500 MHz 8b 2GS/s oscilloscope

[T4P]

The main point is that , USB 2.0 only works up to 480 Megabits/s and that is like only 60 Megabytes , so in RTS mode you either get 480MSPS or 60MSPS ( sorry , i don't know much about how they send information )
There's 2 methods : Dump ( Useful if the USB scope uses internal sample memory ) A little slow , can't get really lots of waveform updates .
Or the 2nd method : Constant Transfer ( Forgot the term but oh well ) Good , but very limited sample rate . High waveform update rate capability .

[EEVblog]

There's 2 methods : Dump ( Useful if the USB scope uses internal sample memory ) A little slow , can't get really lots of waveform updates .
Or the 2nd method : Constant Transfer ( Forgot the term but oh well ) Good , but very limited sample rate . High waveform update rate capability .

Both of which are perfectly acceptable trade-offs for a PC Based scope, and most people would understand and be happy with this.

Dave.

[Mechatrommer]

The main point is that , USB 2.0 only works up to 480 Megabits/s and that is like only 60 Megabytes , so in RTS mode you either get 480MSPS or 60MSPS ( sorry , i don't know much about how they send information )
There's 2 methods : Dump ( Useful if the USB scope uses internal sample memory ) A little slow , can't get really lots of waveform updates .
Or the 2nd method : Constant Transfer ( Forgot the term but oh well ) Good , but very limited sample rate . High waveform update rate capability .

i think he 2nd method is the "dumb" transfer (someone or dave talked/termed it last time iirc), the 1st method is only transfer upon trigger (internal memory). i believe with good HW implementation, 480Mbps is more than adequate for display purpose. one can do tens of K of update rate in HW and send through USB in some form of data.

[BravoV]

I still have not understood what you want from "us" - the forum readers.

I'm not sure if its the language barrier (or just me) but I'm a bit confused about your intention for this thread, it doesn't seem like you want advice...

Apparently he missed these important questions since the beginning, another bump just in case he really lost in translation.

My guess, even this is just another self bragging or show off thread (nothing wrong with this though and its perfectly fine), at least show us "part of" your design to convince this forum which I believe has many senior EE readers, and my aim is to hear those expert's comment on your work, otherwise all of this is just blank talks, aka nothing.

Just an example,  show us your analog scope front end design starting from the bnc connector to the adc, you don't even need to tell us what adc ic that you're going to use, and most important thing is to keep the 'ultra secret" back end that you claimed to be the "heart" of your great work, so your secret is safe. Just the analog front end, not that difficult right ?

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, you just can not hide too much from people to reverse engineer the analog front circuit unless you're using proprietary chip/ic in it, right ?

We're sitting nicely and waiting anxiously.

[Mechatrommer]

Apparently he missed these important questions since the beginning, another bump just in case he really lost in translation.

and maybe incase you missed (by reading many of OP's posts). this is a case of self rant and probably getting people emotional support. rant on how silicon costs nothing from sand, how economy and corporation sucks, how stupid consumers and investors are etc etc, and how poor (be assure that i'm poorer ) and under-financed the OP is albeit his excellent skills.

[BravoV]

and maybe in case you missed (by reading many of OP's posts). this is a case of self rant and probably getting people emotional support. rant on how silicon costs nothing from sand, how economy and corporation sucks, how stupid consumers and investors are etc etc, and how poor (be assure that i'm poorer ) and under-financed the OP is albeit his excellent skills.

Wow Mech, you're even worst than me  , I thought my posts already quite rude and harsh, now you called all of this are just rants from a forum member with excellent skills in building "elite grade" scope  nobody , sorry, nope, his skill set is not proven yet.

Honestly, I love to hear a rant, but from the expert or at least experienced EE, also a reminder this is one of the reason why we all still hanging around EEVBlog here, to hear and enjoy Dave's "professional" rants.

[petar]

Thank you Richard, for your recommendation. I appreciate your advice.
I will certainly make a differential probe for the scope as I think that is far more easier to achieve and that it could be done in so little space that wouldn't make a probe difficult to handle.
If anybody is still confused about what I want, please do not attack me, please wait for me to finish the scope. All the answer are clear for me, and I have recommendation for all that don't see it clear: read my first post and all the answer is there and if you still don't know what I want read it again and again and if you still want to attack me please instead of doing that just ignore my comments.

Best regards,
Petar 

[quantumfall]

Petar, Just some random thorts hope they help.

You will have to pick a user market Hobbyist, Education, Advanced but poor user who needs high performance. probably the list is endless because in reality you will be selling on price at the lower end almost certainly. If you want to sell to Pro, Labs  etc with big budgets they will pick the Agilents and Tektronics of the world.

You could have a unique feature, features that will offset selling price a bit.  may have many different grades of spec as well,  seems common in the O Scope business !!

Stand alone unit or PC Card ?  Its not very easy to plug a scope probe into your pc under your bench or even on top of your work area.

so that leaves stand alone box etc.  USB / LAN to PC, even blue tooth if you are only using the PC as a display device / controller you only need to update the screen at 60 Hz all processing / storage and capture in the device. Basically a full scope without controls or display.

good selling point could be design your own interface, twin screens.

Custom build your own or open source hardware external control panel with real rotary encoders, switches etc with USB / LAN or Blue Tooth this would appeal to hobbyists who want a project but would not attempt an FPGA Scope.

Just my random ideas.

I can't help feel at the end of the day it will come down to competition with the mass production / price of the Chinese manufacturing power house, unless you can get a slow
gradual relentless Hobby, open source way to volume supplying. with  firmware and parts, main logic board as a kit.

I hope this isn't a rambling load of old tosh

All the best to you.

[amspire]

If anybody is still confused about what I want, please do not attack me, please wait for me to finish the scope. All the answer are clear for me, and I have recommendation for all that don't see it clear: read my first post and all the answer is there and if you still don't know what I want read it again and again and if you still want to attack me please instead of doing that just ignore my comments.

Best regards,
Petar

Petar, If you know you have the capability to design this oscilloscope, then what we might think does not matter. You do not have to prove anything to us and you do not have to reveal all your secrets.

The thing is even if you can put together a design for the hardware that may work at 500MHz, all the debugging and development work, the product revisions and redesigns to get it right, the software, the PC drivers for all the different operating systems, and the case design just all sounds like way to much for one person to do. People are saying it as they see it.

What is really important is that before you start, you identify a market, and I think we may be struggling to see your market. Basically, no one wants to use a PC card based scope. Hardly anyone wants to use a USB scope that uses a PC for the display. If your BOM is $1000, then if you cannot sell the scope for something like $3000, making money would be near impossible with low quantities.

If you have the capability to make a differential probe box like the Fluke one that has enough common mode range and rejection to allow you to see an accurate gate waveform on the high-side N-MOS transistor in a rectified 240V mains switching circuit, then please make that first and sell it as soon as you can. Nothing like that is available at an affordable price right now. A warning though. They are not as easy as they look to design. Or more particularly, the design of the probes and the input stage is not easy.

I cannot see who would buy your 500MHz scope if you do not have a massive engineering budget, but everyone who works with switching power supplies and mains-side circuitry would want affordable differential probes. It is a perfect one-man project.

Richard.

[Bored@Work]

If you see questions of the form "What do you want?" as attacks, then you are more deranged than I thought.

[siliconmix]

The relays that could be seen on analog portion are very small 6mm reed contactors and I used omron relays with it magnetic field to activate the contactor underneath it.

We both know that semiconductor worth nothing. That is the sand, that each river carry a lot of…
We “all” think that some multi billion transistor processor worth let’s say 20$ in production, no that’s the lie. It worth nothing.
Someone would say it is true why you don’t make it and…
But I am certain if one from “poor” country would make such a thing, the guys from west would kill him, or kill entire country whichever is easier to do.
I am also certain that engineers that did all the jobs are less than 1% of the price we are paying for the product.

I saw that you say that: “If someone from China wants to copy your product you could do nothing”. Bad China… No, we are all humans we are all same. China is under total west control. All that is “steal” from the west is under direct control of the west people, so lets say this way: “If one from your neighborhood wants to steel something from you than he goes to China to make it there…”

In human history there is no single event where someone that has power to kill, and knows that he would win the war waits until other side becomes stronger than him. Every time when someone is shore that he would win the war was inevitable. Why USA don’t attack China (the only answer would be: China is under total control.)

couldn't  you just sell the design ?

[petar]

The PCI card that I finished 8 years ago is just a prototype.
I made a mistake and that’s why occasionally (lets say 1 sample in 10^6) has error.
I never made a second prototype to overcome mistake. The connector between the analog board and the digital has so few GND connection that eventually when too many simultaneously ADC bits change the error appear. That the reason why I later in all my designs used for each signal one near GND pin.
I am just a man, so I made mistakes. I made a lot of mistakes in the past that’s how I learned, I know that the hard way….

Thanks

[petar]

That's the first prototype made 2001. with many more mistakes but without mistake that I mention (because there is no connector....).

[EEVblog]

I cannot see who would buy your 500MHz scope if you do not have a massive engineering budget, but everyone who works with switching power supplies and mains-side circuitry would want affordable differential probes. It is a perfect one-man project.

I'd second that.
There is a massive market there just waiting to be tapped.

Dave.

[petar]

Thank you Richard, Dave and Quantumfall.

Please don’t think if I didn’t answer immediately that I think that yours recommendations isn’t good.

Guys I will think not twice but many times what would be my next step.

Petar,

[siliconmix]

i remember reading a while back on one of the metal detector blogs about a hobbyist  selling a prototype straight to a major manufacturer.

[zvonimirdjurdjic]

So, was this great scope ever created, or is this just another Serb with Tesla complex?