3M breadboards for cheap

[tooki]

[2023-03-26 edit: Updated URLs and added some info, but left the 2017 pricing info intact, as the price increases are addressed in a followup reply.]

So there's a fairly wide consensus on here that 3M breadboards are among the very best, perhaps the best, on the market, discussed in e.g.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/quality-breadboards-on-ebay/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-is-so-great-about-3m-breadboards/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/quality-breadboards/


Anyway, 2 years ago I bought a single 3M breadboard from a local distributor. The actual item that arrived says "AP PRODUCTS MENTOR, OH" on it. (As do some items on the third page linked above.)

A bit of googling seems to indicate that while that company still exists [2023-03-26 edit: it appears A P Products closed in early 2019.]  (and lays laid claim to being the inventor of the modern breadboard), it doesn't look like they're still making breadboards, nor have any locations in Ohio. A bit of further googling, however, ends up with an Ohio company called Assembly Specialist, whose products include breadboards.

This page contains this nugget:

Bread Boards
Popular for protoype building and home hobbies. We offer 7 different size boards, all specifications can be found on our website. These are high quality boards originally produced by AP Products in the 70's and 80's and now owned and proudly produced in the U.S.A.by Assembly Specialist.

And indeed those breadboards look suspiciously identical to the 3M/AP ones -- all the way down to product names ("Super Strip" and "Circuit Strip") and part numbers (e.g. my breadboard, which is a 3M Circuit Strip, part number 923253, vs Assembly Specialist CS253), and errors in the data sheets (that item is erroneously described by both 3M and Assembly Specialist as having 620 tie points in 2x48 rows + buses, but it's actually 610 points on 2x47 rows + buses).

So I'd be willing to bet that Assembly Specialist is still the actual OEM making these things for 3M.

And they sell direct.

And they're incredibly cheap.

For example, the 3M 923253 is about $27 on Digi-Key, while the CS253 is under $9 direct from Assembly Specialist.

For the gold-plated version, the 3M 923749 is a $121 special-order item from Digi-Key, while the equivalent CS749 direct from Assembly Specialist is $40. 

I'm thinking I may order some from them to see. Figured you all would appreciate knowing about this, too.

FYI, they charge $11 shipping in USA, but their Paypal seems to not be set up for international, as it wanted to charge me no shipping at all to Switzerland, which can't possibly be right.


For reference, here are the product pages:

All 3M breadboard products
Assembly Specialists breadboards on baseplates
Assembly Specialists bare breadboards


2023-03-26 addition: The Assembly Specialist website used to say the following right on the home page:

With over 20 years of packaging and assembly experience, Assembly Specialist's reputation is built on providing quick, professional and reliable service.  We have been a supplier of services & products to companies like 3M for over 18 years.

Assembly Specialist is now the owner and supplier of the original AP Products breadboard product line. These are the same high quality products you have been used to for almost 30 years, nothing has changed. We are proud to sell the highest quality products in the market.
We are also the owner/supplier of the original AP Products/Aptronics male .100 center header product line. Most standard headers ship the same day, other welded and custom headers ship in less than a week. Once again, these are the highest quality products on the market.

The mention of 3M was struck sometime in 2009, but other than updating "almost 30 years" to "over 40 years", the rest remains basically unchanged.

[rdl]

I think you've made quite a discovery here. These look to be the real deal and the prices are fantastic. My favorite, the #318 is only 1/3 the cost of the same 3M board from Mouser or Digi-Key.

[ZeTeX]

They also have the exact jumper links that 3M sells on their site, the same thing but with different logo.
but 3M jumper links cost about 47$ in digikey, while it cost 15$ on assemblyspecialist.com.
http://www.assemblyspecialist.com/WebStore/jumberWires.html

excellent find! now, everybody who want a suggestion for top quality breadboard, I will suggest them this.

[tooki]

Hey look, I just stumbled (by pure chance!) on hard evidence that it's the correct company (such that we have an uninterrupted corporate chain of custody, so to speak). Look at the test clips on page 12 (PDF page 14) of the Nov 1986 Radio-Electronics. There's 3M and AP Products, clearly associated in a 3M ad. Was 3M just rebadging stuff? Or did they own them as subsidiaries or something, I wonder?

Assembly Specialist still makes those things, too.

In any case, in non-grocery retail (other than computers and similar complex finished goods), it's standard for the wholesale cost of an item to be no more than 40% of the retail price. This is right along what we are seeing here -- looks like Assembly Specialist is just selling them at wholesale. (Of course, when there's a middleman, you've got them buying at an even larger discount, so Assembly is surely charging more than 3M pays.)

Edit: Updated link URL.

[tooki]

I guess I should place an order for myself before all of eevblog inundates them with orders, hahahaha! (It can't be a large company, if their website tells you to contact Mike Such-and-such with questions!)

[Cerebus]

I think you've made quite a discovery here.

Indeed. Now to see if there's a cost effective way to get them in, or delivered to, anywhere other than the USA.

[CJay]

Indeed. Now to see if there's a cost effective way to get them in, or delivered to, anywhere other than the USA.

Well if a group buy would make it cheaper by sharing the transit costs then count me in, I've got a load of breadboards already but they look a cut above.

[tooki]

Indeed. Now to see if there's a cost effective way to get them in, or delivered to, anywhere other than the USA.

Well if a group buy would make it cheaper by sharing the transit costs then count me in, I've got a load of breadboards already but they look a cut above.

If only I were in an EU country I'd offer to do that, since I'm going to USA in less than a week. But then you'd all be stuck with customs fees, not to mention the relatively high postage from Switzerland.

If any of my fellow members in Switzerland want one of the boards without the metal baseplate (sorry, weight concerns!), I'd be happy to bring you some, as I will be ordering some for myself.

As for what these boards are like, my experience with having one: mixed blessing in a way. Compared to the cheap Chinese ones, the contact resistance is beautifully low, they don't loosen up with use so components and leads don't fall out. So the circuits built on it is far less likely to act up due to a poor connection or component popping out.

The reason for this, but also consequence of it, is that the insertion force is much, much higher than in cheap breadboards. It's practically mandatory to cut the legs on good-quality resistors on the bias to produce a sharp point; a blunt straight cut won't enter easily. Even so, it's usually better to use tweezers or small pliers to insert component leads with. By hand, you end up with resistors bent like spaghetti. Similarly, forget about forcing in massively oversize leads as you can in a cheap breadboard, they just won't go in. (A cheap breadboard's terminal strip will be permanently damaged by this, so it's not a good idea anyway, but it can be done in a pinch.) For such components, regardless of breadboard type, I highly recommend moving them off-board using sacrificial M-F DuPont jumpers, or male DuPont to minigrabber/alligator/IC clip leads. For power transistors and MOSFETs, using flat-jaw pliers to twist the legs 90 degrees is essential, they will not go in otherwise (this trick is helpful for cheap breadboards, too, as it avoids loosening their cheap contacts).

The high insertion force also means that you really should mount the bare breadboards on a baseplate, or hold them down on a bench when inserting components (no holding the breadboard in your hand!), because otherwise, you can actually press out the terminal bars, which are only held in place by double-sided foam (as on cheap breadboards, too).

[tooki]

I'm gonna give them a call later today to ask about shipping to Europe. If there's anything you want me to ask while I'm at it, lemme know.

[Ash]

So I attempted to place an order using their shipping cart last night, and I just got a notification that they refunded it and sent me a message saying they don't ship overseas.. 

Looks like if we want to get these we are going to need a kind USA member to assist with shipping on some kind of group buy...

------
EDIT:

I've started a conversation with Mike at AP as he did offer to ship using my courier account.. He has confirmed to me that they white label to 3M so these are the real deal!

He also said that they don't keep everything in stock, but the lead time would be around 2 weeks.


I don't want to step on anyone's toes here, but I would be happy to help with a group order. However Australia is not the best place to redistribute from, but I've previously shipped products I've manufactured all over the world.

Anyone interested?

Ash.

[ElektroQuark]

I really like those boards. The jumpers are first class too. I wouldn't mind to buy a bunch of them.

[cdev]

The original "3M" breadboards last forever too. I have one which I know I bought in the 1980s and its still going strong.

[jwm_]

Yup. definitely 3M boards, I know because they accidentally put the wrong label on one of mine.

[rsjsouza]

Good find, tooki! Bookmarked.

[nanofrog]

The original "3M" breadboards last forever too. I have one which I know I bought in the 1980s and its still going strong.

Same here. 

[cdev]

You know they are the real deal because at the beginning its almost impossible to force your wires in there.

Note: I meant appropriately sized wires.. Good breadboards don't really lose their grabbing capacity with use, and the stiffness always remains to some extent, but lessens with a bit of use.

In my experience they work better than I would tend to expect, knowing how they are constructed.

Good breadboards are a real success story in terms of helping make electronics experimentation easier and more user friendly.

[Richard Crowley]

Has anyone torn bad and good breadboards apart to compare and measure in some quantifiable way just what makes one BB good and another bad?

Here are a couple of them. I believe there are more.....

[rdl]

One of those SYB-120 boards (same as in the first video) got me once when a circuit didn't work because the power rails were split with no indication. Then they got me again when I jumpered them across the middle and the circuit still didn't work. A number of boards I have, including 3M, have power rails that are split in half. That SYB was the first I've seen that was split in thirds.

[nanofrog]

What is the situation with what kinds and sizes of component leads can safely be used with these?

Max Size Ratings (per 3M)

• DIPs of all sizes & .032"/20AWG diameter leads for discretes
• 22AWG solid wire for interconnects

Here are a couple of them. I believe there are more.....

FWIW, the busses on 3M's full length Super Strips and 3/4 length Circuit Strips only connect for half the total length. So 25 connected points on the Super Strip & 20 on the 3/4 length versions. So links in the middle are necessary if you want them connected end-to-end.

Full & 3/4 distribution strips are connected end-to-end.

[tooki]

FWIW, the busses on 3M's full length Super Strips and 3/4 length Circuit Strips only connect for half the total length. So 25 connected points on the Super Strip & 20 on the 3/4 length versions. So links in the middle are necessary if you want them connected end-to-end.

Not quite. That is correct for the full length ones: they are two halves. But the 3/4 length ones have a contiguous strip. (I just checked mine with a DMM.)

See http://www.assemblyspecialist.com/WebStore/TSandDS.html

You can see that the full-length ones expressly show that they are 8 half-busses. And that the 3/4 length ones have no such qualifier.

[tooki]

The better quality breadboards are modular and can be disassembled into their pieces.

Not all high-quality breadboards are like that. The 3M ones here come in versions with built-in (not snapped on) buses, and I don't think anyone would argue that 3M breadboards are anything but top quality.

[Nuno_pt]

If they don't ship internationally, if someone in US is willing to make some buy for the ones that want and ship it to one address in EU, and from that address in EU the distribution will take place to the group, or other way is get a Shipito address, ship it there and the to EU.

They shure look cheap compare to the 3M ones.

[nanofrog]

Not quite. That is correct for the full length ones: they are two halves. But the 3/4 length ones have a contiguous strip. (I just checked mine with a DMM.)

See http://www.assemblyspecialist.com/WebStore/TSandDS.html

You can see that the full-length ones expressly show that they are 8 half-busses. And that the 3/4 length ones have no such qualifier.

You're right.   

I mis-read 3M's Solderless Breadboard and Accessories document on page 5 (P/N's: 923253 & 923749), as I don't have any 3/4 strips to test.   

FWIW, mine is an older 3M model (ACE 127 with 3 binding posts instead of 4 & the metal plate is painted blue steel rather than gold anodized aluminum). It uses the gold plated versions of full length distribution strips & circuit strips (Super Strips).

[tooki]

FWIW, mine is an older 3M model (ACE 127 with 3 binding posts instead of 4 & the metal plate is painted blue steel rather than gold anodized aluminum). It uses the gold plated versions of full length distribution strips & circuit strips (Super Strips).

Gold anodized aluminum?!? Modern 3M ones use red painted steel. See the pic in the post above: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3m-breadboards-for-cheap/msg1241680/#msg1241680

(The 3M catalog says they're steel.)

[nanofrog]

Gold anodized aluminum?!? Modern 3M ones use red painted steel. See the pic in the post above: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3m-breadboards-for-cheap/msg1241680/#msg1241680

(The 3M catalog says they're steel.)

Currently they're steel finished in red gloss paint, but that wasn't always the case.

Gold Aluminum


Steel w/ blue crinkle paint finish (same as mine)


Keep in mind, both of these models were made decades ago (aluminum first, then steel).