crApple's disposable products

[Uncle Vernon]

I mean it's limited to 155mph, but without the limiter it might do 170. I don't know in what circumstance that's ever going to be an issue for me.

You never know! Why risk missing out! I probably don't need 500+ Nm of torque on an everyday basis either but it's nice to have for playtime.

whether people would buy a car which was not user serviceable in a similar way to Apple's products. And the simple fact is that many cars these days are exactly that and people still buy them.

That's fine as long as nobody See's fit to tell me I should be using fruit computers or a Camry sports.

As for being tools for engineers...  yeah, Apple don't really make those. But I don't think they market them as such either, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

No problem just some incessant  fan-boy static from a few fruit fans. This is after all an engineering forum, so I'm happy to pull the chain of anyone suggesting I use inappropriate tools. 

[_Sin]

Fan-boy stuff is wierd. I don't get it. No product is a panacea. And that applies as much to telling someone to buy a particular thing, as it does to telling someone not to.

The answer to the question "What computer should I get?" or for that matter "What car should I get" is never "Buy an X, they're the best"

The appropriate response, IMHO, is "What do you want it for?", and then proceed from there.

[WorldPowerLabs]

The newer model of my own car has several new features which I'd like, and which are *entirely* software based, with the onboard computer being exactly the same. However if I want them, I have to buy a new model, as the manufacturer will not release an update for cars even a few *months* old.

My vehicles are 15 and 13 years old.  There's no updating the firmware on these... at least not by a flash procedure.  No GPS, no voice-activated controls, no keyless start button, no iPod interface, no satellite radio, etc.  One of the two hasn't even been made since the 2000 model year.  However, they both serve their purposes (semi-beater van for moving large items and driving in populated areas, nice V8-powered coupe for fun).  Why do I keep them?  I like them -- it takes time to become truly familiar with something a complex as a car.  Not just how it handles, but also how to disassemble and repair things.  They also happen to be inexpensive to keep around.  The coupe because it is very reliable, and the van because parts are dirt-cheap and available everywhere.  Plus, although they do consume fossil fuel, I still consider them to be a better option than buying a new hybrid (or car of any sort) since manufacturing a new car consumes raw materials and energy and generates considerable pollution (often the worst of it ends up in "developing" nations).   Also, they are both rear-wheel drive.  I can't stand front-wheel drive vehicles, and I don't like the MPG hit of full-time AWD.  A family member's Subaru with the 4-cylinder non-turbo engine gets about the same gas mileage as my V8.

[A Hellene]

Hehe! The Virus Immunity myth of Apple, one of the company's strong selling points, is fading away... But, I guess that this really means nothing to the hordes of the Apple fanbois because their iGadget finish seems to be more important to them than the security of their wedding pictures or their other data files.

Apple removed the previous statement "It doesn't get PC viruses" and replaced it with "It's built to be safe," and "Safeguard your data. By doing nothing" with "Safety. Built in." A comparison of the old and new messages is currently available here.
[...]

Source: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

Another headline from "The Inquirer" states that a Macbook Pro Retina display glitch is discovered, which is being referred to as 'ghosting,' while its is unclear whether the issue is due to a faulty batch of IPS panels, or it is an issue with all new Retina display MacBooks. According to The Inquirer, "SHINY GADGET DESIGNER [sic] [...] was unavailable for comment at the time of writing."

It seems that even god, the fanbois' god, has problems. But this seems to be perfectly justified in their minds, since their other god could not create the world right in the first place (remember, we are stated to be imperfect, and their currently imperfect world is patiently awaiting for a revision they call the Apocalypse)...


-George

[jerry507]

It would be fine if the claims that the new Retina MBP isn't repairable were actually true. Sadly they're not. You can replace the screen, you can replace the battery, you can replace the logic board. You can replace every part of it. They're simply made it so you replace parts in a somewhat more granular fashion. For being an "all engineering" forum there are a lot of people who love their sweeping generalization that ignore reality.

Also, the security of my stuff is important to me. But the implication SEEMS to be there is better out there. Windows sure isn't it... And the reality is Windows and OSX are the only two OS's out there for every day use.

[ToBeFrank]

Part of the problem is that at companies, such as Apple, the decisions about how to produce, where to produce, and what to do with the profits, is made by a small group of about 20 people. Statistically speaking, a small group of people like this cannot represent the interests of the general public

Nor should they since as a public company they are bound by law to represent the interests of their shareholders.

[ToBeFrank]

I can modify the behavior of the ECU to make driving the pleasure no appliance will ever provide. I can increase economy in doing so too. My car doesn't need to be forever configured in the numbskull warranty preservation mode.

What vehicle is this?

[timelessbeing]

The only drawbacks I can see is that you can't replace it yourself and that replacement is more expensive than it used to be

Which is exactly what will land more electronics in the landfill. Stop defending it.

@ SgtRock
I think you missed the point. Apple is not unique in perpetuating our irresponsible system of production, but they are giving it an extra boost. What happens in the 3rd world is NOT always the fault of a Western company. I just think Western companies can do better than this.

@ Sin
I agree. From what I've seen, car manufacturers are going down the same route. By the way, there is a group fighting this.

I'm sure it won't take too long to defeat the dreaded glue...

I'm sure it won't take long either. People with good intentions can be quite ingenious. But you can count on Apple to keep trying to defeat them.

Nor should they since as a public company they are bound by law to represent the interests of their shareholders.

... who increasingly value share prices above all else.

[Uncle Vernon]

I can modify the behavior of the ECU to make driving the pleasure no appliance will ever provide. I can increase economy in doing so too. My car doesn't need to be forever configured in the numbskull warranty preservation mode.

What vehicle is this?

Vehicles! / Can never be happy with just one. 

[ToBeFrank]

I can modify the behavior of the ECU to make driving the pleasure no appliance will ever provide. I can increase economy in doing so too. My car doesn't need to be forever configured in the numbskull warranty preservation mode.

What vehicle is this?

Vehicles! / Can never be happy with just one. 

Is it a secret which one or ones you can modify the behavior of the ECU?

[Uncle Vernon]

Vehicles! / Can never be happy with just one. 

Is it a secret which one or ones you can modify the behavior of the ECU?
[/quote]

No secret just some AU/US based Fords and the odd Dodge product. Nowhere in the ECU you cannot go, with the right tools. Many are after market products of the Manufacturer. You just need to know where to source.

[Omicron]

The only drawbacks I can see is that you can't replace it yourself and that replacement is more expensive than it used to be

Which is exactly what will land more electronics in the landfill. Stop defending it.

I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion. If I buy a 2000 dollar laptop and the battery dies before it's time, am I really going to say: "gee, a 200 dollar repair is just too much hassle, let's just buy another 2000 dollar laptop instead and throw this one in the bin". That seems a little unlikely to me.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a world were we still had the kind of repairability we all love in old HP and Tek instruments. And if those kinds of products were still available I'd be one of the first to buy them. It just seems to me that any topic that happens to mentions the "Apple" word turns unnecessary ugly really quickly. It seems any rational discussion quickly becomes impossible and if you even try to balance the discussion you get stamped a "fanboy" or worse. I'm getting a little tired of that to be honest.

[timelessbeing]

That seems a little unlikely to me.

Don't kid yourself.

It just seems to me that any topic that happens to mentions the "Apple" word turns unnecessary ugly

This should not deter us from having serious discussions.

[Omicron]

That seems a little unlikely to me.

Don't kid yourself.

Well I assume that there do exist people who have that much money to waste. But that can't be a very large percentage. And I somehow doubt that good repairability would sway them not to act that foolishly.

I can honestly say I've never thrown away any type of computing equipment, be it Apple or anything else. Everything I bought is either still in use or has been sold second hand or donated to friends or family. I've been a professional software developer for almost 20 years now so it's not that I am new to this either.

Heck, I even still have my 20 year old HP-28S calculator. And that thing is broken and utterly unrepairable. Just that it's been a trusty companion for so long that I can't seem to get myself to throw it away :-)

[timelessbeing]

@ Omicron
I believe you. To me you sound like someone who isn't wasteful. I am the the same.

However, I don't have the same faith in society. However big or small the percentage of people with more money than sense, pentalobular screws are going to make the problem worse.

If a person knows they can take their Macbook to the repair guy on the corner to have their battery replaced for, say $100, then yes I think that would sway them.

[jerry507]

@ Omicron
I believe you. To me you sound like someone who isn't wasteful. I am the the same.

However, I don't have the same faith in society. However big or small the percentage of people with more money than sense, pentalobular screws are going to make the problem worse.

If a person knows they can take their Macbook to the repair guy on the corner to have their battery replaced for, say $100, then yes I think that would sway them.

My wife can take her unibody MBP to the Apple store and get a new battery installed for 130$+tax. I can just go buy one from the Apple store for 130 and pop it in myself. Honestly I'd rather take it to the Apple store than some random repair guy. By the same token I'd send a broken Dell back to Dell over the same repair dude.

I don't accept that Apple products are "not repairable" but it seems obvious that they have a smaller number of replacement parts.

[_Sin]

Non-standard screws are a bit stupid. Especially as it's so trivial to simply buy a cheap non-standard screwdriver with which to remove them.

I think the screws are just Apple's answer to everyone elses "warranty void if removed" sticker. i.e. something trivial to bypass, but which nonetheless leaves you in no doubt that the manufacturer doesn't want you poking around in there. I doubt there are many people on this forum who would let either put them off.

And I doubt Apple are stupid enough to think it's going to actually stop anyone who really wanted to get in.

Dumb, but not an obstacle.

[jerry507]

I agree, the screws are stupid. They actually keep changing them every couple years. They used to be tri-wings, then pentalobes.

But when I realized that the install of the new battery was included in the cost of the battery, I stopped caring. I'm going to buy the battery from Apple anyway, so I don't really need to remove it. The only real annoyance is that you can't disconnect the battery without removing it. That's just poor foresight in the design.

[T4P]

Please, lock this thread. I've had enough

[jerry507]

You're just upset your rude behavior got you banned 

[Mechatrommer]

Please, lock this thread. I've had enough

dude welcome back. relax! let them win la! you got nothin to lose

[T4P]

Please, lock this thread. I've had enough

dude welcome back. relax! let them win la! you got nothin to lose

[SeanB]

Shoot, wondered what had happened to DaveXRQ, it had been suddenly civil........ Welcome back?!

[T4P]

Shoot, wondered what had happened to DaveXRQ, it had been suddenly civil........ Welcome back?!

I figured i would walk off with a laptop that costs much less... nothing to lose!
Thanks anyway.