Against factory farming

[NiHaoMike]

http://www.afro.com/sections/news/Washington/story.htm?storyid=73732
http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/factoryfarming/
http://www.oprah.com/world/Health-Risks-That-Large-Factory-Farming-Leaves-Behind
Do your own research on factory farming and you'll discover just how bad it is on the environment and public health. So is anyone else here against factory farming?

[slateraptor]

Let's get rid of factory farming...then we'll stipulate the law in such a way that those who voted to eradicate the practice won't receive ration cards.

[NiHaoMike]

As illogical as it may sound, there would actually be more food to go around if there wasn't factory farming. You'll be surprised how much land it really takes to support a factory farm.

[slateraptor]

I beg to differ. The notion immediately suggests that mass production in general is an inefficient process. Oprah appears to have compromised your reasoning faculties.

[IanB]

NiHaoMike is right. There is actually no need for factory farming to support the current population of western countries. The primary purpose is to concentrate money with rich people. In Europe farmers are paid to not grow stuff on their land and by strange contradiction are even fined for producing too much.

The USA has such a vastly lower ratio of population to farmland that the overproduction problem is even greater. However, the US government does a good job of hiding it because the likes of Monsanto and Cargill would be very upset if the truth ever got out.

[NiHaoMike]

I beg to differ. The notion immediately suggests that mass production in general is an inefficient process.

The point is that it's a lot more efficient to just directly grow crops to make food instead of growing crops to supply a factory farm to supply food. You're bypassing a rather inefficient step.

NiHaoMike is right. There is actually no need for factory farming to support the current population of western countries. The primary purpose is to concentrate money with rich people. In Europe farmers are paid to not grow stuff on their land and by strange contradiction are even fined for producing too much.

The USA has such a vastly lower ratio of population to farmland that the overproduction problem is even greater. However, the US government does a good job of hiding it because the likes of Monsanto and Cargill would be very upset if the truth ever got out.

The solution is to raise awareness.

[Uncle Vernon]

Do your own research on factory farming and you'll discover just how bad it is on the environment and public health.

Own research? Research or gullible consumption of some popularised opinions from actors & poets?

A blanket declaration that factory farming is bad is just as ignorant as this idea that all fossil fuel is bad. It's the emotive claptrap of those with vested interests. Research goes a little further than a collection of supportive argument, popular thinking in 2012 is more and more resembling the witch hunt mentality of the dark and middle ages.

I'm not arguing for or against factory farming simply because it's a nonsense to suggest there is any single readily definable model. Same apples to fossil fuel with a lobbying left thwarting the possibility of upgrading existing plant to modern less polluting design in favour of idealism. Higher prices with none of the promised economic gain, not to much actual research is happening.

FFS, if Oprah said breathing was bad, most of America's clueless would begin holding their collective breath. Oprah is the fodder of the mass clueless, reseach by tabloid television.
An infomercial pathway to the one eyed research of the highest payer. Its the modern day equivalence of the medieval witch hunt, the difference being that the public can now be told what to think from the comfort of their sofa.

[PeteInTexas]

I beg to differ. The notion immediately suggests that mass production in general is an inefficient process.

The point is that it's a lot more efficient to just directly grow crops to make food instead of growing crops to supply a factory farm to supply food. You're bypassing a rather inefficient step.

NiHaoMike is right. There is actually no need for factory farming to support the current population of western countries. The primary purpose is to concentrate money with rich people. In Europe farmers are paid to not grow stuff on their land and by strange contradiction are even fined for producing too much.

The USA has such a vastly lower ratio of population to farmland that the overproduction problem is even greater. However, the US government does a good job of hiding it because the likes of Monsanto and Cargill would be very upset if the truth ever got out.

The solution is to raise awareness.

The solution is to eat less.  I'm looking at your fat ass America!

[PeteInTexas]

A blanket declaration that factory farming is bad is just as ignorant as this idea that all fossil fuel is bad.

Can you name a fossil fuel consumed in commericial quantities that is good?

[Lightages]

The solution is to stop eating meat. It takes ten times the resources to feed the same amount of people with a meat diet as it does to support those who are vegetarians. Please don't ask me to cite references for the figure. It would take a few days to dig it all up again.

[Uncle Vernon]

Can you name a fossil fuel consumed in commercial quantities that is good?

How about coal! The burning of which has contributed to much of the comfort and good health of western populations.

I am not for a moment suggesting current levels of consumption are desirable or sustainable in the longer term. But I've had a gutful of the current irresponsible, idealistic and expensive nonsense that is being put about.
It's the stuff of the clueless and the hypocrite, the back to the caves rhetoric of Dr's Wives and the chronically clueless. Junk science that offers no real solution to anything.

[slateraptor]

The point is that it's a lot more efficient to just directly grow crops to make food instead of growing crops to supply a factory farm to supply food. You're bypassing a rather inefficient step.

An overwhelming majority of chicken, beef and pork sold at supermarkets are factory farmed. Milk and eggs--factory farmed. Salmon, tilapia, catfish, shrimp--factory farmed. Even fruits and vegetables--factory farmed and genetically enhanced.

How about necessity of fertile land? Land nutrient replenishment? Time vested cultivating? Seasonal changes? Failed harvest? Economic snowballing?

Japan has approximately 127 million citizens living on real estate the size of California.
China is the #1 global producer of rice, most of which never leaves their country.
The UK imports ~40% of its food supplies.

The problem isn't factory farming...it's overpopulation. We've only managed to grow our population this much because factory farming is an inherently efficient process. Furthermore, society has managed to advance so much because we didn't have to worry about the above mentioned agrarian hardships.

A harsh reality of being able to sustain an overpopulated world? Absolutely.
Inefficient? Absolutely not.

There is actually no need for factory farming to support the current population of western countries.

And how do you propose to sustain the "eastern" countries that provide the imported goods that sustain Westerners?

[slateraptor]

The solution is to stop eating meat. It takes ten times the resources to feed the same amount of people with a meat diet as it does to support those who are vegetarians. Please don't ask me to cite references for the figure. It would take a few days to dig it all up again.

You're an omnivore.

[plunger]

There is a reason food is cheap in USA, factory farms FTW 

[Mint.]

Mike, this thread is for electrical related topics not for food. Go find another forum to spam in. I am sure that it says EEVblog Electronics Community Forum at the top and not something related to food.

[Uncle Vernon]

Mike, this thread is for electrical related topics not for food. Go find another forum to spam in. I am sure that it says EEVblog Electronics Community Forum at the top and not something related to food.

General Chat : This is where everyone hangs out and rants and chats about whatever electronics topics that don't fit into the other more specific categories on this forum. Occasional off-topic stuff is ok, but generally we like to keep it electronics related.

Sorry mint but the topic is hardly spamming or in breach of forum etiquette.  Don't like, don't read, just thumb through to the next topic of interest.

[kaz911]

The solution is to stop eating meat. It takes ten times the resources to feed the same amount of people with a meat diet as it does to support those who are vegetarians. Please don't ask me to cite references for the figure. It would take a few days to dig it all up again.

unfortunately it is hard to bring up kids on a pure veggie diet. It requires well educated parents and high quality veggies to make certain they get the right mix to and not got get protein or vitamin deficiencies. My belief is to let kids decide for themselves if they want to be vegetarians. If parents try to force kids to a vegetarian diet - it can quite easily backfire once they turn teenagers.

But the 10 times figure is a bit on the high side. :-) Growing vegetables is not easy on the environment either.

But if you want to invest in the stock market - anything food and water related will be goldmines in the years to come due to over population.

[Mint.]

Mike, this thread is for electrical related topics not for food. Go find another forum to spam in. I am sure that it says EEVblog Electronics Community Forum at the top and not something related to food.

General Chat : This is where everyone hangs out and rants and chats about whatever electronics topics that don't fit into the other more specific categories on this forum. Occasional off-topic stuff is ok, but generally we like to keep it electronics related.

Sorry mint but the topic is hardly spamming or in breach of forum etiquette.  Don't like, don't read, just thumb through to the next topic of interest.

Yeah sorry I guess I was wrong.

[Psi]

...to make certain they get the right mix to and not got get protein or vitamin deficiencies.

lol, protein deficiency.

I've been vegetarian all my life and I eat too much protein
There's so many non-meat products that are full of protein from nut related foods to tofu, baked beans and vegetarian sausages.
Even just having two sandwiches (4 slices of brown bread) has 1/2 of your daily protein.

Interesting fact - Potatoes are a good source of iron, (more than spinach) and its the type of iron your body can easily absorb too.
One potato is about 10% RDI
 

[Mint.]

Maybe we should start having our meals in small pills that have all the nutrients. We just swallow them and we are full and don't want to eat. Then we have don't have any problems with factory farms and vegetable farms and fruit farms all all the other farms...

[Psi]

Maybe we should start having our meals in small pills that have all the nutrients. We just swallow them and we are full and don't want to eat. Then we have don't have any problems with factory farms and vegetable farms and fruit farms all all the other farms...

StarTrek food replicators,  it's the only answer.

[Mint.]

Maybe we should start having our meals in small pills that have all the nutrients. We just swallow them and we are full and don't want to eat. Then we have don't have any problems with factory farms and vegetable farms and fruit farms all all the other farms...

StarTrek food replicators,  it's the only answer.

Thats right!

[kaz911]

...to make certain they get the right mix to and not got get protein or vitamin deficiencies.

lol, protein deficiency.

I've been vegetarian all my life and I eat too much protein
There's so many non-meat products that are full of protein from nut related foods to tofu, baked beans and vegetarian sausages.
Even just having two sandwiches (4 slices of brown bread) has 1/2 of your daily protein.

Interesting fact - Potatoes are a good source of iron, (more than spinach) and its the type of iron your body can easily absorb too.
One potato is about 10% RDI

yes but you do not seem to be in the "no smart category" - but there are lot of not so smart parents out there - being vegetarian does not automatically make you smart. :-)

[Psi]

...to make certain they get the right mix to and not got get protein or vitamin deficiencies.

lol, protein deficiency.

I've been vegetarian all my life and I eat too much protein
There's so many non-meat products that are full of protein from nut related foods to tofu, baked beans and vegetarian sausages.
Even just having two sandwiches (4 slices of brown bread) has 1/2 of your daily protein.

Interesting fact - Potatoes are a good source of iron, (more than spinach) and its the type of iron your body can easily absorb too.
One potato is about 10% RDI

yes but you do not seem to be in the "no smart category" - but there are lot of not so smart parents out there - being vegetarian does not automatically make you smart. :-)

hehe yeah, If only

[ronwoch]

If you wish to not consume meat, by all means, that is your right. But please, if you try to touch my steak, you will understand WHY the second amendment exists. And how much I support it.
For those who constantly talk about how bad modern farming practices are, well, have YOU ever tried to grow food? Not talking about the chia-herb garden on the window sill, but enough food to support your family? Or how about enough to sell to the local mom and pop grocery store so that all the folks who cannot or will not grow their own food can eat? Ever think about how much food it takes to feed a small town, let alone a large city? New York, or maybe Tokyo? Or London or Melbourne or any other?
I'm not arguing that all modern farming practices are the best or even good. But I would suggest that like in ANY OTHER industry, things are done the way they are for a reason. Not ALWAYS a good or beneficial reason, but there IS a reason behind it.
Just like many practices are common in EE because it is most efficient, or most profitable, or just produces the best quality product, so too can those reasons apply to farming.
But so few people even think about growing their own food anymore, that it has become an easy whipping-post industry.
For goodness sakes, one of the local dairies in WA state actually supplies MATRESSES for their cows, so the cow is more comfortable and produces better milk. Is the milk really better? Dunno. But my guess is it helps keep the Green Peace nuts at bay. No not all of them are nut-jobs. But the US government DOES classify Green Peace, or at least some of it's more radical branches, as a terrorist organization. What does THAT tell you?
Sorry for the mini-rant, but I grew up in a farming town. I don't claim to be a farmer, most we ever did was a garden and some chickens. BUT it bothers me when people that can't tell you what a corn stalk looks like try to complain that farmers are doing their job wrong.