Arbitration and no sue clauses on packaging and seals. SCUM K HYNIX

[MrMobodies]

I brought this on Amazon looking for an NVME .2 that will give off less heat for a laptop:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08DKB5LWY
Nothing on the page about an arbitration clause.

When it arrived just as I was about to break the seal and I notice this:

IMPORTANT - READ CAREFULLY BEFORE OPENING | By breaking this seal, you are accepting the SK Hynix's terms and condition enclosed in this which includes, among others, ARBITRATION CLAUSE, LIMITED WARRANTY and RETURN POLICY and the terms of the license agreement at http://ssd.skhynix.com/ssd_terms_english.html. If you do not agree with the terms above, please return the product within 30 days of your purchase.

https://ssd.skhynix.com/terms-conditions/

TERMS & CONDITIONS
The SK hynix Terms and Conditions (these “T&C”) govern your purchase and use of SK hynix Inc.’s solid-slate drive (the “Product”) and constitute an agreement between you and SK hynix Inc. (“SK hynix”). You agree that these T&C are the exclusive terms governing the sales transaction between you and SK hynix. As used in these T&C, “you” or the “customer” means the individual who has made the original purchase of the Product.

BY PURCHASING AND ACCEPTING DELIVERY OF THE PRODUCT, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THESE T&C. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE GOVERNED BY THESE T&C, PLEASE RETURN THE PRODUCT WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS OF RECEIPT OF SHIPMENT WITH A PROOF OF PURCHASE.

LIMITED WARRANTY
A five (5) year limited warranty is provided to customers who have purchased the Product. For Products that are replaced within the five (5) year warranty period, the remaining warranty period from the original date of purchase will apply.

SK hynix warrants that the Product will be free from defects in design and manufacturing which would affect the form, fit or function of the Product. This warranty is limited to the original purchaser. Any claim relating to or arising from the limited warranty must be made within one (1) year after the date that gives rise to such claim and before the warranty period has expired, and SK hynix shall have no liability thereafter. Claims may be made only by the customer who originally purchased the Product and currently owns it.

This warranty does not cover any Product which is incorporated into or used as a component or part of any system or product by manufacturers. Customers who purchased the system or the product must contact the system or product manufacturer or the place of purchase for warranty services for such Product.

Any Product that is determined by SK hynix to be defective within the warranty period may be repaired or replaced by an SK hynix authorized dealer in accordance with the warranty policy and the decision of SK hynix. In lieu of repair or replacement, the original purchaser may receive a refund of either the original purchase price or the fair market value of the Product, whichever is lower. The foregoing is SK hynix’s sole liability and the purchaser’s sole and exclusive remedy for SK hynix’s breach of warranty set forth herein.

To qualify for warranty service, a proof of purchase and a valid serial number must be provided. SK hynix will not provide any warranty coverage if the purchaser fails to provide a proof of purchase or a valid serial number.

In case of replacement of the Product, the customer must provide the serial number of the Product and relevant personal information. For a Product replacement via delivery (e.g. postal or parcel delivery service), the customer must contact an authorized SK hynix dealer in advance. If a Product is covered by this warranty, an authorized SK hynix dealer will provide a functionally-equivalent replacement which meets the specifications of SK hynix at no additional cost. The ownership right of the Product returned for the replacement shall be transferred to SK hynix. Be sure to back up all data stored on the Product before requesting the replacement from an authorized dealer, as the said Product shall not be returned to the customer after the replacement. In case of replacement or repair, SK hynix shall not be liable for any loss of data stored on the Product or for damage incurred to recover the said data. Therefore, you must back up any important data to another storage medium to prepare for unforeseen circumstances.

This warranty does not apply if the Products have been subjected to damage, misuse, abuse, negligence, improper installation or testing, improper maintenance or storage, improper repair, accident, alteration or any other change by anyone other than SK hynix. Damage or modifications of the Product include, but not limited to, disassembly, forgery of or damage to labels, defacement or removal of the original name and/or serial number, physical damage to the exterior, and damage to the connector pins.

THIS WARRANTY PROVIDES LEGAL RIGHTS TO THE CUSTOMER, AND THE LIMITATIONS OF THIS WARRANTY DO NOT UNDERMINE THE CUSTOMER’S EXPLICIT RIGHTS RECOGNIZED BY LAW. TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, SK hynix DOES NOT MAKE ANY EXPLICIT OR IMPLICIT GUARANTEE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, WITH REGARDS TO THIS PRODUCT IN ADDITION TO THE AFOREMENTIONED TERMS.
 
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
IN NO EVENT SHALL SK hynix BE HELD RESPONSIBLE TO YOU, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE) OR OTHER LEGAL OR EQUITABLE THEORY, FOR ANY SPECIAL, PUNITIVE, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, DAMAGES FOR ANY LOSS OF PROFIT OR REVENUES, LOSS OF DATA, WORK STOPPAGE, OR COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, EVEN IF SK hynix HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF THOSE COSTS OR DAMAGES. IN NO EVENT SHALL SK hynix BE LIABLE FOR COSTS OR DAMAGES IN EXCESS OF THE PURCHASE PRICE OF THE PRODUCT.

NOTWITHSTANDING THE LIMITED WARRANTY ABOVE, YOU ALSO AGREE NOT TO BRING ANY LEGAL ACTION, BASED UPON ANY LEGAL THEORY INCLUDING CONTRACT, TORT, EQUITY OR OTHERWISE, AGAINST SK hynix THAT IS MORE THAN ONE YEAR AFTER THE DATE OF PURCHASE.

GOVERNING LAW
These T&C and any and all matters arising out of or relating to these T&C will be governed and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California, without giving effect to any choice of law principles thereof which could result in the application of the law of another jurisdiction. Specifically, the validity, interpretation and performance of this agreement shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on the International Sale of Goods.

ARBITRATION CLAUSE
Any dispute, controversy or claim arising out of, relating to or in connection with these T&C, including the breach or validity thereof, or the use of the Products shall be finally resolved by binding arbitration as described in this paragraph, rather than in court. The arbitration shall be held in San Francisco, California, in accordance with the Rules of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce (the “Rules”) and presided by a sole arbitrator selected in accordance with the Rules. You and SK hynix hereby waive any rights to appeal or to review such award by any court, arbitrator, or tribunal.

YOU AND SK hynix AGREE TO ARBITRATE SOLELY ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, AND THAT THESE T&C DO NOT PERMIT CLASS ARBITRATION OR ANY CLAIMS BROUGHT AS A PLAINTIFF, CLAIMANT OR CLASS MEMBER IN ANY CLASS, CONSOLIDATED, OR REPRESENTATIVE ARBITRATION PROCEEDING. Class action and representative action procedures shall not be asserted in nor apply to any arbitration pursuant to these T&C. As such, the arbitrator may not consolidate more than one person’s claims, and may not otherwise preside over any form of a representative or class proceeding. Notwithstanding the arbitrator’s power to rule on its own jurisdiction and the validity or enforceability of this arbitration clause, the arbitrator has no power to rule on the validity or enforceability of the agreement to arbitrate solely on an individual basis.

This clause constitutes an arbitration agreement between you and SK hynix and shall be governed by the Federal Arbitration Act.


WAIVER OF JURY TRIAL AND CLASS ACTION
IF, FOR ANY REASON, A CLAIM PROCEEDS IN COURT RATHER THAN IN ARBITRATION, BOTH YOU AND SK hynix IRREVOCABLY AND UNCONDITIONALLY WAIVE ANY RIGHT YOU AND SK hynix MAY HAVE TO A TRIAL BY JURY IN RESPECT OF ANY LEGAL ACTION ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THESE T&C OR THE TRANSACTIONS CONTEMPLATED HEREBY. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE CONSIDERED THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS WAIVER AND YOU MAKES THIS WAIVER VOLUNTARILY.

FURTHER, YOU WAIVE ANY RIGHT TO ASSERT ANY CLAIMS OR LITIGATE IN COURT AGAINST SK hynix AS A REPRESENTATIVE OR MEMBER IN ANY CLASS OR REPRESENTATIVE ACTION, EXCEPT SUCH WAIVER IS PROHIBITED BY LAW OR DEEMED BY A COURT OF LAW TO BE AGAINST PUBLIC POLICY.

SEVERABILITY
If any term or provision of these T&C becomes invalid, illegal, or unenforceable, such term or provision shall be considered severed from these T&C, and all other terms and provisions of these T&C shall otherwise remain in full force and effect. To the extent possible, any invalid, illegal, or unenforceable term or provision shall be deemed modified so as to have the most similar result that is valid and enforceable under applicable California law.

MODIFICATION
Any attempt to alter, supplement, modify or amend these T&C by the Customer will be considered a material alteration and will be null and void. In addition, these T&C are subject to change at any time, without prior written notice. Therefore, please check the terms and conditions carefully each time you place an order with or accept delivery of any Product from SK hynix.

ENTIRE AGREEMENT
These T&C, together with the licensing agreement referenced herein and the invoices relating to Products purchased, are the complete and exclusive agreement between you and SK hynix, and they supersede all prior or contemporaneous proposals, oral or written, understandings, representations, conditions, warranties, and all other communications between you and SK hynix relating to the subject Products. These T&C may not be explained or supplemented by any prior course of dealings or trade by custom or usage.

Now when I buy things on Amazon I don't expect this especially if it is not printed on the page about an arbitration/no sue policy.

I could understand if it in relation to liability over data loss but why would I want to sue the manufacturer? Unless the product has a safety defect with it where it could overheat and set fire and this is why I am concerned.

I haven't broken the seal yet but I don't trust it.
What do you think.

[madires]

It depends on your specific jurisdiction if such arbitration clauses have any effect or if they are even completely invalid. A quick search for the UK results in https://www.herbertsmithfreehills.com/insights/reports/inside-arbitration/click-to-agree-technology-and-consumer-arbitration, saying that for B2C contracts compulsory arbitration is deemed automatically unfair and unenforceable when the claim is <= £5,000.

[tom66]

Forced arbitration is bullshit.  Arbitrators know who pays for their services - big business - so they rarely rock the boat as long as they can at least somewhat justify their decision.

[MrMobodies]

If it is for data loss and you have no backup then I could understand but it says "damage".
For anything else and I  think something else maybe wrong that they know it and are not declaring it and that clause is a sign.

IN NO EVENT SHALL SK hynix BE HELD RESPONSIBLE TO YOU, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE)  OR OTHER LEGAL OR EQUITABLE THEORY, FOR ANY SPECIAL, PUNITIVE  , INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, DAMAGES FOR ANY LOSS OF PROFIT OR REVENUES, LOSS OF DATA, WORK STOPPAGE, OR COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, EVEN IF SK hynix HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF THOSE COSTS OR DAMAGES. IN NO EVENT SHALL SK hynix BE LIABLE FOR COSTS OR DAMAGES IN EXCESS OF THE PURCHASE PRICE OF THE PRODUCT. 

So if the drive overheats and catches fire or damaged my laptop electrically due a fault and negligence on their part they are basically doing what they like and calling the user as I said before, "do they think users are stupid and are they effectively calling them stupid?"

I feel I certainly am if I break that seal.
I am pretty annoyed this was not disclosed on Amazon and I would have never brought it.

Do you think I should send it back?
I am pretty tempted to do so and make a complaint.

Just arranged for a return. Can't tolerate being treated like sh*t but in this case in advance by the manufacturer signing away my rights where they can do what they like and accept no liability. That kind of insulting crap should not exist in the marketplace especially on Amazon or am I missing something and none of their description or pictures show this clause so I am pretty ANNOYED at these TIME WASTERS.

[nctnico]

AFAIK these T&C are null&void in the EU. But I don't know how things are looking in the UK post-Brexit where it comes to this kind of BS.

[MrMobodies]

They can shove it. I just arranged a return.
A consumer rights restricting, forced arbitration, no sue policy applied and slapped on the seal/packaging AFTER I brought and paid for it that is NOT a part of or as described anywhere in the listing nor the pictures is not what I brought according to listing.

Clauses should be in the listing if it is on the packaging.
I am going to make a complaint to Amazon.

Hynix GOLD slogan:

SK hynix SSD – FORGED FOR PERFORMANCE

Goldmine for them to sell crap like this with forged arbitration clauses on the customers AFTER they purchase it could possible bypass the laws and consumer rights.

If they have confidence in their product then they may not need to sneak clauses on it so as far as I am concerned it is a piece of sh*t.

I am starting to think, is this a form is mis selling.
My consumer rights brought with the product is null and void (according to SK Hynix) once I open it but not described in the listing therefore it was misdold.

[EPAIII]

So, DON'T BREAK THE SEAL. CUT AROUND IT AND KEEP THE UNBROKEN SEAL in your files along with the papers associated with the purchase. Photograph yourself doing this. Have a witness present. Both you and the witness should date and sign the unbroken seal.

Then, if there is a problem I would bet that a good lawyer would find a way to sue them. After all, you did not break the seal.

PS: I once invalidated a rental lease for an apartment simply by following the procedure clearly written in that lease; word for word, sentence by sentence, and paragraph by paragraph. And I saved all the paperwork as the process proceeded. The lease was written from the point of view of evicting a tenant who was not paying the monthly rent. I simply stopped paying and the eviction process was followed perfectly by the management company and myself. I had written proof of every step. At the end, the lease itself declared that it was VOID.

I did not defraud the landlord for a single penny. They had a new tenant in the apartment BEFORE the payment I had made for the last month's rent and my deposit had run out. I took photographic proof of that. And I had left the apartment in better condition than when I entered so that deposit should have been returned. I told them to keep it for the last month's rent. If anything they owed me a refund for a week or two of that rent but, of course, that was not forthcoming.

I had fun corresponding with their lawyer for six or eight months. Must have cost the landlord a small fortune. I answered every one of his letters with FACTS. He finally gave up.

PPS: From things that the management company said, I believe it was their intention to defraud me by keeping the deposit I had made (one full month's rent) by claiming that there was damage to the apartment. This avoided that.

My point is, READ the legal language carefully. It may be more in your favor than you or THEY might think.

[Halcyon]

Whilst I'm not a lawyer, I'd suggest that some of those terms would be considered illegal and unenforceable in Australia.

For example, the law here says that you cannot "sign or agree away" your consumer rights that are written into legislation, which would include restricting your ability to take a company to court.

But as is the case with a lot of terms and conditions; they aren't worth the paper they are written on until contested.

Australian consumer law applies to all companies who conduct business or sell their products in Australia, even if they are based overseas.

[EPAIII]

One more thing. When buying on the internet ALWAYS use a credit card. Not a debit card, but a credit card. In the US, at least, but likely in many other countries credit card purchases have a lot more protection than any other way of paying for something. I have been able to recover a year of monthly payments billed by an internet company that went belly up. I don't know if the bank that issued my card ate the $ $ $ or if they reversed the payments to that defunct company, but I got every penny back.

A debit card works differently. It is more like handing cash or a valid check to the seller. Much harder to reverse.

If you are defrauded in any purchase made with a credit card, you simply should make the issuing bank aware within 30 days and they take over. Oh, and this is one way to induce PayPal to keep things honest. If they don't issue the refund then the cc bank WILL. But if the purchase was funded via your bank account that you registered with PayPal, then once the money is transferred, it is a LOT harder to get back. There is an option to fund any PayPal purchase with a credit card, just look for it in the checkout.

Oh, and credit cards have a bonus; I get a 1.5% discount on every purchase and that includes tax and shipping. I receive at least $500 back, IN CASH, every year from my credit card purchases. I don't know about you, but I can certainly use that money - and I do use it. Some credit cards are even giving 2% back now. I can't get even 0.5% interest on a savings account.

[Halcyon]

One more thing. When buying on the internet ALWAYS use a credit card. Not a debit card, but a credit card. In the US, at least, but likely in many other countries credit card purchases have a lot more protection than any other way of paying for something.

Really good advice. In Australia, banks are a bit more forgiving on debit cards. I've successfully disputed transactions previously and the bank reversed the charge on my debit card within days. However these days, I use Amex for just about everything. They've got some pretty strong policies for covering or refunding purchases within 90 days. Some Amex cards also come with added insurances to cover some products after the manufacturer's warranty expires.

[MrMobodies]

AFAIK these T&C are null&void in the EU. But I don't know how things are looking in the UK post-Brexit where it comes to this kind of BS.

Amazon reviews:

UK Marcus
4.0 out of 5 stars hopfully it is a great choice for next few years
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 21 September 2024
Capacity: 1TBVerified Purchase
Summary: 4/5 = Good

Cons:

- The first delivery of the SK Hynix Gold P31 arrived in a large envelope. The SSD box inside had a damaged protection sticker, and the drive itself was missing. I immediately reported this to Amazon customer service, and they processed a refund quickly. After receiving the refund, I reordered the same model without further issues.

- The Amazon listing stated that the item was "Sold by SK Hynix EU," but it's unclear who this entity refers to. The official SK Hynix website lists a UK headquarters at Unit 4, Horizon Business Village, 1 Brooklands Road, Weybridge, Surrey KT13 0TJ. However, "SK Hynix EU" is not mentioned on their site, and the package was delivered to local Amazon center within around 9 hours of placing the order, making it unlikely to have been shipped from within the European Union. The SK Hynix website lists M2M and EG Electronics International AB as official distributors for the UK.

- The official software for this SSD, Drive Manager: Easy Kit (32-bit) C2.7.1, was unable to detect the drive when it is connected via USB. As a result, checking the drive with this software was not possible. To test the SSD, third-party software like CrystalDiskInfo must be used, or the drive needs to be connected directly to the motherboard via an M.2 connector.

- Additionally, there have been no firmware updates for this drive in recent years, whereas other brands like Samsung and Kioxia provide more frequent firmware updates.

- Note that the mounting screw is not included with the package.

Pros:

+ Amazon resolved the initial issue with the missing drive, and the replacement was delivered in perfect condition.
+ Prime delivery was on time (next-day), with the packaging intact. The drive inside was wrapped in foil with an additional protective sticker.
+ S.M.A.R.T. parameters were checked using third-party software, and the drive appears to be new and functioning as expected.

Unknown:
? Performance, temperature under stress, and other parameters have not yet been tested.
? Durability is unknown at this time.
? The 5-year limited warranty has not yet been tested in practice.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03077981/officers

Registered office address
Unit 4 Horizon Business Village, 1 Brooklands Road, Weybridge, Surrey, United Kingdom, KT13 0TJ
Company status: Active
Company type: Private limited Company
Incorporated on: 5 July 1995

Officers:
*LEE, Hyunggy Secretary Appointed on 10 March 2023
BACK, Jongjin, Director Country of residence South Korea
LEE, Hyunggy, CFO Country of residence, *Germany,
PARK, Chan Dong, Managing Director Germany

They are in the EU and this country so their clauses could apply.
Absolute SCUMBAGS! who decided this.

Maybe I'll see if I can contact trading standards and see what they have to say about this.

Anson Lake 1.0 out of 5 stars Buy at your own risk
Reviewed in the United States on 2 June 2024
Capacity: 2TBVerified Purchase
Purchased this in Jan of 2023 and installed it no issue.
...
Worked well until I started having issues booting in July. Would not boot. BIOS would see the drive, but Windows recovery environment and install environment wouldn't see it...
BIOS would fluctuate between being able to see the drive and not.
...
I purchased an external NVME to USB drive enclosure
...
My PC saw the new drive, and opened it, but once I started doing stuff to move files, it disappeared and never came back.

I don't usually do this, but I feel I need to warn any potential buyers out there. I've contacted the email address listed on the SK hynix site multiple times with my invoice and serial number of the drive. I know drives fail sometimes, but most reputable companies stand behind their SSDs with warranty of some sort. Any drive that fails in less than a few years is not worth whatever pennies you saved on choosing this brand. DO NOT PUT IMPORTANT FILES ON A SK hynix DRIVE. THEY DO NOT STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT.
5 people found this helpful

Christopher Hand
1.0 out of 5 stars Defective
Reviewed in the United States on 11 September 2024
Capacity: 2TBVerified Purchase
Mine was defective within warranty and I can't get a refund or return.

Simon S.
1.0 out of 5 stars Died in less then 6 months ...
Reviewed in the United States on 21 April 2022
Capacity: 2TBVerified Purchase
... nothing else to say.

Was barely used, in an Convertible. Will block the PC from even turning back on - never ever had that happen with any other brand. Seagate, Samsung, WD, Sandisk ... none on them did this.

In addition to that getting to the customer service is kind of hard - despite selling it on Amazon nad being reachable here they ask me to fill a contact form on their SSD-Page instead. No E-Mail of them is to be found on their page anywhere to.
6 people found this helpful

Sounds all good and well for over 3247 ratings with 97% (5+4+3 star) ratings but when something goes wrong can I trust the warranty and that clause.

It is a real shame because that would have been ideal reading about it doesn't give out much heat for a laptop but I can't accept it on those terms unless it is all to do with data loss.

It was for a Lenovo T490 where one is in there (a Toshiba 256gb that doesn't seem to get too hot) and the thermal pad is underneath. I see under it is white coloured on the pcb for the heat dissipation. I don't want to put something in there that is going to get very hot and cause the motherboard to overheat.

[tom66]

Vote with your wallet.  Buy another SSD. 

Compulsory arbitration is illegal in the UK for claims under £5k anyway.  You can opt into it if they suggest, but that's at your discretion.

[MrMobodies]

Vote with your wallet.  Buy another SSD. 

Compulsory arbitration is illegal in the UK for claims under £5k anyway.  You can opt into it if they suggest, but that's at your discretion.

Just sent Louis Rossman and email last night with the pictures to see what he has to say as I think he might be interested.

I am very annoyed having to waste my time and effort buying it, preparing to use it and a big slap in the face (the no sue clause) all to send it back

Imagine walking into a shop and buying this product which is appears as a dummy on the shelves with the real item sold behind the counter. After paying for it at the till and they slap a extra terms and conditions/waiver, warranty limiting no sue clauses and liability seal on it for if it goes wrong in (contrary to consumer rights and selling laws) and then hand it to you now wouldn't that be misselling?

If it had it on the dummy or explained before buying it then I wouldn't buy it.

[Nominal Animal]

AFAIK these T&C are null&void in the EU.

Definitely so, between businesses ("traders") and consumers.

Anyone can determine the same for themselves starting at commission.europa.eu/consumer-contract-law.

The Contracts with consumers page at Your Europe is maintained by Directorate General for Internal Market, Industry, Entrepreneurship and SMEs and is an official website of the European Union, and is intended to explain all this in non-legalese to consumers and traders.

Simply put, for a consumer contract to be valid, the full terms and conditions must be clear, understandable, and available when the contract is entered into.
Terms or conditions available only after the purchase/contract ("hidden terms") are not binding to the customer (so they don't even invalidate the contract, they are simply ignored).  Any ambiguities will be ruled in the customer's favour.

[Nominal Animal]

A quick web search indicates that the UK law is very similar, with for example CompactLaw and the Financial Conduct Authority listing these "hidden terms" as unfair and not binding to the consumer at all.

It would be interesting to contact FCA with an image of the received product and extra terms and conditions not available nor revealed at the time of the purchase, and refer to SK Hynix UK Ltd. (03077981) with a link to the Amazon page where consumers complain about no refunds, and to the original sales page.

Unless consumers complain, the likes of FCA cannot pressure the vendors, and the vendors keep behaving this way.  With a good, reasonable complaint, a single contact from FCA could change things.  (It is unlikely, but possible SK Hynix relies on "all Western countries have laws similar to USA" beliefs, so this could be ignorance rather than malice – say, using the exact same packaging for all Western markets, and just not realizing the implications.  Of course, both UK and EU are impacted by this in similar manner.)

[janoc]

Vote with your wallet.  Buy another SSD. 

Compulsory arbitration is illegal in the UK for claims under £5k anyway.  You can opt into it if they suggest, but that's at your discretion.

Just sent Louis Rossman and email last night with the pictures to see what he has to say as I think he might be interested.

Not sure what you expect him to say? That he hates it - but that in the US this is legal?

He is in an entirely different jurisdiction and in the US forced arbitration clauses for B2C transactions, service providers, etc. are very common - as are uber expensive (for the companies defending against them) class action lawsuits. Which is exactly what these forced arbitration/no sue clauses are intended to prevent. I suspect the sticker is specifically designed for the US market and the seller didn't bother to replace it for the UK/EU markets where this stuff is unenforceable.

[Nominal Animal]

I suspect the sticker is specifically designed for the US market and the seller didn't bother to replace it for the UK/EU markets where this stuff is unenforceable.

Exactly.

UK FCA, however, might be interested.

[nctnico]

Vote with your wallet.  Buy another SSD. 

Compulsory arbitration is illegal in the UK for claims under £5k anyway.  You can opt into it if they suggest, but that's at your discretion.

Just sent Louis Rossman and email last night with the pictures to see what he has to say as I think he might be interested.

Not sure what you expect him to say? That he hates it - but that in the US this is legal?

He is in an entirely different jurisdiction and in the US forced arbitration clauses for B2C transactions, service providers, etc. are very common - as are uber expensive (for the companies defending against them) class action lawsuits. Which is exactly what these forced arbitration/no sue clauses are intended to prevent. I suspect the sticker is specifically designed for the US market and the seller didn't bother to replace it for the UK/EU markets where this stuff is unenforceable.

Actually I have noticed that US companies are more and more using the arbritation courts to avoid hefty legal fees. These arbritation courts seem to be based on the French legal system (which operates based on what is reasonable) instead of the antiquated British legal system. I don't think this is a bad move.

[janoc]

Arbitration courts have zero to do with the French legal system.

It is literally just a an arbitrator that you present your case to and they decide. There are no prosecutors, no advocates, no automatic right to appeal and the general rules of the game are very different from regular courts - often set by an agreement of the parties. Among them the pick of the arbitrators - often paid/chosen by the companies themselves.

Imagine how it would work if you would get to pick and pay a sympathetic judge in your court case! Yet that is exactly what happens with arbitration.

Arbitration is originally intended for an out-of-court (thus faster and cheaper) dispute settlements between businesses, where both sides first agree on the venue, choice of arbitrators, rules for the proceedings, etc. And now it is being abused also for consumer cases - where the consumer most often doesn't get any choice at all.

[Stray Electron]

One more thing. When buying on the internet ALWAYS use a credit card. Not a debit card, but a credit card. In the US, at least, but likely in many other countries credit card purchases have a lot more protection than any other way of paying for something.

Really good advice. In Australia, banks are a bit more forgiving on debit cards. I've successfully disputed transactions previously and the bank reversed the charge on my debit card within days. However these days, I use Amex for just about everything. They've got some pretty strong policies for covering or refunding purchases within 90 days. Some Amex cards also come with added insurances to cover some products after the manufacturer's warranty expires.

   I strongly agree with EPAIII.  Some banks have a policy to reverse charges if a transaction is disputed but with a credit card that is guaranteed under Federal law in the US. So I will take that protection vs what the bank's policy is, any day of the week!

  Among over reasons, banks have a habit of unilaterally changing their policies without the knowledge or the consent of the customers so what their policy allow one day could very well be null and void the next day.

[Stray Electron]

Vote with your wallet.  Buy another SSD. 

Compulsory arbitration is illegal in the UK for claims under £5k anyway.  You can opt into it if they suggest, but that's at your discretion.

Just sent Louis Rossman and email last night with the pictures to see what he has to say as I think he might be interested.

Not sure what you expect him to say? That he hates it - but that in the US this is legal?

He is in an entirely different jurisdiction and in the US forced arbitration clauses for B2C transactions, service providers, etc. are very common - as are uber expensive (for the companies defending against them) class action lawsuits. Which is exactly what these forced arbitration/no sue clauses are intended to prevent. I suspect the sticker is specifically designed for the US market and the seller didn't bother to replace it for the UK/EU markets where this stuff is unenforceable.

Actually I have noticed that US companies are more and more using the arbritation courts to avoid hefty legal fees. These arbritation courts seem to be based on the French legal system (which operates based on what is reasonable) instead of the antiquated British legal system. I don't think this is a bad move.

   At first, it doesn't sounds like a bad idea, but the reality is that the arbitration courts are always strongly rigged to favor the companies and that's why the companies mandate their use. Among other things, the arbitration courts are always located in a state and jurisdiction where the laws favor the company so the company usually automatically wins. But also the court is usually located in the wrong part of the country for most consumers to be able to travel there and stay there long enough to pursue any kind of legal action. For example, E-bay's pet court in located in California and I'm in Florida and that's 3200 miles from me. And given the way that lawyers are allowed to drag out court cases, someone may have to stay local to the court for years on end in order to pursue a case.

[SiliconWizard]

One even more problematic clause is preventing any kind of class action.

[ejeffrey]

Actually I have noticed that US companies are more and more using the arbritation courts to avoid hefty legal fees.

It's not.  Arbitration often costs them more because they have to pay the arbitration fees as well as whoever they hire to present their case to the arbiter. 

The biggest reason companies have arbitration clause is to avoid class action lawsuits.  The intent is that arbitration will be too annoying and difficult for most people to follow through with for small claims, and the arbitration clasue doesn't allow them to class together. 

The secondary reason is to avoid large damage awards   The terms and conditions often limit the liability to a small value such as the amount paid rather than acual damages (I.e., our product exploded and sent you to the hospital, here is your money back).  An arbiter will usually follow those rules, but a jury trial can always award actual damages and sometimes also punitive damages.

Stream recently dropped their mandatory arbitration clause precisely because it was too expensive.   People were submitting arbitration claims for slightly less than the arbitration fee and it was costing them a lot of money.  A few other companies have gone the same route.

[tom66]

Actually I have noticed that US companies are more and more using the arbritation courts to avoid hefty legal fees. These arbritation courts seem to be based on the French legal system (which operates based on what is reasonable) instead of the antiquated British legal system. I don't think this is a bad move.

Arbitration is generally bad for the consumer because arbitrators are paid by corporations.  Whilst in some instances of egregious acts by corporations they may side with consumers, they definitely have a significant bias towards the corporation.  After all, they can be substituted for any other arbitration firm if they do not keep their client happy.  Arbitration cases are also completely private, so it's impossible to build a picture of the results from these cases, and there's no right to appeal any arbitration result.

A fairer solution is something like a tribunal system, who decide on the balance of facts. In these tribunal affairs, lawyers are typically not required (the courts are specifically tailored to people who self-represent.)  In fact that's even the case in small claims courts here, the judges for those cases know that people are typically self-representing and therefore will be a little more forgiving for people who have a structurally sound case but not necessarily a legally perfect one.

[MrMobodies]

Officlal response from SK Hynix Amazon:

Your conversation with
SK Hynix EU
03-Oct-2024 22:18
Clause
03-Oct-2024 22:20
There was a product clause/no sue warranty on the seal and something about the state of California. Does this seal apply to the EU and UK?

04-Oct-2024 02:13
Hello ,
Thanks for reaching out.
Are you referring to the message concerning the SK hynix warranty and return policy?
If yes, no need to worry. Of course this clause is not only for the USA but is also applied to the EU and UK. However, you will be able to get a full customer service and warranty even if you had opened and used the product (according to the terms and conditions).

If you have further questions, feel free to contact us.
Best regards,

I am confused by this message. Are they tryIng to FOB me off?

The policy is in place for the EU and the UK but don't worry you have a warranty and customer service.  Pull the wool over my eyes.