absurd marketing bullshittery

[SiliconWizard]

I'm not going to get into this "gluten free"  thing in particular, but I'm sure many people would be surprised to know the whole list of ingredients of typical food and how you would never have suspected some ingredients to be in there in the first place. Of course one of the most common is added sugar in just about everything. Do people naturally expect significant amounts of sugar in salty food? Yet it's there. But the list is endless.

Of course there is also hype around alleged "better" industrial food. Still industrial shit.

And some mentions are there just to help people choose their food based on the assumption that they might actually not know what food contains and why. It may sound obvious to you that lettuce is lactose or gluten free, but how many people actually know what lactose (or better yet, gluten) really is?

[TimFox]

Kellogg's "Special K" cereal looks like a rice cereal that would therefore be gluten-free, but "wheat gluten" is actually the second ingredient on the list, after rice.
https://www.specialk.com/en_US/products/cereal/original-cereal.html
US regulations require ingredients to be listed in order of fractional quantity.
Just like one should read the manual, one should read the ingredient list if there be a problem.
Kellogg's "Rice Krispies" contain malt, so they are not labeled "gluten-free".
https://www.kelloggs.com/en_US/nutrition/are-rice-krispies-gluten-free.html

[Zero999]

Of course it's gluten free. it doesn't contain any wheat or other grains that contain glutenin.

 

They might as well put things like "Does not contain elephants" or "Comes without steering wheel"

what's next ?
A bag of salad that says "Vegan friendly" ?
A bag of rice that says "No cows inside" ?

post your marketing bullshittery gripes below. i'm curious to see what other bullshittery is out there.

It's not bullshittery, a coeliac friend really opened my eyes to foods that *shouldn't* contain gluten but often do without listing on the ingredients (grated cheese for instance)

Having 'Gluten Free' on a packet is a written guarantee it is indeed gluten free so a coeliac can grab a snack without having to pore over the ingredients list or worry that there's somehting that's not listed or the product has been contaminated by another process in the same factory.

Few people with coeliac disease are so sensitive to gluten, the tiniest trace would cause them severe harm. An ex-girlfriend was gluten intolerant. At first she was really paranoid about it, but soon discovered traces weren't an issue. It's true there are degrees of severity and it's always better to err on the side of caution.

Nowadays I believe there's a gluten free food checker app available, but it might be too strict for many people.

[Gyro]

I was munching on a bag of chips. Ingredients : Potato , safflower oil , salt.
In big bold lettering on the front of the package : Gluten free
Of course it's gluten free. it doesn't contain any wheat or other grains that contain glutenin.

 

They might as well put things like "Does not contain elephants" or "Comes without steering wheel"

what's next ?
A bag of salad that says "Vegan friendly" ?
A bag of rice that says "No cows inside" ?

post your marketing bullshittery gripes below. i'm curious to see what other bullshittery is out there.

No it absolutely isn't bullshittery. I suffer from Coeliac disease, it isn't a gluten alergy, it is an autoimune condition. Exposure to gluten causes a T-Cell immune reaction which strips the vilii off the internal surface of the gut (causing so called smooth gut'), drastically reducing its surface area and so, ability to absorb nutrients. It can manifest in a number of confusing ways, often delaying diagnosis. If it goes undiagnosed for many decades, it leads to increased risk of small bowel T-Cell Lymphoma. After a bad gluten hit, it can take several months for the gut to fully heal which can be detected in by blood tests over that time.

Anyone who says that gluten free labelling is bullshittery should be made undergo the tests for Coeliac, which include several rather unpleasant endoscopies and small bowel biopsies, both to confirm the diagnosis and to ensure that the gluten free diet is working effectively. I have mixed feelings about people who diagnose themselves from womens [EDIT: lifestyle] magazines (sorry, I can't immediately think of a gender neutral term for such publications). I'm sure some of these people must have some form of gluten intolerance or alergy, but if they believe they are, then they should have it medically confirmed (to avoid potentially life threatening problems later) and be forced to follow a strict absolute gluten free diet, rather than a faddy one. At the same time, such interest has vastly improved the variety of gluten free food compared to what there was 20odd years ago when I was finally diagnosed. Back then, the only way to establish gluten free status was to look individual products up on a register, such as the Coeliac UK book (and as Zero999 says, the app too now).

Ingredients marking is still a nightmare but much improved, as is stability. As Pringles were mentioned above - once upon a time they used to be gluten free...then they weren't. No warning on the packaging, they just changed the ingredients one day. The same with many other manufacturers' products - you have to check each time. A hint, if you want decent English Mustard, buy the Colemans powdered in the tin - if you buy the glass jar you will find they have mixed it with glutenous shit! Porridge oats are ok for most (not all) Coeliacs, but did you know that a small proportion of wheat tends to seed among the crop too? You need the gluten free one.

Then you come to the unmarked products or the "May contain" / "Produced in a factory that also manufactures..."  These are the ones where they just don't care, have ordinary wheat flour dust floating in the air, or run various products through their machines without cleaning them fully first (that one is a nightmare for people with potentially fatal nut, egg, etc. allergies too). The whole thing is a nightmare (particularly for the recently diagnosed) where actually having products specified as gluten free helps immensly.

So Mr free_electron, please excuse me if I tell you to take your "absurd marketing bullshittery" and stick it where the sun don't shine. You know not of what you speak.

[nightfire]

Also maybe of interest: At least in germany/EU law, some stuff is allowed not to be declared, when it is below a certain threshold and deemed a helper ingredient- like anti-clogging additives for flour, for example...
I had a colleague, that was very gluten sensitive, and another has problems with histamin allergy- and those told me lots of stories that in ready-made food lots of hidden ingredients are there, but came through the backdoor with some other ingredient and are therefore not declared in plain.

So apart from being able to read through ingredient lists, having some simple label on a bag of whatever stuff looks nice that declares it to be free of $incompatible_stuff, is for some people a certain decision maker- or reminds them of "hey, last time I had some tasty chips was long ago, lets take them"
And to be honest: If brands do not matter, and I stand in front of a display or rack with different brands, and one of them has clearly labelled to be free of stuff I do not want in my food, the other brand does not have that big label, and prices are in an equal range, my buying decision will automatically swing to the labelled one- simply because it saves me the effort to read the ingredient list...

Example from about two weeks ago: Went to a supermarket with a colleague, to fetch some beer and snacks to hang out later that evening. He told me some time ago, that he has issues with lots of chips, but the Pringles original version are fine with him (only salted). I then looked for other things, and asked if he determined what ingredient in that stuff he is not fine with, and he explained that it basically was trial and error to find out. After looking on a bag of tortillas (organic), and doing some work convincing him that there is nothing in there that is also not present in the Pringles version deemed good, we went for it- and now he is absolutely hooked on that stuff...
Means: Not everyone really reads (and understands) what the ingredient list means...

[emece67]

.

[free_electron]

No it absolutely isn't bullshittery. I suffer from Coeliac disease, it isn't a gluten alergy, it is an autoimune condition. Exposure to gluten causes a T-Cell immune reaction which strips the vilii off the internal surface of the gut (causing so called smooth gut'), drastically reducing its

Will you read what i wrote please ?

INGREDIENTS : POTATO , SALT , SAFFLOWER OIL
Where are the gluten ?

I don't deny there are people with severe gluten allergies , and am fully in favor of making sure they are aware what could cause them harm and make it easier for them to pick the right foods.
But this bold :"gluten free"  (it's larger than the other text on the front of the packaging!) on something that cannot contain gluten is just ... why ? You made allusions to "self diagnosed" people after reading certain magazines. That's what that is for. They don't care about the people who really have a health problem. They use (abuse) it to fetch the gullible ones ( which is a much larger target group than the group that really has a medical condition)

You buy a bottle of cranberry juice.
Label says 100% juice, but 80% is apple juice. Well, it said juice ... it should say 100% Cranberry juice (and there are such products , but most of them are 100%juice category)

And there's those fruit drink pouches for kids ( does not contain actual juice)

More technical now
Deoxit. There's D5 and D100.
a 0.85 oz can of deoxit D5 is 16$  : https://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT-D5-Spray-percent-S-CD5S-2/dp/B098831JTS/ref=sr_1_10?crid=FKMVMFIKT53X&keywords=deoxit+d5&qid=1653332059&sprefix=deoxit+d5%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-10
a 2 oz can of deoxit D100 is 24$ : https://www.amazon.com/CAIG-DeoxIT-D100S-2-Spray-oz/dp/B01IYPTZ3K/ref=sr_1_9?crid=1KP7UZEZKWEDO&keywords=deoxit+d100&qid=1653332193&sprefix=deoxit+d100%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-9

So i get more than double the product for only 50% more cost... but ... d5 contains 5% actual product in a solvent. D100 is pure . So i get 40 times more actual product (20 times more concentrate times volume, actually closer to 50 times more)
This is just ridiculous.

We live in a world where everything has to be politically correct but at the same time is so full of loopholes it is all noise. you can't trust anything.
At the same time we are being bombarded with superfluous information and statements that are technically correct, but have no meaning.

[Gyro]

No it absolutely isn't bullshittery. I suffer from Coeliac disease, it isn't a gluten alergy, it is an autoimune condition. Exposure to gluten causes a T-Cell immune reaction which strips the vilii off the internal surface of the gut (causing so called smooth gut'), drastically reducing its

Will you read what i wrote please ?

INGREDIENTS : POTATO , SALT , SAFFLOWER OIL
Where are the gluten ?

As emece67 just pointed out, the oil that they are fried in (I was once told in a chip shop that "the heat kills it" when I asked if their chips were fried in the same oil as they used for battered fish  ). Packaging and processing equipment etc. - Did you not read what I wrote?

EDIT:

I don't deny there are people with severe gluten allergies , and am fully in favor of making sure they are aware what could cause them harm and make it easier for them to pick the right foods.
But this bold :"gluten free"  (it's larger than the other text on the front of the packaging!)...

Have you any idea how long it takes to read through the ingredients of every processed food product you buy (and then search for the 'May contain traces... disclaimer)?

[CJay]

It's not bullshittery, a coeliac friend really opened my eyes to foods that *shouldn't* contain gluten but often do without listing on the ingredients (grated cheese for instance)

ingredients : potato , safflower oil, salt . Tell me , what parts contain gluten ?

A lot of this stuff is hype. look our product is this and that. Many people latch on to the buzzword du jour...

This bag of lettuce is lactose free , gluten free , vegan / vegetarian / ovo-pescatarian and omnivore approved. Not for fruitarians.

Did you perhaps misunderstand this bit of my post which you quoted? 

"but often do without listing on the ingredients".

Yes, it's often buzzword wankery and yes, it's often 'wellness' bullshit from 'lifestyle gurus' but it's still incredibly useful for people who suffer with genuine, medically diagnosed allergies and intolerances.

I fail to understand why having more information that may help people upsets you so much?

[CJay]

Also maybe of interest: At least in germany/EU law, some stuff is allowed not to be declared, when it is below a certain threshold and deemed a helper ingredient- like anti-clogging additives for flour, for example...
Means: Not everyone really reads (and understands) what the ingredient list means...

Yup, hash browns, shouldn't contain any gluten at all but a certain well known UK brand uses flour to make them an attractive golden brown colour when fried, and guess what, it's not listed in the ingredients because it's below some defined percentage of the total, an ex of mine found out the hard way, she suffered for that breakfast.

Which harks back to my point, having more information about food ingredients and/or a bold declaration of 'xxxxxxxx free' is damned useful.

[MrMobodies]

Also, "Wackaging", where every company VASTLY over-compensates for mediocre product, by making their foods "talk" to us, as if we're "friends" more like we're stupid and confused and don't know what we're doing.

Hey companies, here's an idea - focus on the BASICS and cut the crap - tell us what's inside, and don't "make it talk".

Back in the old days, when people actually USED their brains, they weren't treated like morons to talk down to... well, not AS much.

I remembered in late 1999 at a school I didn't like the noname detergent that caused marks all over my clothes and it had this unpleasant smell so I went to the supermarket and brought a few things and one of them was these Persil tablets. Worked as advertised. Cleaned the clothes and didn't leave much marks and that was it. It had a small scent but I didn't mind that.

About two years later they disappeared for a couple of weeks, I couldn't find them selling in most supermarkets or shops but managed to pick some up from some convenience store. When they returned in the masses, they had this fancy new packaging and decorations with "New improved" blah blah blah all over it and I noticed a change in appearance of the tablets with the multi coloured rings around them.

I didn't think anything of it. When I used one and after the washing it had this really strong scent and I was not happy about that. I had to rinse and rewash again without any detergent. I complained and I vaguely remembered the response I got was that it was part of their new "branding" and if I am unhappy with it just to take it back to where I got it from for a full refund and choose something else.

Felt very insulted. The job of these things are to clean the clothes nothing more.
Instead I felt used a billboard for their product attracting unnecessary and unwanted attention.
I couldn't tolerate having the air around me polluted with it and the distraction with the strong scent.

I tried a few others but settled for a liquid thing that was a little more expensive.

Now I see many have this scent so I have it washed without detergent and also they make me itch.

The good thing is from this experience I take marketing bullshit seriously when I detect it. When I read certain words in a certain combination I tend to get suspicious. Say they cheapen something and make it inferior but make the makerting materials look prettier and trendier as if that would make the buyer happier, put all fancy words in there where I have get a dictionary out to find it is utter meaningless.

[Zero999]

I was munching on a bag of chips. Ingredients : Potato , safflower oil , salt.
In big bold lettering on the front of the package : Gluten free
Of course it's gluten free. it doesn't contain any wheat or other grains that contain glutenin.

 

They might as well put things like "Does not contain elephants" or "Comes without steering wheel"

what's next ?
A bag of salad that says "Vegan friendly" ?
A bag of rice that says "No cows inside" ?

post your marketing bullshittery gripes below. i'm curious to see what other bullshittery is out there.

No it absolutely isn't bullshittery. I suffer from Coeliac disease, it isn't a gluten alergy, it is an autoimune condition. Exposure to gluten causes a T-Cell immune reaction which strips the vilii off the internal surface of the gut (causing so called smooth gut'), drastically reducing its surface area and so, ability to absorb nutrients. It can manifest in a number of confusing ways, often delaying diagnosis. If it goes undiagnosed for many decades, it leads to increased risk of small bowel T-Cell Lymphoma. After a bad gluten hit, it can take several months for the gut to fully heal which can be detected in by blood tests over that time.

Anyone who says that gluten free labelling is bullshittery should be made undergo the tests for Coeliac, which include several rather unpleasant endoscopies and small bowel biopsies, both to confirm the diagnosis and to ensure that the gluten free diet is working effectively. I have mixed feelings about people who diagnose themselves from womens [EDIT: lifestyle] magazines (sorry, I can't immediately think of a gender neutral term for such publications). I'm sure some of these people must have some form of gluten intolerance or alergy, but if they believe they are, then they should have it medically confirmed (to avoid potentially life threatening problems later) and be forced to follow a strict absolute gluten free diet, rather than a faddy one. At the same time, such interest has vastly improved the variety of gluten free food compared to what there was 20odd years ago when I was finally diagnosed. Back then, the only way to establish gluten free status was to look individual products up on a register, such as the Coeliac UK book (and as Zero999 says, the app too now).

Ingredients marking is still a nightmare but much improved, as is stability. As Pringles were mentioned above - once upon a time they used to be gluten free...then they weren't. No warning on the packaging, they just changed the ingredients one day. The same with many other manufacturers' products - you have to check each time. A hint, if you want decent English Mustard, buy the Colemans powdered in the tin - if you buy the glass jar you will find they have mixed it with glutenous shit! Porridge oats are ok for most (not all) Coeliacs, but did you know that a small proportion of wheat tends to seed among the crop too? You need the gluten free one.

Then you come to the unmarked products or the "May contain" / "Produced in a factory that also manufactures..."  These are the ones where they just don't care, have ordinary wheat flour dust floating in the air, or run various products through their machines without cleaning them fully first (that one is a nightmare for people with potentially fatal nut, egg, etc. allergies too). The whole thing is a nightmare (particularly for the recently diagnosed) where actually having products specified as gluten free helps immensly.

So Mr free_electron, please excuse me if I tell you to take your "absurd marketing bullshittery" and stick it where the sun don't shine. You know not of what you speak.

That makes perfect sense.

In the case of my ex, she found it was cumulative. The odd little bit, every now and then wasn't a bit problem, but if she was too lax, for too long, there were severe consequences. I think also small concentrations over long periods were just as bad, i.e. if she ate chips fried in the same oil as battered fish for one meal a week and was good for the other meals it wasn't an issue, but if she were to eat like that every day, she would slowly deteriorate. It's a weird disease and can be very difficult to manage. Your mileage may vary.

[free_electron]

Packaging and processing equipment etc. - Did you not read what I wrote?

yes i did. company makes chips. only chips. but, granted there are others.

Have you any idea how long it takes to read through the ingredients of every processed food product you buy (and then search for the 'May contain traces... disclaimer)?

Granted. the lists these days are long (do we really need all that crap in our food ?)
I agree having upfront warnings are great but that raises the question : where do we stop ? Peanut allergy ? (they can use peanut oil to make fries ..) . Certain anti foaming agents used can cause severe reactions.

Soon on a package of chips near you : Gluten free, peanut oil free , olestra free , soy free , vegetarian (fries can be made in animal fat) ... see where this is headed ?
We live in a reverse world . The front says nothing, the ingredient list on the other hand...
The other problem is consistency. Brand a clearly labels their product "gluten free", other brands don't. And their products may very well be gluten free as well. Do you really think they do it out of compassion towards people who suffer from gluten allergy ? What is the size of that audience ? I mean the people who actually have a gluten problem versus the group who thinks they have a gluten problem ? That's my "irritation" .

Read the following attentively (there is a danger i will get flamed again) : Any new "fad" that comes along is picked up for marketing. I AM NOT CALLING GLUTEN ALLERGY A FAD ! i'm saying that there is so much buzz these days (like said before : by certain "specialist" magazines") that people start believing all kinds of things and start doing all kinds of things. Marekting picks that up very quickly and exploits it. That is what irks me.

We live in a world where people go to the doctor asking (mandating) for all kinds of medications "cause they saw a commercial on tv". but doctor it hurts everywhere , it must be severe ! it hurts if i push here, and there , and there and there and there , anywhere and everywhere. In reality it turns out their finger is broken....

I'd rather have a complete ingredients list without omission of anything. If that list is as long as my arm : ditch it...

I was reading the label on some prepackaged bread ... you need a phd in chemistry to unravel what the hell is in that. if i make bread it's whole wheat flour (none of the bleached, enriched monthiamin crap) water , yeast (no aluminum-whatever) , a pinch of salt and a pinch of sugar (to start the yeast) . My mom used to go to the local mill to buy flour ( there was a farm closeby that had a windmill. The farmer harvested wheat at the end of summer , ground it in the windmill. the only additives you would find in that flour would be an accidental unfortunate bug that got ground down by the millstones.)

[MikeK]

Of course one of the most common is added sugar in just about everything. Do people naturally expect significant amounts of sugar in salty food? Yet it's there. But the list is endless.

One thing I never expected to have sugar added was packaged bacon.  Totally surprised me when I saw it recently.  (I don't think I've looked at the ingredients before).  So I bought the one without sugar added and guess what?....It tastes like bacon!  I'm wondering if the sugar is added to balance the salty taste.

[MikeK]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as marketing BS, but I've seen directions posted on a package of a bathtub drain plug.  Really!  How could someone not know how to use it?...Why would they be buying it if they didn't?

[Someone]

Wait until the OP discovers kosher/halal/ital labeling. Some people want to be advertised to, the market decided it was too big to ignore so it ended up on the front of the packet rather than hidden in a footnote on the rear.

[nightfire]

Of course one of the most common is added sugar in just about everything. Do people naturally expect significant amounts of sugar in salty food? Yet it's there. But the list is endless.

One thing I never expected to have sugar added was packaged bacon.  Totally surprised me when I saw it recently.  (I don't think I've looked at the ingredients before).  So I bought the one without sugar added and guess what?....It tastes like bacon!  I'm wondering if the sugar is added to balance the salty taste.

Sugar is a natural taste intensifier, and can help (by drawing some water) with drying bacon.
Yes, bad world, as sugar is not considered something you have (legally) to declare for its taste intensifying abilities, so a producer could claim that it is "free of artificial intensifiers"

[CatalinaWOW]

I was munching on a bag of chips. Ingredients : Potato , safflower oil , salt.
In big bold lettering on the front of the package : Gluten free
Of course it's gluten free. it doesn't contain any wheat or other grains that contain glutenin.

 

They might as well put things like "Does not contain elephants" or "Comes without steering wheel"

what's next ?
A bag of salad that says "Vegan friendly" ?
A bag of rice that says "No cows inside" ?

post your marketing bullshittery gripes below. i'm curious to see what other bullshittery is out there.

The absurd marketing may be somewhat different than you think.  One of my kids friends has real and extreme gluten intolerance.  She can have a severe reaction from something like potato chips which nominally doesn't have gluten, but which has been processed in a facility which processes other gluten containing foods, or commonly, on the same process and packaging machines which processed another non-gluten free product.  For her there is a real and critical difference between a product which is truly gluten free and one which has no nominal gluten containing ingredients.  She literally has to call the production facilities for each product she eats and find what they mean by gluten free.  As you can imagine such conversations are not high on most producers priority list so this is a painful process.

Since gluten free is currently a fad, many products in the latter category are labeled gluten free.  The bullshittery is claiming a product is gluten free when technically it is low gluten content.  A more useful and honest label would never say gluten free, but would say guaranteed less than X ppm gluten.

There are peanut allergy sufferers who have similar issues.

[Ground_Loop]

I saw this disclaimer in an advertisement for legal services. A close paraphrase:  Not licensed to practice law in Montana, Iowa, Tennessee, Oregon, Maine, Florida, South Carolina, Delaware, Vermont, Arizona, or any other state.  My assumption is that they didn't think anyone would read the whole sentence. 

[free_electron]

just saw a package of cheese .. "contain milk and milk products"  no shit sherlock ! who'd have thought that that was even a remote possibility ? 

Now i've probably offended the politically correct lactose intolerant people. note : i'm not making fun of , nor denying the existence of lactose intolerant people. i know several personally. I can't imagine living a life without being able to enjoy an ice-cream( a real ice-cream made with eggs, cream, sugar and vanilla. none of that soy milk , guar gum , ground-up beetles vanilla flavor crap.) or yoghurt without having the trots for four days.

I'm just wondering why the hell a packet of cheese needs a label that says "contains milk". isn't that obvious ? its cheese ! And before you cry "what about plant based or soy based?". THAT AIN'T CHEESE ! that's a substitute.

Which is another one of the things i wonder about. "we need to eat plant based stuff. soy based bayon , beyond burger , tofy shaped like a t-bone, including a fake piece of bone... i can get that you don't like eating animals. fully understood. but why does it need to be made to LOOK LIKE MEAT ? I don't have my steak mashed up to look like a block of tofu or extruded to look like soybean sprouts. have a head of lettuce. it's actually made from processed pork chops.

[Ground_Loop]

I'm not going to get into this "gluten free"  thing in particular, but I'm sure many people would be surprised to know the whole list of ingredients of typical food and how you would never have suspected some ingredients to be in there in the first place. Of course one of the most common is added sugar in just about everything. Do people naturally expect significant amounts of sugar in salty food? Yet it's there. But the list is endless.

Of course there is also hype around alleged "better" industrial food. Still industrial shit.

And some mentions are there just to help people choose their food based on the assumption that they might actually not know what food contains and why. It may sound obvious to you that lettuce is lactose or gluten free, but how many people actually know what lactose (or better yet, gluten) really is?

I once developed an ingredient delivery and mixing system for Keebler Cookies. I found it interesting that if the label said sugar free there couldn't be a trace of sugar detectable. And we went to great mechanical and logical lengths to ensure a sugar free mix had undetectable amounts of sugar. On the other hand since none of the labels said 'bug free' the mix could legally contain insects...at least up to a point.

[MikeK]

just saw a package of cheese .. "contain milk and milk products"  no shit sherlock ! who'd have thought that that was even a remote possibility ?

That's because we now live in a world of fake cheese.  And in some cases it's more expensive than real cheese.

[free_electron]

just saw a package of cheese .. "contain milk and milk products"  no shit sherlock ! who'd have thought that that was even a remote possibility ?

That's because we now live in a world of fake cheese.  And in some cases it's more expensive than real cheese.

LOL. so true. cheese from a spray can... Somewhere in switzerland there is a cow yodeling mnoooooooooooooooo

[TimFox]

just saw a package of cheese .. "contain milk and milk products"  no shit sherlock ! who'd have thought that that was even a remote possibility ? 

Now i've probably offended the politically correct lactose intolerant people. note : i'm not making fun of , nor denying the existence of lactose intolerant people. i know several personally. I can't imagine living a life without being able to enjoy an ice-cream( a real ice-cream made with eggs, cream, sugar and vanilla. none of that soy milk , guar gum , ground-up beetles vanilla flavor crap.) or yoghurt without having the trots for four days.

I'm just wondering why the hell a packet of cheese needs a label that says "contains milk". isn't that obvious ? its cheese ! And before you cry "what about plant based or soy based?". THAT AIN'T CHEESE ! that's a substitute.

Which is another one of the things i wonder about. "we need to eat plant based stuff. soy based bayon , beyond burger , tofy shaped like a t-bone, including a fake piece of bone... i can get that you don't like eating animals. fully understood. but why does it need to be made to LOOK LIKE MEAT ? I don't have my steak mashed up to look like a block of tofu or extruded to look like soybean sprouts. have a head of lettuce. it's actually made from processed pork chops.

Was that actually a package of cheese, or "pasteurized process cheese food" or other industrial product?
https://www.delish.com/food-news/a46872/your-favorite-cheese-might-not-be-real/  has the legal definitions in the US for Velveeta-type products.

[free_electron]

Was that actually a package of cheese, or "pasteurized process cheese food" or other industrial product?

it was some goat cheese with blueberries. can't find the wrapper.