Against factory farming

[EEVblog]

Everyone, especially Yanks, should watch Food Inc:


and also King of Corn.


Dave.

[EEVblog]

The solution is to stop eating meat. It takes ten times the resources to feed the same amount of people with a meat diet as it does to support those who are vegetarians.

Or simply chicken instead of red meat would make a massive difference in the amount of resources required.

Dave.

[G7PSK]

It is not the factory farming itself that is bad it is the inherent cruelty to animals that creeps in when over worked and under paid hands become desensitized to the suffering of their charges, The problem gets even worse in ever bigger factory slaughter houses where the workers are allowed only seconds on each operation, The stunning is where the worst atrocities occur due to the operator not having enough time to aim the bolt correctly so the animal goes onto the next stage not properly stunned to start the bleeding out and butchering process's. I have actually been into slaughter houses on many occasions when I worked for a company that made and serviced food processing machinery. Both small and large ones, In the small ones throughput was far slower and each animal was handled with consideration by people who knew what they were doing, in the larger ones the most important criteria of operation appeared to be how little you could pay your workers and how many animals which were always referred to as units could be processed in a given time with a total disregard to animal suffering or hygiene, I don,t know how some of these plants got past the health inspectors, I have taken the guards of machinery to find it crawling with maggots.
I am not a vegetarian but I will no longer eat processed meat or vegetables as I have seen the same in vegetable packing lines.   

[firewalker]

I grow up (the majority of children in Greece) in an environment that offered us everything home made. We had our chickens, our goats, our wheat e.t.c. We only had to buy pork and beef (from local producers with free grazing farms). When I firsk drunk milk from a box I was 15 or something.

My job requires constant contact with teenagers. I can see that city grown teens are double in size (muscular size) and taller than teens from the country. It's not normal. The food they consume...

We are what we eat.

Alexander.

[firewalker]

There is an urban legend (maybe true) that in a school (US I think) a teacher asked children to draw a picture with title "Where milk comes from". Many children draw a milk box.

Alexander.

[Psi]

I sometimes wonder, what percentage of people who eat meat could actually bring themselves to kill the animal, or put it through what goes on in factory farming.

Definitely not all of them.

Which kind of says something.

[Mint.]

If you wish to not consume meat, by all means, that is your right. But please, if you try to touch my steak, you will understand WHY the second amendment exists. And how much I support it.
For those who constantly talk about how bad modern farming practices are, well, have YOU ever tried to grow food? Not talking about the chia-herb garden on the window sill, but enough food to support your family? Or how about enough to sell to the local mom and pop grocery store so that all the folks who cannot or will not grow their own food can eat? Ever think about how much food it takes to feed a small town, let alone a large city? New York, or maybe Tokyo? Or London or Melbourne or any other?
I'm not arguing that all modern farming practices are the best or even good. But I would suggest that like in ANY OTHER industry, things are done the way they are for a reason. Not ALWAYS a good or beneficial reason, but there IS a reason behind it.
Just like many practices are common in EE because it is most efficient, or most profitable, or just produces the best quality product, so too can those reasons apply to farming.
But so few people even think about growing their own food anymore, that it has become an easy whipping-post industry.
For goodness sakes, one of the local dairies in WA state actually supplies MATRESSES for their cows, so the cow is more comfortable and produces better milk. Is the milk really better? Dunno. But my guess is it helps keep the Green Peace nuts at bay. No not all of them are nut-jobs. But the US government DOES classify Green Peace, or at least some of it's more radical branches, as a terrorist organization. What does THAT tell you?
Sorry for the mini-rant, but I grew up in a farming town. I don't claim to be a farmer, most we ever did was a garden and some chickens. BUT it bothers me when people that can't tell you what a corn stalk looks like try to complain that farmers are doing their job wrong.

100% Agree with you mate!

[SgtRock]

Greetings EEVBees:

--When you want to prove something, you can hardly to better than to cite Oprah. Remember it was Oprah who first noticed, the selfless love that the man with one glove had for children. It was Oprah who predicted 20 years ago, that the next 20 years would see 20 million heterosexual deaths from AIDS. And, do not forget all those highly credible books she reviewed on her shows.

--I would think the best way to promote food sources other that "Factory Food" would be to buy and eat the foods you like. If some of the people advocating for sudden changes in agricultural policy, and increased government control had their way the "Collective Farm" would soon obtain. Then it would be just a matter of selecting which version you prefer the Cuban or the Cambodian.

--The solution, in my opinion, lies in less government control not more. If you do not like companies like Monsanto and Archer Daniels Midland, would it not make sense for the US Government to stop giving them billions of taxpayer dollars for the Ethanol Ruse.

"I'll have the Alfalfa sandwich, and the smashed yeast"
Woody Allen 1935 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[siliconmix]

the worst thing that happened was myxomatosis.rabbit meat is nearly an organic product, freerange, low in fat and cholesterol.they live a very happy life except for the infection.they used to be plentiful(well they breed like rabbits).a really valuable food source.

[Kilroy]

I sometimes wonder, what percentage of people who eat meat could actually bring themselves to kill the animal, or put it through what goes on in factory farming. Definitely not all of them.

Definitely not most of them.

Which kind of says something.

It sure does. It says that when it comes to survival, folks have the stomach for consumption but not for preparation.

[8086]

I actually think that a lot of people would be prepared to kill an animal and prepare it themselves, if they absolutely had to.

But of course, mostly people don't need or choose to. I still think they would, though.

[slateraptor]

I sometimes wonder, what percentage of people who eat meat could actually bring themselves to kill the animal, or put it through what goes on in factory farming.

Definitely not all of them.

Which kind of says something.

Surely the indigenous population of your country, and the beef and lamb export industry which contributes a significant portion of NZ's continuing prosperity would have a few words to say as well.

Rewind the clock to a desensitized late 1800's society where food was neither as abundant nor readily available as it is today, then ask yourself the same question. Modern advancements of civilization have simply made life easy enough for vegetarians alike to disregard the biological fact that we're an omnivorous species--endowed with canines and a digestive system evolved to process a combination of both plants and meat.

Admittedly, my ethnic roots are indigenous to a wee little island half way across the world in the middle of the Pacific, where I grew up (I'm sure saturation can attest to just how ass-backwards it can be there); living off the land isn't a purely academic concept in my book, and the hardships of an agrarian life are all too familiar.

P.S. Rumor has it that good steak in India is about as common as good beer in Saudi...despite the fact that India's population of purpose-bred beasts of burden is comparable to the population of the entire US.

[SgtRock]

Greetings EEVBees:

--The people who want to outlaw "Factory Farming" seem to be exactly the same people who want the government to control every other aspect of life.

--If you thought proselytizing Vegetarians were a PITA, and if you thought proselytizing Vegans were a PITA, and if you thought proselytizing PITA members were a PITA, then meet the Jainists. The Jainists of India hold the undisputed record for sanctimonious finger waging and holier than thou breast beating. Not only are the strict adherents forbidden all meat, eggs, milk etc. but they are also forbidden to eat root vegetables and seeds. The holiest of this sect prefers to eat cooked vegetables that they obtain from infidels who have taken the sin of killing the hapless veggies themselves.

"I'll have the Alfalfa sandwich, and the smashed yeast"
Woody Allen 1935 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[Lightages]

Do we really need more personal bashing and racism here SgtRock? You managed to do all in one sentence.

[slateraptor]

Do we really need more personal bashing and racism here SgtRock? You managed to do all in one sentence.

His prose is agentless, with no reference to race whatsoever.

[Lightages]

--If you thought proselytizing Vegetarians were a PITA, and if you thought proselytizing Vegans were a PITA, and if you thought proselytizing PITA members were a PITA, then meet the Jainists.

This a backhanded insult towards me, a vegetarian, and a racist comment against the Jains, of which I know a few. I do not come here to see ignorant, racist, and inflammatory trolling. I thought this was a place to discuss things honestly and intelligently. Some people still think this is a place for personal vendettas and agendas. Subtle compared to some other trolling? Yes, but still trolling, or poorly considered wording. I would like to believe the latter but the history here indicates otherwise.

[8086]

a racist comment against the Jains

Sorry to butt in slightly, but isn't that a religion, not a race?

Why shouldn't someone be able to rubbish another's religion? It is a personal preference, after all. You just sound like a PC-brigade pansy to be honest.

[Lightages]

hmm, more personal attacks to disprove my assertion that personal attacks are going on.

Yes Jainism is a religion of sorts, more of a philosophy of life. If you ask a Jain, he will not call it a religion.

I apologize the the rest of the forum for getting involved here and continuing the off topic branch.  I certainly must be a pansy to do so.

[slateraptor]

This a backhanded insult towards me, a vegetarian, and a racist comment against the Jains, of which I know a few. I do not come here to see ignorant, racist, and inflammatory trolling. I thought this was a place to discuss things honestly and intelligently. Some people still think this is a place for personal vendettas and agendas. Subtle compared to some other trolling? Yes, but still trolling, or poorly considered wording. I would like to believe the latter but the history here indicates otherwise.

The comment was directed at an identifiable group, not an individual; that you take personal insult to sarcastic criticism is beyond the scope of this discussion. As far as I can discern, SgtRock has contributed an honest and subjectively humorous personal opinion which happens to be in direct contrast to your personal views.

For the sake of correctness, I will point out your ignorance of the fact that Jainism is a religious sect, not some racial identity.

[Lightages]

I guess I just don't have an appreciation for the humor of SgtRock. My fault in that case. Sorry.

And yes I knew that Jainism is considered a religious sect. I lived next door to a Jain family for 20 years and know what their perception is of their beliefs too.

Sometimes my skin is too thin which can be a very bad thing to have on the interwebs.

[Lightages]

I have just reviewed many posts made by SgtRock. I was mistaken in his tone in the message I was criticizing. I apologize for my outburst and stupidity. SgtRock is obviously not a racist and has a sense of humour, drier than I realized. Again, my apologies.

[SgtRock]

Dear Lightages:

Your apology is accepted and, I offer mine for any offense I may have unwittingly caused. Please see below the post I was just about to post before your latest.

--Please do not take personal offense, when none is intended. Notice I said "proselytizing" Vegans, Vegetarians, and PITA members. I have known quite a few Hindu's (of many shades of skin tone) over the years, and have found them to be just as literate, civilized, and cultured as the people I grew up among, and in many cases more so. They were inventing zero and counting infinities, when my ancestors were running around naked with their faces painted blue. I am sure that the Jainist practice of Ahimsa will allow for a little gentle finger poking at the riding of the high horse. Next time I will only refer to American Fundamentalist TV Preachers as being sanctimonious finger waggers and rattlesnake juggling sects as holier than thou breast beaters. That way I should be safe. And indeed I know that if ever I was starving to death, and was within inches of a box of chicken mcnuggets, and was discovered by a wandering Jainist Holy Man, he would no doubt immediately take off and try to borrow some already cooked vegetables from a sinner.

"I'll have the Alfalfa sandwich, and the smashed yeast"
Woody Allen 1935 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[nessatse]

It is not the factory farming itself that is bad it is the inherent cruelty to animals that creeps in when over worked and under paid hands become desensitized to the suffering of their charges, The problem gets even worse in ever bigger factory slaughter houses where the workers are allowed only seconds on each operation, The stunning is where the worst atrocities occur due to the operator not having enough time to aim the bolt correctly so the animal goes onto the next stage not properly stunned to start the bleeding out and butchering process's. I have actually been into slaughter houses on many occasions when I worked for a company that made and serviced food processing machinery. Both small and large ones, In the small ones throughput was far slower and each animal was handled with consideration by people who knew what they were doing, in the larger ones the most important criteria of operation appeared to be how little you could pay your workers and how many animals which were always referred to as units could be processed in a given time with a total disregard to animal suffering or hygiene, I don,t know how some of these plants got past the health inspectors, I have taken the guards of machinery to find it crawling with maggots.
I am not a vegetarian but I will no longer eat processed meat or vegetables as I have seen the same in vegetable packing lines.   

I agree totally.  I am not a vegetarian either, but watching movies like Food Inc. has given me plenty to think about.  I would urge anyone concerned with the ethical treatment of animals to watch 'Earthlings' as well  www.earthlings.com.  Guaranteed to make you think

[siliconmix]

i know i'm moving slightly off target here but why stop at certain species for consumption.guinea pigs,
cats,dogs and spiders are all eaten in certain countries.whats the difference.not that i'd eat them.a few miles from me a person found an electronic identity chip in her chicken fried rice from the local chinese takeaway.the data was still readable the meat came from a ginger tom named "ging" whoose owner had recently passed away.what a turn up.not the way i wanna eat pussy...meh

[ronwoch]

^^ Interesting that many of (what I consider) legitimate complaints stem from the processing of food, not necessarily the growing of it. That is, people object to the way the animals are treated at slaughter, how the (aforementioned) meat and vegetable processing plants handle food, etc. I know that in some areas these overlap with the actuall farming industry, and in other areas they are seperate industries. Which I think should be kept in mind. I know where I grew up, the food is all shipped from the farms to seperate processing plants. The farmer has little say in how it is handled at that point, only who handles it.
How many people could kill the animal they eat? I can only speak for myself, and say that I can. Not everyone though. I grew up hunting, and was taught to only kill what I need, as humanely as possible. Obviously this does not always happen in 'industrialized' settings.
Either way, I guess my babbling boils down to this:
That growing food vs. processing food are in general two very different topics.
Just something I have noticed.