Aging Airpods...

[CatalinaWOW]

It looks to me like protection from lawsuits over burning laptops.

If someone uses a cheap aftermarket battery in their Lenovo laptop and it burns their house down they don't go after the random Chinese seller they got the battery from, they blame Lenovo.

That's so utterly absurd I can't believe it even after having heard about that idiot who sued McDonald's for hot coffee being hot.
Any links?

I have no links, it is just my opinion.  But here in the US all advertising media is filled with ads from ambulance chasers (lawyers seeking clients that they can represent in lawsuits.  The lawyer collects a portion, usually 33% of any judgement.  The whole mindset is kind of like playing the lottery.  You probably won't win, but who knows, it might happen.

It is absurd.  Though none of these involve laptops, the following links show how the system is used and abused by many.  The good news is that many of these weird claims get thrown out or dramatically reduced.  The bad news is that a lot of time and legal defense money is spent before the final result appears even if they are eventually thrown out.  And the third link here has judgements that haven't been thrown out yet.

https://www.cracked.com/article_16358_9-insane-cases-that-prove-us-legal-system-screwed.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/7-most-ridiculous-lawsuits-nike-3238861

https://9gag.com/gag/ayngjoW/the-most-ridiculous-lawsuits-that-have-been-won-all-in-the-us-of-course

[kaz911]

i have airpods and love them.

I run with them indoor & outdoor 3-6 hours a week. I sail with them. Never lost any. They have dropped out of my hands though on my tile floor and still work.

Battery is down about 30% since i bought them at release. 1 has been replaced after 3 months on warranty as microphone failed.

Sound quality - fine - but my Bose QC35's are better for phone calls. The Bose's also have so far the best "User Interface" - nice real buttons! and good UI to change / switch between devices.

I know neither are "audiophile" - but they work well for what I do. I knew it was a small battery with maybe 500-1000 charge cycles in each. But so far they have not disappointed compared to what I expected.

[edy]

I bought one of these Sony's many years ago (a similar model but also about $24.99 CANADIAN! which is probably <$20 US) and have been using them every since:



They are fairly cheap compared to everything else out there, and I can actually fix them if something happens. The jack and cord actually is large enough to allow me to solder connections!

https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/sony-sony-over-ear-headphones-mdrzx110b-black-mdrzx110b/10325154.aspx?

https://www.staples.ca/en/SONY-MDRZX110B-Over-the-Head-Monitor-Headphones-Black/product_927192_1-CA_1_20001

I realize they are the antithesis of Apple AirPods but I know I won't lose these things and never have to worry about batteries. And the cord is freakingly long, these come with 1.2m long cord... but mine came with something like 5 or 6 ft and entry of cord only on one side of the head (like the Koss ones below).

Maybe my ears are defective and old but I still find they have a great sound.

I may not mind trying these out... they are also dirt cheap at $34.99 CANADIAN.... 8ft cord with single entry:

https://www.staples.ca/en/Koss-Ur20-Headphone-Full-size/product_799201_1-CA_1_20001





I'm no audiophile but please someone tell me how much of the price is going into audio quality and how much is going into fashion and style? Obviously those dollar store headphones are pure garbage... I wouldn't subject my kids to them. But once you get to something in the $25-50 range from a reputable maker, have you not reached a reasonable listening experience for most average people? Does spending another $200-300 really improve the sound that much more?

Look at Beats? They are owned by Apple... They are like the Nike of shoes... pricey as heck and all because of advertising, endorsement, style and bragging rights to everyone around you that you have enough money to spend $300 on a set of headphones. Yes we know they are good.... but are they $300 good?

https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/MV6X2LL/A/beats-studio3-wireless-headphones-nba-collection-raptors-white?cid=beats_hmp_beats_aos_thirty_ca_studio3_na

[TimNJ]

To note, I don't know why people complain that Apple products are not repairable. They are. I've repaired many Apple devices over the years with no problems at all. I've got Apple to repair them. But with all things, that only works down to a certain integration level.

It's true. For instance, replacing an iPhone battery is a task almost anyone could do. (Of course, this is coming from someone who has fixed lots of electronics.)

Even so, people seem to be:

a.) Convinced they don't have the skills (even though I'm arguing there's almost no real "skill" involved)
b.) Afraid they are going to break it

I guess those two are basically the same thing.

Most people I know just don't seem interested in fixing their own stuff. It's just a shame.

[james_s]

I absolutely hate it when my headphone cable snags on a doorknob or piece of furniture while I'm walking around the house so I'm sold on bluetooth for headphones. I bought a decent set a while back that has active noise cancelling since I use them on the bus when I commute to work. They're great, comfortable, reasonably good sound quality and the noise cancelling is really cool. For the ear bud type useful while doing exercise type things I'll deal with the wires but there are lots of bluetooth versions of those too.

[Halcyon]

I'll add to that -- By buying an Apple product, you also acknowledge that it has a finite lifespan and you should expect it to fail sooner than you think.

And yet, on average, last significantly longer than competing products...

Stats? Because my experience with modern Apple machines is completely the opposite.

[bd139]

Bar the MBA that lasted 3 weeks before the keyboard packed in, the pre-butterfly keyboard units are incredibly reliable compared to pretty much everything else on the market apart from T and X series ThinkPads.

99% of the ones I have to fix are over 5-6 years old and the usual failures are worn out connectors and batteries and that's about it. I've got a G3 iBook somewhere that still works!

Edit: I've got a G4 powermac at my parents as well which was still working about 4 years ago. That got the crap hammered out of it for about 5 years.

[oPossum]

A big question I haven’t seen addressed by anyone yet is what Apple charges for out-of-warranty replacement/repair of AirPods with worn out batteries.

$49 each for battery replacement.

https://support.apple.com/airpods/repair/service

[amyk]

How do you make smaller, more efficent things without sacrificing repair?

By using your brain. How would you design AirPods with replaceable batteries?

The carrying/charging case is simple, just don't glue everything together.

https://mindtribe.com/2017/01/apple-airpod-charger-teardown-and-reverse-engineering/

Look, screws! ...once you're already inside. The bastards cleverly decided to glue together the pieces that stop you from taking it apart, but clearly aren't cost-saving if they are still screwing the insides together.

For the buds themselves, once again less glue and more threaded/snap-fit parts would do the trick. It wouldn't make them much bigger if at all, but certainly helps repairability. If they were really smart they could do away with wires almost completely, and use spring contacts to make disassembly and assembly easier.

Here's something to consider, an iPhone 5 clone with an easily removable battery: https://www.gizchina.com/2013/09/24/jiayu-g5-teardown/

[edy]

Let's face it, Apple has no interest whatsoever in designing their products to be repairable. They want their products to look stylish, it is all about design. If the best design means no externally visible screws, extremely compact design, curved white plastic bodies, thinness, that is what they will do. It hasn't hurt their bottom line... and other manufacturers are following suit.

If companies gain market share and profitability BECAUSE they make their devices easier to repair, other companies will do the same. But as we have seen, Apple has proven that nobody cares about repair as people continue to shell out more and more money for crap they probably don't need and only do so because Apple's marketing is so amazingly effective.

Apple has also shown us that they can do things like create their own proprietary connectors, protocols and other standards that will keep Apple users tied in to their ecosystem... and users take it up their arse like champs, gladly shelling out more and more money. I don't know if they plan on adopting USB-C across the board but for now they are profiting nicely from their locked-in systems. I also remember their Bluetooth connectivity was also broken, to the extent that I had no issues connecting certain devices to Android and BlackBerry and almost every other phone, but Apple refused to properly connect to it (like it was using it's own "interpretation" of Bluetooth protocol).

I don't want to pick on Apple only... this is happening across the board to various extents by all companies. The only way to vote is with your money. Refuse to buy anything you can't tear apart easily and repair if needed, or just accept the fact as disposable electronics are now the norm and prepare to pay continuously as batteries continue to die.

I for one am using a Garmin Vivofit 4 which runs on a single battery that you change yearly, not a rechargeable. How many smartwatches out there have now glued in batteries that you charge daily/weekly? How easy is it to change them? My wife's Apple Watch decided to pop open a few weeks ago... battery swelled and screen popped off the case. It was under the "extended" warranty Apple has because there was a major problem with many of their watches. Otherwise, that would have been an expensive needless repair, as it hasn't been that long. Next time the battery swells and decides to pop open the watch (or explode on the wrist) I am not so sure Apple will fix it.

[NiHaoMike]

How many smartwatches out there have now glued in batteries that you charge daily/weekly? How easy is it to change them?

I have a Galaxy Gear that's 5 years old, still on the original battery, although replacing it would be trivial. I only charge it up to about 80% to extend the lifetime just as is done for EVs.

[0culus]

Let's face it, Apple has no interest whatsoever in designing their products to be repairable. They want their products to look stylish, it is all about design. If the best design means no externally visible screws, extremely compact design, curved white plastic bodies, thinness, that is what they will do. It hasn't hurt their bottom line... and other manufacturers are following suit.

If companies gain market share and profitability BECAUSE they make their devices easier to repair, other companies will do the same. But as we have seen, Apple has proven that nobody cares about repair as people continue to shell out more and more money for crap they probably don't need and only do so because Apple's marketing is so amazingly effective.

Apple has also shown us that they can do things like create their own proprietary connectors, protocols and other standards that will keep Apple users tied in to their ecosystem... and users take it up their arse like champs, gladly shelling out more and more money. I don't know if they plan on adopting USB-C across the board but for now they are profiting nicely from their locked-in systems. I also remember their Bluetooth connectivity was also broken, to the extent that I had no issues connecting certain devices to Android and BlackBerry and almost every other phone, but Apple refused to properly connect to it (like it was using it's own "interpretation" of Bluetooth protocol).

I don't want to pick on Apple only... this is happening across the board to various extents by all companies. The only way to vote is with your money. Refuse to buy anything you can't tear apart easily and repair if needed, or just accept the fact as disposable electronics are now the norm and prepare to pay continuously as batteries continue to die.

I for one am using a Garmin Vivofit 4 which runs on a single battery that you change yearly, not a rechargeable. How many smartwatches out there have now glued in batteries that you charge daily/weekly? How easy is it to change them? My wife's Apple Watch decided to pop open a few weeks ago... battery swelled and screen popped off the case. It was under the "extended" warranty Apple has because there was a major problem with many of their watches. Otherwise, that would have been an expensive needless repair, as it hasn't been that long. Next time the battery swells and decides to pop open the watch (or explode on the wrist) I am not so sure Apple will fix it.

"Why do you rob banks?"


"Because that's where the money is!"

All joking aside, lack of repairability is a problem all across the tech sector, and not just consumer electronics. Even our beloved test equipment...there's no way the stuff that's selling for 5-6 figures today will last and be repairable as long as the 5-6 figure test equipment made in the 1980s by HP, Tektronix, and others will.

[bd139]

How do you make smaller, more efficent things without sacrificing repair?

By using your brain. How would you design AirPods with replaceable batteries?

The carrying/charging case is simple, just don't glue everything together.

https://mindtribe.com/2017/01/apple-airpod-charger-teardown-and-reverse-engineering/

Look, screws! ...once you're already inside. The bastards cleverly decided to glue together the pieces that stop you from taking it apart, but clearly aren't cost-saving if they are still screwing the insides together.

For the buds themselves, once again less glue and more threaded/snap-fit parts would do the trick. It wouldn't make them much bigger if at all, but certainly helps repairability. If they were really smart they could do away with wires almost completely, and use spring contacts to make disassembly and assembly easier.

Here's something to consider, an iPhone 5 clone with an easily removable battery: https://www.gizchina.com/2013/09/24/jiayu-g5-teardown/

I just replaced an iPhone 5 battery the other day. It was very very easy. There’s a pull tab to remove it that worked really well and I was met with screws. Took 10 minutes.

The things that are are glued together and don’t need to be I tend to agree with. The problem with the AirPods is that to maintain hygiene and smooth edges so you don’t cut your ears and face open you need very controlled surfaces and that means using plastics and glue.

The charger, not so much so I agree there.

Edit: or do I. Looking at the tear down, what are you going to do inside it? Feck around for 4 hours finding parts, wait a month for them to arrive, swap out, or go into Apple store while you’re on a shopping trip and brow beat someone at the retard bar to give you a new one. My time is most productive spent on the latter.

[bd139]

Let's face it, Apple has no interest whatsoever in designing their products to be repairable. They want their products to look stylish, it is all about design. If the best design means no externally visible screws, extremely compact design, curved white plastic bodies, thinness, that is what they will do. It hasn't hurt their bottom line... and other manufacturers are following suit.

If companies gain market share and profitability BECAUSE they make their devices easier to repair, other companies will do the same. But as we have seen, Apple has proven that nobody cares about repair as people continue to shell out more and more money for crap they probably don't need and only do so because Apple's marketing is so amazingly effective.

Apple has also shown us that they can do things like create their own proprietary connectors, protocols and other standards that will keep Apple users tied in to their ecosystem... and users take it up their arse like champs, gladly shelling out more and more money. I don't know if they plan on adopting USB-C across the board but for now they are profiting nicely from their locked-in systems. I also remember their Bluetooth connectivity was also broken, to the extent that I had no issues connecting certain devices to Android and BlackBerry and almost every other phone, but Apple refused to properly connect to it (like it was using it's own "interpretation" of Bluetooth protocol).

I don't want to pick on Apple only... this is happening across the board to various extents by all companies. The only way to vote is with your money. Refuse to buy anything you can't tear apart easily and repair if needed, or just accept the fact as disposable electronics are now the norm and prepare to pay continuously as batteries continue to die.

I for one am using a Garmin Vivofit 4 which runs on a single battery that you change yearly, not a rechargeable. How many smartwatches out there have now glued in batteries that you charge daily/weekly? How easy is it to change them? My wife's Apple Watch decided to pop open a few weeks ago... battery swelled and screen popped off the case. It was under the "extended" warranty Apple has because there was a major problem with many of their watches. Otherwise, that would have been an expensive needless repair, as it hasn't been that long. Next time the battery swells and decides to pop open the watch (or explode on the wrist) I am not so sure Apple will fix it.

"Why do you rob banks?"


"Because that's where the money is!"

All joking aside, lack of repairability is a problem all across the tech sector, and not just consumer electronics. Even our beloved test equipment...there's no way the stuff that's selling for 5-6 figures today will last and be repairable as long as the 5-6 figure test equipment made in the 1980s by HP, Tektronix, and others will.

Problem is that we have moved to FRU replacement because the individual parts of the equipment are extremely difficult to service independently due to the greater integration. Also equipment mostly consists of machine placed and soldered boards now rather than human effort. For this we have got massively better performance and simple manufacturing which is a good thing because for the majority of items it works out cheaper. On a lot of stuff it’s not economically viable to bother repairing it because by the time we’ve approached the problem, done the diagnostics, ordered and replaced the parts, QA’ed the work, it has cost more in human time than replacing the faulty part.

A fine example: I worked on a production line for a bit that was TH and fully repairable stuff and the total hour effort to fill and test one board was about 5 hours average as most boards required manual intervention and debug/repair due to the nature of the design. The board was £3100 a go for a 100x160 Eurocard part (milspec). The production engineers redesigned this with cheaper SMD parts, boundary scan, and used the company pick and place and got the cost down to £1150 a board and build/test cycle down to under an hour. When boards came back for repair they were shredded with no diagnostics, firmware burned to match the original, run through QA JIT and another board sent out. One of the motivations to do this is there is no one who wanted to or could be paid to sit there and debug boards. I didnt want to do it, especially after I got a taste for automation (and incidentally dedicated the last 25 years of my life automating away crap like this)

Whether we like it or not economical viability comes in from greater automation, FRU replacement and design rationalisation. For this we get massively improved reliability, amazing performance, much lower cost,  much better functionality. For this we sacrifice the notion of repair somewhat. It’s s good trade off.

The right to repair movement is a good thing generally but at the same time it’s counterproductive in a lot of circumstances. It’s not 1975 and most stuff is not equipment we design ourselves for low volume hand production. And I’m fine with that.

[ConKbot]

My sennheiser IEMs haven't suffered any battery degradation even after years of use, and I can still use them for 40+ hours without having to charge. Maybe Apple can license the technology from them.

[apis]

I was looking at a Thinkpad but the T-series is pretty pricey for private individuals.

Mine is 4 years old and cost me half the price of a bottom end pile of consumer crap. I have added an SSD, full HD display, extended battery to it and broken even on an HP netbook price.

Have you considered used?

I've been looking off and on for a T-520 of some kind on ebay. If I actually needed a laptop, I probably would've bought one by now. I've seen some pretty good deals go by, even assuming I would probably want a new battery and possibly SSD and RAM upgrades.

Thanks for the advice, I've never really considered that option, I will definitely try that next time.

[BBBbbb]

fairly related:

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/d3mqna/internal-documents-show-apple-is-capable-of-implementing-right-to-repair-legislation

[bd139]

It's probably something they are rolling out quietly.  Apple tend to sit in absolute silence then suddenly do the right thing and make a lot of noise about it. The silence is frustrating and attracts a lot of criticism though.

However I'm not a proponent of "right to repair" if I'm honest. There's a big difference between people who are capable of repairing things and people who aren't and the latter should not be motivated to attempt it because all it results in is fucked up stuff. This fucked up stuff tends to then come to me, as the local Mr Fixit. Fine example is the iPhone 6 I recently did with a bad battery. The "user" turned up with a replacement battery he had bought on eBay, which is fair enough. However he'd tried to use the tool kit that came with it to replace the battery already. Basically all he'd done is destroy the pentalobe screws entirely and then deny that the battery came with a screwdriver (even though it had a picture of one on the front of the bag, a spudger and a couple of suckers in it) 

[madires]

If someone likes to screw up his broken iGadget even more by trying to repair it it's his decision. But he shouldn't be surprised when the proper repair will become more expensive because of the additional damage he caused. This is not about trying to make everything bullet proof for people with two left hands, it's about giving users the freedom to choose between repairing something DIY, asking a friend, going to an independent repair shop or visiting an authorized shop.

[rsjsouza]

A big question I haven’t seen addressed by anyone yet is what Apple charges for out-of-warranty replacement/repair of AirPods with worn out batteries. In an iPhone, for example, they charge about $80 for this, a far cry from the cost of a new phone. (And yes, this is often an actual phone replacement, if the battery replacement is considered too hazardous to perform in-store, like when a battery is bulging.) I have a suspicion that the cost is reasonable and that this a ton of ado about nothing.

I agree with your point but, as oPossum mentioned, $49 per unit (totaling 66% of a new one) is too hefty (I didn't verify this information).

Non-replaceable batteries are stupid and should be illegal.

Battery compartments and covers add significant physical size, so omitting them is a reasonable design decision. And battery compartments make tight waterproofing much harder to do.

You could make the case that "non-replaceable" may mean "non-end-user-replaceable", which would remove the need to have a complete battery compartment. I suspect the biggest criticism against Airpods is having its internals fully sealed.

Why anyone would buy those ridiculous looking Airpods has always been a mystery to me. There are countless bluetooth headphones out there that work at least as well, run much longer on a charge and cost a lot less. As an added bonus they don't look goofy.

You think wearing big headphones out on the street looks more goofy than AirPods? 

I'll add to that -- By buying an Apple product, you also acknowledge that it has a finite lifespan and you should expect it to fail sooner than you think.

And yet, on average, last significantly longer than competing products...

I would be very careful there, tooki. The quality of the A-brand competitors reached a very high level of quality - that and the fact I can't still shake the fragility of the aluminium case of my 2015 Macbook Pro.

How do you make smaller, more efficent things without sacrificing repair?

By using your brain. How would you design AirPods with replaceable batteries?

The carrying/charging case is simple, just don't glue everything together.

I think bd139's point is unquestionable; you have to sacrifice repair to get things smaller and sleeker - the SMD massive adoption in the 1980's with the consequential FRU replacement was one of the most striking examples that I can remember. However, the argument is when the design for repairability stops and the malice starts. Sure, the Airpods are innovative and perhaps demanded such level of integration, but one can't deny the competition can create a product mechanically as good while keeping the repairability in check.

I won't hold my breath for changes, though. As mentioned by bd139, currently Apple has no pressure to change their status quo.

[exe]

There are countless bluetooth headphones out there that work at least as well, run much longer on a charge and cost a lot less.

I dunno, I have 5 cheap Chinese BT earphones died last 1.5 year. One because of the cable, rest because of battery or charging IC, lifespan was about 5-7months. And all of them "unrepairable". Well, I managed to open one, put a battery that I waited for more than month and it cost half of the phone (whooping 7euros), and guess what, shortly after repair they stopped working again (not due to the battery). Earphones that failed me: qcy-11, qcy-31, xiaomi earbuds and other models I don't know the name.

So, now I'm using wired earphones while waiting for new bt earphones, but airpods don't look that bad after all.

[apis]

I have Philips and SonyEricsson bt headsets that have lasted for years, and cost a fraction of the apple stuff. None have replaceable batteries though (the SE ones almost do but it's a real pain to get to the battery), even though it would have been easy to implement. Maybe the manufacturers feel they would have to sell battery packs themselves or pick some standard nimh battery, etc? They could just have left the battery accessible, used screws or even a snap together case, and let the user worry about how to find a replacement battery (which some seller on aliexpress no doubt would have been happy to provide).

Looking at how the airpods are made it looks like the battery are in the elongated cylindrical section. I suspect it would have been possible to make them so that you could unscrew them, or maybe just plug them in with a miniature rca style connector.

The youtube ai suggested this video to me:

[bd139]

As a counterpoint to this, I use the ones that came with my iPhone. They have wires. They work. No problems. No charger. No batteries to go flat. Haven't knackered a pair yet. My other half has but only through dropping them down the toilet.

Is it really worth getting buggered hard to have 3 feet of wire taken out of your life?

[exe]

Is it really worth getting buggered hard to have 3 feet of wire taken out of your life?

It's convenient to go wireless when doing sports.

[apis]

Is it really worth getting buggered hard to have 3 feet of wire taken out of your life?

I often use headphones with my computer and when I get up to fetch something I risk pulling it with me unless I remember to unplug first, can be quite annoying.