A tax on IE7 Users

[amyk]

I think the newer browsers aren't any better in terms of user experience, removing functionality  changing the UI too much and being more nannying. Forcing upgrades causes unnecessary work for users as they try to get everything working the way they wanted again. Websites that care about what browser you use should rethink their strategies. I have a tendency of just going back and looking somewhere else when a website complains about my environment. (If it's something that really can't be found somewhere else, then I switch user-agents to tell them whatever browser they want just to shut them up.)

http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/

It's all about standards compliance, not about supporting a specific platform. Most self respecting web developers don't care what browser you use, as long as the rendered pages look and work consistently within the parameters of W3C standards.

You can't do that with IE6 and 7.

Hacking support together to make pages work on superseded browsers is a waste of time, waste of money and eats into site maintenance costs. Furthermore, getting end users to upgrade will also benefit them with improved security on their machines.

If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. They don't have to go out of their way to specifically support IE6/7, but going out of their way to antagonise users just makes them more likely to leave. A lot of things naturally work in IE without special handling anyway, it's the more "advanced" (and arguably a bit overused these days) stuff that doesn't.

[Zero999]

I use Opera most of the time and Firefox at work.

[AntiProtonBoy]

If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. They don't have to go out of their way to specifically support IE6/7, but going out of their way to antagonise users just makes them more likely to leave. A lot of things naturally work in IE without special handling anyway, it's the more "advanced" (and arguably a bit overused these days) stuff that doesn't.

People in-the-know point out the problems and are eager to make positive changes in technology. They want to make the process of developing applications more robust and easier, which ultimately translates to developing superior applications, and making the end-user experience better.

Unfortunately most users are hopelessly clueless about the technical issues they are unknowingly part of (which is fair enough). Bad implementation of standards will continue to exist if no one takes the initiative to inform users. They won't see the benefit until the better alternative is directly in front of them. THEN hopefully they catch on why the alternative implementation is better. If that means alienating a few users that still live in the 1990's era, then so be it. Meanwhile the rest of the universe moves on. Of course, there are those who will never get it, no matter what you put in front of them. They just go along with what is being served. We call them sheep, and they must be herded for the good of mankind.

[vk6zgo]

If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. They don't have to go out of their way to specifically support IE6/7, but going out of their way to antagonise users just makes them more likely to leave. A lot of things naturally work in IE without special handling anyway, it's the more "advanced" (and arguably a bit overused these days) stuff that doesn't.

People in-the-know point out the problems and are eager to make positive changes in technology. They want to make the process of developing applications more robust and easier, which ultimately translates to developing superior applications, and making the end-user experience better.

Unfortunately most users are hopelessly clueless about the technical issues they are unknowingly part of (which is fair enough). Bad implementation of standards will continue to exist if no one takes the initiative to inform users. They won't see the benefit until the better alternative is directly in front of them. THEN hopefully they catch on why the alternative implementation is better. If that means alienating a few users that still live in the 1990's era, then so be it. Meanwhile the rest of the universe moves on. Of course, there are those who will never get it, no matter what you put in front of them. They just go along with what is being served. We call them sheep, and they must be herded for the good of mankind.

The thing is,most people couldn't give a rodent's exhaust port about Kogan,& what they do or don't do!

I also find it hard to believe that IE7 has very many users any more.

As  PCs  croak,& are replaced,they usually come out of the box with later versions of IE.
Being sheep,we just learn to  live with the newer,crippled versions of both operating systems & browsers!

[Monkeh]

I also find it hard to believe that IE7 has very many users any more.

Seemingly around 4-5% users still use IE7. That's rather a few million people.

[Mechatrommer]

being sheep is better and alot easier than being a competent programmer
you just wait to be slaughtered death.

[G7PSK]

My only issue with Chrome is the lack of Bookmarks button. I find it most annoying at times and it is almost impossible to find a decent plugin that does a reasonable job of it.

Regards

Its that little star in the right of the search bar, you can have as many folders as you like. I find that works for me, But of course its horses for courses, and what is good for one is not necessarily so for the next.

[T4P]

I also find it hard to believe that IE7 has very many users any more.

Seemingly around 4-5% users still use IE7. That's rather a few million people.

Not so surprising when you find out that 4-5% are technologically-inept or that they can't install any other browser
Or in the case of my school's computers they wipe their data every shutdown  (Reset to default)

[Uncle Vernon]

The thing is,most people couldn't give a rodent's exhaust port about Kogan,& what they do or don't do!

A lot more do now after this latest bit of fun. Most with a clue like what it says. Can't see his target Gerry Harvey and the old school retailers thinking of it. Most of them are still trying to manage to build a workable website.

I also find it hard to believe that IE7 has very many users any more.

A lot of Win98 boxes still running out there a lot of W2K ones too. A lot of PCs purchased as retail pornographs are still running whatever OS they came with. A lot of clueless corporates having paid way too much for in house systems are stuck using out of date and non compliant browsers on all their workstations.

As  PCs  croak,& are replaced,they usually come out of the box with later versions of IE.

Which is exactly why there are still a lot of POS IE browsers still in use. A lot of people still see their PC as a capital investment rather than a consumable tool.

Being sheep,we just learn to  live with the newer,crippled versions of both operating systems & browsers!

There is a good degree of the sheep type resistance out there. People who seldom write more than a memo will pay way too much for a copy of office and resist using the (in their case) fully functional equivalent open or Libre office suites, because they look different. Funny thing is the open source stuff is probably more equivalent to the office 2003 they are using at work than Microsoft's latest garbage is.
You will see similar resistance with browsers when the clueless want to stick with what they've always used. I don't fight it any more, when they come (and they will) pleading for help with the inevitable browser issues, is the time to load a proper compatible browser as the fix.
Sadly the sheep mentality is why Microsoft has beenable to linger with their latest steaming piles of intrusive Os's and also the reason why so many Linux builds lose the plot trying to b e MS lookalikes.

I'm not a fanboy of Kogan and his cheap Chinese TVs but you have to hand it to him for poking the sheep mentality with a long pointed stick.

[Mechatrommer]

4-5% are technologically-inept

so you call the few millions people technologically inept? soon i will be among them and become technologically inept? tell me whats good new technology bring? as long as i can browse cern and find mr albert or stephen in the web, i will stick with it (ie8). in case that it cant cut it, then i have a chrome ready to the rescue, but i see there is not much difference between them, infact with its 'darwinian evolution' novelty of boorkmarking system, i cant save my bookmark in HDD anymore (or maybe i'm an ignorant mistaken, i still cant find how, i saw that import to IE option but that a afew more steps?), all i know the good thing it can do is when i go to work browse with chrome, i can see the same bookmark as when i was home, saved bookmark in the net? (security or spamming opportunity?). well, if i want to i can bring my saved bookmarks and set it up in my ie at work. maybe i should try another the firefox or another one i cant recall people mentioned?

everybody around me now using at least 6" lcd touch screen browser walking around everywhere, regardless older or younger than me. i'm the one left with my old nokia 'not' qwerty keyboard handphone and the IE8. when asked why, sure they can talk, ooh its good it can download things it uses this processor that processor fast! yeah right... i'm thinking of getting one too, but i'm afraid i will scratch it the first time i put it in my pocket.

[T4P]

4-5% are technologically-inept

so you call the few millions people technologically inept? soon i will be among them and become technologically inept? tell me whats good new technology bring? as long as i can browse cern and find mr albert or stephen in the web, i will stick with it (ie8). in case that it cant cut it, then i have a chrome ready to the rescue, but i see there is not much difference between them, infact with its 'darwinian evolution' novelty of boorkmarking system, i cant save my bookmark in HDD anymore (or maybe i'm an ignorant mistaken, i still cant find how, i saw that import to IE option but that a afew more steps?), all i know the good thing it can do is when i go to work browse with chrome, i can see the same bookmark as when i was home, saved bookmark in the net? (security or spamming opportunity?). well, if i want to i can bring my saved bookmarks and set it up in my ie at work. maybe i should try another the firefox or another one i cant recall people mentioned?

everybody around me now using at least 6" lcd touch screen browser walking around everywhere, regardless older or younger than me. i'm the one left with my old nokia 'not' qwerty keyboard handphone and the IE8. when asked why, sure they can talk, ooh its good it can download things it uses this processor that processor fast! yeah right... i'm thinking of getting one too, but i'm afraid i will scratch it the first time i put it in my pocket.

Mostly the 4-5% are inept
But some of the 4-5% don't bother with a new browser, i use chrome because well ... IE is terribly SLOW

[vk6zgo]

Well,would you believe,I'm using Chrome,right now!
I noticed that I still had it on the desktop.

I could have sworn I deleted it,but it may have snuck back in with another program I downloaded.
Anyhow,I thought I'd give it another try!

It doesn't freak me out as much as it used to,so it looks like I've slowly been weaned off "browsers that look like browsers".
A lot of the crud on Chrome is also on IE9,so that I've become used to doing things in non intuitive ways!

Still don't like it that much,but the fact I can even tolerate it means that it has dropped back from "Rheumatic Fever" to about the level of
a bad attack of 'flu!

Might have another look at Firefox!

[Mechatrommer]

Mostly the 4-5% are inept
But some of the 4-5% don't bother with a new browser, i use chrome because well ... IE is terribly SLOW

and "most" of the 96% people are "not" inept? "technologically skillfull"? i can see you have problem with your OS setup as my ie8 is doing ok on most sites. or maybe you are using ie9? get Win8 and a tablet! or that Samsung InterGalactic S3

[T4P]

Mostly the 4-5% are inept
But some of the 4-5% don't bother with a new browser, i use chrome because well ... IE is terribly SLOW

and "most" of the 96% people are "not" inept? "technologically skillfull"? i can see you have problem with your OS setup as my ie8 is doing ok on most sites. or maybe you are using ie9? get Win8 and a tablet! or that Samsung InterGalactic S3

Yes also most of the 96% use whatever browsers came with them ... Dickheads who think their Galaxy S3 and iDevice is of very good quality and that blowing 1000$ on their phones is a very good idea

BUT you have to see the problem, the startup speed of IE once it's cluttered

[Mechatrommer]

and "most" of the 96% people are "not" inept? "technologically skillfull"?

Yes also most of the 96% use whatever browsers came with them

semantics difference if not, then the my 'religion subject' colleague is more technological than i am. about your IE, once its cluttered, 'de-cluster' it aka 'clear cache'. but i havent clearing cache for so long.

[vk6zgo]

Been playing around again with IE9 & Chrome,& realised how limited my use of the 'Net has been recently!

I usually open IE,which brings up my Home Page,then I either go to this forum,or others using  Favorites.
Searching,I go to Google,so it is a while since I'd just entered an URL in the Address Bar.
This time,when I did so,up came Bing's Search page,with the required site,plus a lot of other crud I didn't want.

Interesting!-----So I went to Chrome,which did the same thing,but with Google's Search page instead.

That's when it clicked!---What freaked me out before about Chrome was this behaviour!

But why didn't IE9 freak me out,too?
The only thing I can think is that it had the "Search from Address Bar" function turned off,& somewhere down the line I had reactivated it.

The Internet is full of crud from IE shills saying what a wonderful thing this function is!
On the other hand,there are many people who hate it,& ask how to remove it.

At least you can turn it off with IE9,but you can't with Chrome!

If your usage pattern is like mine,it will probably only annoy you if you have entered a known URL.
Businesses publish their URLs so that you can find them--why should they bother,if you still end up on a Search Engine?

[Uncle Vernon]

The Internet is full of crud from IE shills saying what a wonderful thing this function is!
On the other hand,there are many people who hate it,& ask how to remove it.

No! IE should not be removed! It is, after all,  a handy tool provided by Microsoft to allow Download and Installation of a browser to any new Windows installs.

[PeterG]

The Internet is full of crud from IE shills saying what a wonderful thing this function is!
On the other hand,there are many people who hate it,& ask how to remove it.

No! IE should not be removed! It is, after all,  a handy tool provided by Microsoft to allow Download and Installation of a browser to any new Windows installs.

Well said...
It shows there is at least one use for IE.

Regards

[vk6zgo]

The Internet is full of crud from IE shills saying what a wonderful thing this function is!
On the other hand,there are many people who hate it,& ask how to remove it.

No! IE should not be removed! It is, after all,  a handy tool provided by Microsoft to allow Download and Installation of a browser to any new Windows installs.

No Unc!You left your specs off!

What I was talking about was removing "Search from Address Bar",which is present on both IE9 & Chrome,&
seems to delight the "Tech Savvy" Tossers !

IE9 is OK if you take that XX$%^^%$^^!!!!! thing away!
Maybe Chrome would be,too if I can find a way to do the same thing with it.

[PeterG]

The chrome bar will act as an address bar if an address  is entered in full i think.

Regards

[Monkeh]

The Internet is full of crud from IE shills saying what a wonderful thing this function is!
On the other hand,there are many people who hate it,& ask how to remove it.

No! IE should not be removed! It is, after all,  a handy tool provided by Microsoft to allow Download and Installation of a browser to any new Windows installs.

No Unc!You left your specs off!

What I was talking about was removing "Search from Address Bar",which is present on both IE9 & Chrome,&
seems to delight the "Tech Savvy" Tossers !

IE9 is OK if you take that XX$%^^%$^^!!!!! thing away!
Maybe Chrome would be,too if I can find a way to do the same thing with it.

Well then, use Firefox.

[vk6zgo]

(Answer to PeterG)

Nope!


I just tried that,& got the Search page again.
The directions from Google say to put in the complete URL,then press Enter,but why bother if you get the same result?

One website says to put in a false Search Engine as default,& then it will operate in the "old school " fashion,but I don't want to mess about if I don't know what I'm doing!

I'm using Chrome at the moment,& it definitely seems faster,once you've got past that bit of nonsense!

[vk6zgo]

The Internet is full of crud from IE shills saying what a wonderful thing this function is!
On the other hand,there are many people who hate it,& ask how to remove it.

No! IE should not be removed! It is, after all,  a handy tool provided by Microsoft to allow Download and Installation of a browser to any new Windows installs.

No Unc!You left your specs off!

What I was talking about was removing "Search from Address Bar",which is present on both IE9 & Chrome,&
seems to delight the "Tech Savvy" Tossers !

IE9 is OK if you take that XX$%^^%$^^!!!!! thing away!
Maybe Chrome would be,too if I can find a way to do the same thing with it.

Well then, use Firefox.

I'll try that next---I tried installing it on my wife's desktop when she was having problems with Facebook games,but no joy.
I ended up doing a System Restore,which of course,also restored IE9.
It fixed the problem,though!
Firefox looked nice, maybe next time,I'll come up using it.

[Mechatrommer]

i just figured out... nothing better than extending my coax and moving the antenna away off the blocking concrete wall. now my net seems golden. firefox also installed, seems responsive. yet to test the difficult sites i encountered in chrome and ie. o and i think touch screen 23+" monitor should be available by now already at consumer price. the chrome presents me with some icons at startup... chrome webstore, youtube, gmail, and google search. if i have a touch screen monitor, maybe i can wosh (ipod scroll) those away.

[vk6zgo]

Hi,here I am on Firefox>
Yes,it doesn't have "Search from Address Bar" as default.
Much nicer UI than Chrome,but it doesn't seem quite as fast.
It does seem faster than IE9,though.