it doesn't happen in future"

    There appears to be a somewhat gigantic case of passing the buck, here. Imagine if Apple blamed people who find bugs in their code which caused their products to go haywire! Do you know what Apple do when people find bugs, sometimes, they PATCH THEM and PAY the discoverer of said bug, not shout them down! LOL!
    « Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 04:29:57 am by switchedmodepowersupply »
     

    Offline gnif

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    Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
    « Reply #66 on: February 07, 2017, 04:29:15 am »
    I'm most definitely in the country which I am in, affirmative Captain.

    Looking at your post history this seems to be your process, looks like you are an outright troll trying to cause problems... this latest couple of posts just confirms this.
     

    Offline switchedmodepsu

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    Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
    « Reply #67 on: February 07, 2017, 04:30:21 am »
    I'm most definitely in the country which I am in, affirmative Captain.

    Looking at your post history this seems to be your process, looks like you are an outright troll trying to cause problems... this latest couple of posts just confirms this.

    How do you know this?
     

    Offline gnif

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    Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
    « Reply #68 on: February 07, 2017, 04:36:28 am »
    I'm most definitely in the country which I am in, affirmative Captain.

    Looking at your post history this seems to be your process, looks like you are an outright troll trying to cause problems... this latest couple of posts just confirms this.

    How do you know this?

    • Anyone can view posts made by a particular user across the forum.
    • In return for the generous offer of the wealth of information that Dave provides on this forum I do my best to provide him with server management, monitoring and support, including development/fixes/mods where needed. As such I am able to fix the issues that you have raised, but since doing so would break compatibility with SMF upgrades, this issue should be raised with SMF, not (ab)used and complained about on a completely unrelated forum.
     

    Offline Ed.Kloonk

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    Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
    « Reply #69 on: February 07, 2017, 04:37:14 am »

    How do you know this?

    Anyone who's done any modding or even admin gives every new user a certain amount of rope. A hint. You don't watch the user, you watch the rope.
    iratus parum formica
     
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    Offline switchedmodepsu

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    Re: Bloody Windows 10 dammit
    « Reply #70 on: February 07, 2017, 04:38:59 am »
    I'm most definitely in the country which I am in, affirmative Captain.

    Looking at your post history this seems to be your process, looks like you are an outright troll trying to cause problems... this latest couple of posts just confirms this.


    Okay Captain, sorry about that, I hope you recover from the stress I've caused you, sorry again.
    How do you know this?

    • Anyone can view posts made by a particular user across the forum.
    • In return for the generous offer of the wealth of information that Dave provides on this forum I do my best to provide him with server management, monitoring and support, including development/fixes/mods where needed. As such I am able to fix the issues that you have raised, but since doing so would break compatibility with SMF upgrades, this issue should be raised with SMF, not (ab)used and complained about on a completely unrelated forum.
     


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