Against factory farming

[G7PSK]

There are still some parts of the world where they eat people. Just because they do so does that mean we should open slaughter plants for humans and ship them, I don't think so. The same goes for other animals that are eaten by some nationalities,We should not be sending horses or dogs or cats or Guinea pigs and a long list of others to meat packing plants.

[EEVblog]

Rewind the clock to a desensitized late 1800's society where food was neither as abundant nor readily available as it is today, then ask yourself the same question. Modern advancements of civilization have simply made life easy enough for vegetarians alike to disregard the biological fact that we're an omnivorous species--endowed with canines and a digestive system evolved to process a combination of both plants and meat.

Yeah, but now, because we are selfish bastards, we have 7 billion people to feed. If everyone wants that modern advanced civilisation and their steak, there is simply no future for our kids, this planet is rooted.

Dave.

[Uncle Vernon]

I sometimes wonder, what percentage of people who eat meat could actually bring themselves to kill the animal

I wonder how many people who live under a roof would be prepared to climb up the structure to build it. I wonder how many people who use an elevator would be prepared to enter the shaft to service it. I wonder how many people who fly in aircraft would be prepared to do their own jet service?
The argument above is emotive garbage, used by criminals like PETA to legitimise their attempts to force their thinking upon others.

[Uncle Vernon]

This a backhanded insult towards me, a vegetarian, and a racist comment against the Jains, of which I know a few. I do not come here to see ignorant, racist, and inflammatory trolling. I thought this was a place to discuss things honestly and intelligently. Some people still think this is a place for personal vendettas and agendas. Subtle compared to some other trolling? Yes, but still trolling, or poorly considered wording. I would like to believe the latter but the history here indicates otherwise.

It's just more of the endless supply of mostly indecipherable gibberish that said troll chooses to deposit in threads, various. I'd doubt it was an insult directly aimed at you, it's sole purpose is to gain attention or notice.

These pieces of trailer park prose and kindergarten name calling seldom, if ever, contribute anything to the threads, their purpose is to hijack threads and gain attention to someone unable to correspond in a sane and reasonable. I added this guy to my ignore list long ago and thankfully now just see the fallout, missing the bulk of the nonsense.

The vegan thing is a personal choice. Not one I subscribe to, but a decision that can come about from an entirely rational set of decisions. I respect your right to choose. Sadly there are organisations out there attempting to force such that choice upon the entire population, the fallout being that sane vegans who make a personal choice are often mistaken with those radical nutjobs.

[Uncle Vernon]

Yeah, but now, because we are selfish bastards, we have 7 billion people to feed. If everyone wants that modern advanced civilisation and their steak, there is simply no future for our kids, this planet is rooted.

The population growth is not entirely the result of selfishness. I don't subscribe to this negative view that suggest we all need to resort to some more primitive way of living for the population to survive. If the western world suffers from grief and overproduction and the third world suffers want and need surely a lot more can be done to redress the balance.
Our political and financial systems facilitate the greed of the individual and ignore the need of community, good leadership could massively redress the balance, nationally and internationally.

[Psi]

made life easy enough for vegetarians alike to disregard the biological fact that we're an omnivorous species--endowed with canines and a digestive system evolved to process a combination of both plants and meat.

I'm sorry, please don't consider this a personal attack but that is miss-information.
It is far from a scientific fact that humans are designed to be an omnivorous species. There is numerous evidence that does not fit that statement.
At best, it's still an issue that's being debated.

Just last month i heard a story from a friend, someone they know had gone to the doctor with, i think it was pancreatic cancer.
A while later he was talking with someone else who said a Vegetarian diet should help him live longer. Categorizing it as nonsense he dismissed it, but upon visiting his doctor some time later he casually mentioned that someone had even told him to go vegetarian. The doctor told him that yes, that should give him more time. He was quite upset at that and asked the doctor why he didn't tell him this before. The doctor just said, 'Well, would you do it?'.
Most doctors do know about this stuff, they just don't offer the information unless you ask. Probably afraid of being labeled i guess.

I wonder how many people who live under a roof would be prepared to climb up the structure to build it. I wonder how many people who use an elevator would be prepared to enter the shaft to service it. I wonder how many people who fly in aircraft would be prepared to do their own jet service?
The argument above is emotive garbage, used by criminals like PETA to legitimise their attempts to force their thinking upon others.

I'm sure most people would be fine doing that stuff if they had to, and had appropriate training.
I just have an issue with people who could never bring themselves to kill an animal for ethical reasons and yet buy meat from the supermarket and choose to ignore where it comes from.  It's of course their choice to make, but they're clearly deluding themselves in the worst possible way.

I quite like the thought experiment of, how the world would change if the job of killing the animal was like jury duty for those that want to eat meat.

[SgtRock]

Greetings EEVBees:

--Notice once again, that UV is replying and commenting on a post that he admits he has never read. He is still playing blind mans bluff, with the lights out, wearing boxing gloves, and cotton in his ears, and still hoping he has successfully guessed what it was that was  said. He needs a double secret ignore button. He must be fit to be tied reading that it all worked out and that there are no hard feelings. Stay tuned.

"In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"
Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus
1466 - 1536

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[Psi]

Yeah, the thread was going just fine before then.
There was even a disagreement that ended in both sides apologizing, which was great.

But UV posts are bringing the quality of this thread down, which is sad.

[Uncle Vernon]

Yeah, the thread was going just fine before then.

Some said similar things about WWII, didn't make that a correct assertion either!

There was even a disagreement that ended in both sides apologizing, which was great.

An entirely pointless disagreement brought about by yet more of the routine trailer park rhetoric!

But UV posts are bringing the quality of this thread down, which is sad.

Don't like? Then you know your options!

I can cope with opinions that differ from my own, what is your excuse? If you cannot cope with diverse viewpoints then that is your personal issue to resolve, not an obligation of mine!

[slateraptor]

I'm sorry, please don't consider this a personal attack but that is miss-information.
It is far from a scientific fact that humans are designed to be an omnivorous species. There is numerous evidence that does not fit that statement.

I see it as nothing more than friendly discourse intended to rouse thought...nothing more.

Designed is definitely not the proper word, hence why I used the word evolved. Consider the existence of relevant vestigial components of human anatomy such as the appendix and wisdom teeth. Consider the necessity of B12 in human diet and the fact it does not naturally occur in plants.

[Psi]

I'm sorry, please don't consider this a personal attack but that is miss-information.
It is far from a scientific fact that humans are designed to be an omnivorous species. There is numerous evidence that does not fit that statement.

I see it as nothing more than friendly discourse intended to rouse thought...nothing more.

Designed is definitely not the proper word, hence why I used the word evolved. Consider the existence of relevant vestigial components of human anatomy such as the appendix and wisdom teeth. Consider the necessity of B12 in human diet and the fact it does not naturally occur in plants.

Yes,  "evolved"  is a better word, thanks.
I meant designed by evolution, or the universe or whatever.

Vegetables can have some B12, if they are grown naturally. The pesticides/herbicides used in farm production normally kill all the micro-organisms responsible for B12 in vegetables.
I'm also not so sure about the whole B12 issue, i know a couple of people who are raw foodists. They're not dead and don't have any apparent B12 issues.
I suspect the current understanding of B12 and how it works isn't quite complete. But that's just my opinion.

[SgtRock]

Dear Psi:

-You better be careful what you say. You must by now be getting close to being put on UV's voluminous "people that ignore what I demand list". For some fun try addressing a comment to me such as. "Up until now I have defended you. But your recent comments about the stupidity of the Australians, is going too far" You see, in revenge I did poke a little gentle fun at PeterG who complains about the American pronunciation of solder. I gave him the old "Right Might, Bites a Pike inee Eye" elbow, all in good fun.

"He was born ignorant, and has been losing ground ever since."
Fred Allen 1894 1956

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[8086]

I'll just leave this here

[slateraptor]

I'll just leave this here

LMFAO!!

[SgtRock]

Dear 8086:

--After years of sampling British and American humor in writings, in movies and on TV, my conclusion is that, on average, the Brits are about twice as funny and heaps more subtle, but that is just on average, mind you. I think it is the subtlety that does it. It builds a pause into the gag, where the target has to think for a moment. And to think the BBC allowed the feminists to ban Benny Hill, what morons. While a whole generation of Brits have grown up not knowing who he is, we Yanks, watching late night cable, have been laughing our bums off. It takes a lot of skill to be broad and subtle at the same time. I am not terribly familiar with Australian humor, but if Rolf Harris is any example, I am convinced. I again include here a link to Rolf Harris as Jake the Peg, ROFLMAO



--An Australian asks an American; "Just what exactly are cheerleaders?" The Yank explains; "They root for the sports teams", The Ozzie says, Right, we've got those as well but we use a shorter word."

"Evabody gotta be someplace."
Jackie Mason 1936 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[NiHaoMike]

To make it clear, phasing out factory farming will not eliminate meat. It will increase the prices on animal products, but the price of other foods would go down dramatically, so the overall price of food would still go down. Considering that factory farmed food is low quality (high in fat/cholesterol, pesticides, antibiotics, etc.), it would only be a good thing as long as the transition is gradual.

For those who find a purely vegetarian diet too restrictive, look up flexitarian.

[Lightages]

Actually I am a vegetarian, but I also eat fish. The majority of my food comes from the ground. I am a vegetarian because it is healthier, cheaper, and impacts the earth and other people's lives less than eating meat. We could feed many more people on this earth if we all ate less meat, much less. Everyone would be healthier too with a vegetarian or more like a flexitarian diet, and with the change in attitude towards what is thought of as food. Factory farming is one of the ways to just increase the yield of cheap flabby meat for the masses who can't get enough of McDonalds.

When I have tried to point out to people that what they are eating is actually dead cow, I have been told to shut up, they don't want to hear that steak is a piece of a dead animal. As long as people equate steak, hamburgers, pork sausage and chicken nuggets as some kind of synthetic non-livingl glob of something that tastes good, factory farming will have a hard time keeping up with the demand. When people actually have to go kill their own animals for food, the ratio of meat in the diet is much much less because the people who actually live off of the animals they raise actually know the real cost in work, land, and energy for every animal they kill.

[kaz911]

I'm sorry, please don't consider this a personal attack but that is miss-information.
It is far from a scientific fact that humans are designed to be an omnivorous species. There is numerous evidence that does not fit that statement.

I see it as nothing more than friendly discourse intended to rouse thought...nothing more.

Designed is definitely not the proper word, hence why I used the word evolved. Consider the existence of relevant vestigial components of human anatomy such as the appendix and wisdom teeth. Consider the necessity of B12 in human diet and the fact it does not naturally occur in plants.

Yes,  "evolved"  is a better word, thanks.
I meant designed by evolution, or the universe or whatever.

Vegetables can have some B12, if they are grown naturally. The pesticides/herbicides used in farm production normally kill all the micro-organisms responsible for B12 in vegetables.
I'm also not so sure about the whole B12 issue, i know a couple of people who are raw foodists. They're not dead and don't have any apparent B12 issues.
I suspect the current understanding of B12 and how it works isn't quite complete. But that's just my opinion.

The human body tends to adopt to what it eats and modify itself to make it easier. Like the Japanese have a special enzyme in their gut that can digest seaweed better. No other "race" have that enzyme. But that possibly takes a few generations to get a new enzyme developing :-) (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/04/sushi-guts/)

And about meat and the human evolution: http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html

:-)

[siliconmix]

here in wales a lot of seaweed gets eaten " Laverbread" it's called.it's cooked mind. i don't know if cooking breaks down the enzyme you mentioned.

[G7PSK]

The solution is to stop eating meat. It takes ten times the resources to feed the same amount of people with a meat diet as it does to support those who are vegetarians.

Or simply chicken instead of red meat would make a massive difference in the amount of resources required.

Dave.

This might make any one think twice about eating chickens: http://www.naturalnews.com/032659_arsenic_chicken.html
They put arsenic into chicken food to make them grow quicker, the FDA used to argue that the arsenic was excreted by the chickens although they now admit not all of it is, but the chicken manure is turned into cattle feed so cows then eat the remaining arsenic then that is turned into hamburgers. Another interesting fact about factory produced food, mechanically recovered meat  is made using the whole animal feathers beak guts and all in the case of chicken and hoof hide guts etc for cows, there is then so much bacteria in the meat that it is treated with ammonia, the resultant goo has no color and tastes disgusting so color and flavorings are added, very often these days they will use flavorings and color from vegetable origins just so the marketing people can put no artificial color or flavorings are used in this product you will also see labels stating 100% pure beef or chicken what they mean is 100% of the chicken or cow lock stock and barrel.

[Uncle Vernon]

They put arsenic into chicken food to make them grow quicker, the FDA used to argue that the arsenic was excreted by the chickens although they now admit not all of it is, but the chicken manure is turned into cattle feed so cows then eat the remaining arsenic then that is turned into hamburgers. Another interesting fact about factory produced food, mechanically recovered meat  is made using the whole animal feathers beak guts and all in the case of chicken and hoof hide guts etc for cows, there is then so much bacteria in the meat that it is treated with ammonia, the resultant goo has no color and tastes disgusting so color and flavorings are added, very often these days they will use flavorings and color from vegetable origins just so the marketing people can put no artificial color or flavorings are used in this product you will also see labels stating 100% pure beef or chicken what they mean is 100% of the chicken or cow lock stock and barrel.

Who are they? They the enemy of crackpot video producers? Gullibility index of 101. The FDA just turned a blind eye did they? and it's been going on for years? Cattle hide Through your McBulge Burger. Sorry, but I call utter garbage and absolute exaggeration on that lot.

[Precisiontools]

Actually I am a vegetarian, but I also eat fish.

Vegetarians don't eat fish...or any other animal flesh for that matter.

[8086]

As long as people equate steak, hamburgers, pork sausage and chicken nuggets as some kind of synthetic non-livingl glob of something that tastes good

Do they? Which "people"? Children?

I don't know a single adult that doesn't know that meat was once part of a living animal.

What is this argument that keeps coming back about people not killing their own food? We don't have to, that's why we don't. If it was necessary, a lot more people would do it.

[G7PSK]

They put arsenic into chicken food to make them grow quicker, the FDA used to argue that the arsenic was excreted by the chickens although they now admit not all of it is, but the chicken manure is turned into cattle feed so cows then eat the remaining arsenic then that is turned into hamburgers. Another interesting fact about factory produced food, mechanically recovered meat  is made using the whole animal feathers beak guts and all in the case of chicken and hoof hide guts etc for cows, there is then so much bacteria in the meat that it is treated with ammonia, the resultant goo has no color and tastes disgusting so color and flavorings are added, very often these days they will use flavorings and color from vegetable origins just so the marketing people can put no artificial color or flavorings are used in this product you will also see labels stating 100% pure beef or chicken what they mean is 100% of the chicken or cow lock stock and barrel.

Who are they? They the enemy of crackpot video producers? Gullibility index of 101. The FDA just turned a blind eye did they? and it's been going on for years? Cattle hide Through your McBulge Burger. Sorry, but I call utter garbage and absolute exaggeration on that lot.

Pfizer though a division called Alpharm who make a supplement to be milled into chicken feed. Read this link:http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=13793945#.TyaIUMXsQsc

[Uncle Vernon]

Pfizer though a division called Alpharm who make a supplement to be milled into chicken feed. Read this link:http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=13793945#.TyaIUMXsQsc

yeah yeah and processed cheese is made of broken glass and razor blades. Sorry I still don't buy it. There is some horrid crud in mass produced food, and yes hygiene has taken a back seat in SOME instances. But I don't buy this guff about all food being poisoned regardless of it's at times dubious nutritional value.