3D-Printing

[NilByMouth]

I printed feet for my vintage oscilloscope... I also printed a small electronics enclosure, which I can mod by adding holes of exactly the right dimensions without having to pay hundreds of pounds for the punches (e.g. BNC sockets).

Hmm, plastic replicas of an existing elastomer massproduct, and a thermoplastic electronics enclosure that gives a solution for who refuses to buy a drill.
I don't doubt you had fun with it, transferring the model in the software etcetera, but it still fully complies to the description I gave.

Try to produce a product outside the description, and you WILL be forced to get into that "Wow there grampa, don't get too cranky" range of computerised manufacuring methods.

An existing elastomer massproduct that is no longer manufactured and extremely scarce, yes. A bit silly to pay multiple tens of dollars for a parts mule just to get the feet off it.

I have a perfectly serviceable drill. Please tell me where I can buy a bit that makes holes with flats to prevent the BNC connectors from spinning.

[ANTALIFE]

I prefer CNC subractive manufacturing, old school. Good 3D printers can do sintered metals, a wide range of plastics but that is professional printers. Home and hobby printers that essentially dribble hot snot everywhere are a waste of time and money.

Wow there grampa, don't get too cranky. I have a 12" Prusa i3v printer and have to say it's one of the best investments I've ever made. But different strokes for different folks I guess... 

What's the sellable non-artistical non-decoration-only usable product you produced with it?

http://antdiy.blogspot.com.au/ along with a bunch of enclosures and various fittings for LED lights and curtains. As I said different strokes for different folks, I can see where a CNC/subtractive manufacturing would be better (especially in mass production). But calling a hobby tier 3D printer "waste of money" is just wrong 

Also how quickly/economically can you prototype an enclosure/product with a CNC/subtractive manufacturing? 

[Philfreeze]

+1 for the section.
Name... Something to the effect of "DIY automated manufacturing (CNC, 3D printing, etc)", perhaps?

+ 1 for the section and the name. Maybe leave out the automated and make it a bit more general like that?

[NilByMouth]

+1 for the section.
Name... Something to the effect of "DIY automated manufacturing (CNC, 3D printing, etc)", perhaps?

+ 1 for the section and the name. Maybe leave out the automated and make it a bit more general like that?

It sounds like the CNC aficionados would want their own section, so they don't have to sully themselves with us lowly 3D printer, snot dribbling hobbyists.   

[aargee]

3D tools section.

That also does/does not describe the members. 

I've just printed replacement tap (faucet) knobs for our cisterns. The originals have gotten brittle and fell apart (15 years old). Can't buy knobs that fit as replacements, you have to buy a whole new assembly, of course with a different style of knob fitting.
So then you have to go around and replace all the taps -or- you learn Sketchup in a morning and produce a model that fits nicely with your printer.

SHMBO is just not happy with the colours I've chosen for each knob.   

[Philfreeze]

It sounds like the CNC aficionados would want their own section, so they don't have to sully themselves with us lowly 3D printer, snot dribbling hobbyists.   

They would probably like that but I think it is better if they have to share a section with the 3d printer pleb.
There will also be other guys like the pick-and-place folk.

[Galenbo]

Maybe the " thermoplastic electronics enclosure" (btw. this sounds really fancy) he wanted isn't produced in the same size. Should he buy a block of wood/plastic/alluminium and make the case from this block?

You are wrong, and forgot a part of the description. Look yourself at the results and the costs, and see if it's sellable. That's what I was talking about. Don't bend it into something else.

Nobody cares witch 3Dprinter an enduser buys (consumes), nobody cares witch existing or selfmade design file is transferred. Nobody cares what the enduser "does" with the printed part.
The result is always the same: the owner had "fun", just like watching a movie. And there it stops.

For production and business the -10K "printers" are completely useless, and that's why the "Wow there grampa, don't get too cranky" screamers are plain stupid.

Also how quickly/economically can you prototype an enclosure/product with a CNC/subtractive manufacturing? 

The same mistake here. Don't bend it from "sellable" to "prototype generation"
And don't generalise prototype. Are you talking about a dimensional demo, working part, witch material, specs?
These days, even the unfunctional prototypes in this area are made with stereolithography.

[Philfreeze]

The same mistake here. Don't bend it from "sellable" to "prototype generation"
And don't generalise prototype. Are you talking about a dimensional demo, working part, witch material, specs?
These days, even the unfunctional prototypes in this area are made with stereolithography.

But that is the entire point of the small 3D printers. Prototyping.
You can prototype almost all the mechanical things with a 3d-printer and don't tell me the sub 10k printers are only used because 3d-printing is fun. If a hobbiest wants an enclosure or some different mechanical parts which can be made with plastic why should he not use a sub 10k 3d printer?
It takes him a lot more time to make the part the classical way.

And who says that everything must be sellable?
Made I just want to make some testing gear for another product, a prototype, a demo or something else. If I want to make something sellable I am not gonna produce it by myself anyway because there are people who can do it cheaper and better than I can.

Btw. I can't see anybody who said that it would be feasable for large scale production. Of course a small 3d printer isn't feasable for that. However, if you need 10 special enclosures why would you not use a 3D printer?

[ANTALIFE]

Maybe the " thermoplastic electronics enclosure" (btw. this sounds really fancy) he wanted isn't produced in the same size. Should he buy a block of wood/plastic/alluminium and make the case from this block?

You are wrong, and forgot a part of the description. Look yourself at the results and the costs, and see if it's sellable. That's what I was talking about. Don't bend it into something else.

Nobody cares witch 3Dprinter an enduser buys (consumes), nobody cares witch existing or selfmade design file is transferred. Nobody cares what the enduser "does" with the printed part.
The result is always the same: the owner had "fun", just like watching a movie. And there it stops.

For production and business the -10K "printers" are completely useless, and that's why the "Wow there grampa, don't get too cranky" screamers are plain stupid.

Also how quickly/economically can you prototype an enclosure/product with a CNC/subtractive manufacturing? 

The same mistake here. Don't bend it from "sellable" to "prototype generation"
And don't generalise prototype. Are you talking about a dimensional demo, working part, witch material, specs?
These days, even the unfunctional prototypes in this area are made with stereolithography.

Holy moly gramps why does the 3D printing item have to be sellable in the first place? All the items I make are not designed with sellability in mind, just function.
When I'm talking about prototypes I mean the very first revision of a product, you know that one that is very likely to change in the future to fix the small error here or there. Machining these with a CNC can get quite costly if you want rapid prototyping, but yes if you want a sturdy item then this is the way to go.
And sure SLA printers would be better for prototyping items that require a higher detail, but these are still quite pricey for small time users like me.

I'm not sure what your beef with 3D printing is mate...

[Galenbo]

And who says that everything must be sellable?

Don't drag it into the extreme. And don't reverse the logic to score "some" point.

...When I'm talking about prototypes I mean the very first revision of a product, ...

Show me the company that uses such a 0.7K printer for that like you have.

I'm not sure what your beef with 3D printing is mate...

Don't make the false assumption that I would have "beef" with 3D printing. Don't try to polarise it his way.

I just can't stand dilettantes that only saw too many art videos about it, and without ever having been close to the other CNC machines, see it a the new-fancy-cheap-super solution to replace everything.
Those machines have their place in the industry, between every other manual/computerised additive/subtractive manufacturing solution.

[Philfreeze]

Those machines have their place in the industry, between every other manual/computerised additive/subtractive manufacturing solution.

Now I can agree with you.
3D-Printing isn't the one true method but it has its place.
(btw. I think most of us still have other tools/machines too. E.g. I have a cnc-mill, a beefy drill and my 3d-printer for the mechanical stuff)

[Galenbo]

Indeed, glad you also see it that way.
And most products need multiple machines to get manufactured, even the prototypes.

[ANTALIFE]

And who says that everything must be sellable?

Don't drag it into the extreme. And don't reverse the logic to score "some" point.

...When I'm talking about prototypes I mean the very first revision of a product, ...

Show me the company that uses such a 0.7K printer for that like you have.

I'm not sure what your beef with 3D printing is mate...

Don't make the false assumption that I would have "beef" with 3D printing. Don't try to polarise it his way.

I just can't stand dilettantes that only saw too many art videos about it, and without ever having been close to the other CNC machines, see it a the new-fancy-cheap-super solution to replace everything.
Those machines have their place in the industry, between every other manual/computerised additive/subtractive manufacturing solution.

Sure, Valve software has a few FDM printers they used to prototype the steam controller, they also use SLA printers for the finer detail prototypes. A few of the places I've applied for had sub-1k FDM printers for this purpose as well. There sort of prototypes are the ones that are used to get the form of the product right, for stress testing yes a better material would be needed so would be made with a CNC.

I guess I am one of those "dilettantes" who has never used a CNC before. But having seen what sort of investment it requires in terms of space/money/noise, I decided to go with an option that is better for me. Also I have never said that 3D printing would be the "be all end all" of manufacturing,

[bernie]

+1 , be good to have a section on this. Keep on meaning to extent my 3D printer with a milling bit.

[Mechanical Menace]

+1 , be good to have a section on this. Keep on meaning to extent my 3D printer with a milling bit.

You'll probably need to stiffen up the frame a lot and not expect to do any more than light engraving.

[Galenbo]

+1 , be good to have a section on this. Keep on meaning to extent my 3D printer with a milling bit.

You'll probably need to stiffen up the frame a lot and not expect to do any more than light engraving.

For other than engraving, automated greasing is needed, even a manual milling machine that didn't need that before a CNC conversion.

[Galenbo]

Sure, Valve software has a few FDM printers they used to prototype the steam controller, they also use SLA printers for the finer detail prototypes. A few of the places I've applied for had sub-1k FDM printers for this purpose as well. There sort of prototypes are the ones that are used to get the form of the product right, for stress testing yes a better material would be needed so would be made with a CNC...

Interesting. Do they combine self-printing with outsourcing? Maybe for bigger parts, or other materials?
Some additive manufacturers give excellent service, in some cases the prototype was delivered faster than their customer could make it himself.

A big plus to owning such basic printer as a company, is that the employees who outsource it later, train themselves in all the exceptions, specs, little difficulties.
In fact, we all know these machines are no 3D-printers, but 2.5D-printers.

[ChunkyPastaSauce]

I do prototype work for a number of companies. 3D printers are definitely used... a lot. Mostly high end machines... the lower end machines aimed at the home market, not so much. Too much fiddling and not dimensionally accurate (there are couple recent exceptions in the $2,000-$10,000 range, basically none for machines older than 2014.... execs at the big 3D companies are probably terrified about the future).

For prototypes, they're great. You can test the functionality of a concept, without worrying about manufacturing limitations (design a part to be compatible for conventional machining can sometimes be a time sink). They are often faster/cheaper too. The quality of some machines are good enough to pass for a production part (but vast majority you can tell, not because it's 'bad' but because 3d printed parts have a signature surface finish depending on the process used. High quality machines setup for quality, rather than speed, are good at masking it)

Also sometimes used for creating certain types of low cost molds, you can do volume parts that way

[SnipTheCat]

I prefer CNC subractive manufacturing, old school. Good 3D printers can do sintered metals, a wide range of plastics but that is professional printers. Home and hobby printers that essentially dribble hot snot everywhere are a waste of time and money.

 That's what I used to think, for me 3d printers were "horrible expensive toys" to print, very slowly, expensive low quality vases or other useless stuff (that's more or less what I saw at every demo of 3D printers here in Thailand)...

 Then last year I bought a cheap DIY kit, mostly for the fun of building it and to see what was all that hype about 3D printing, I didn't have any high expectation, but then I then realized I had been totally wrong... It's a very useful tool, it can produce very decent, if not top quality pieces, the strength of the printed pieces is pretty impressive. It's now become more than a hobby but a passion, I have since then customized the printer (mechanical, electronics and firmware)

I would love to have a 3D printing (& CNC, ..) section in this forum, it could also be split in sub sections such as electronics, mechanical and printing (or general)

[ADC-1995]

I agree that an area should be created for CNC, 3D printing, milling, (PCB/xcarver, etc). The technology has become so abundant that adding it to this forum would be a plus.  I was doing a little research on the naming convention for these types of technologies and I came across a term called "Additive Manufacturing" (AM).

Wiki mentions it under 3D printing and here where it is defined very nicely and it includes tech that hasn't been brought up here yet such as SLA, FDM, MJM, and SLS.  http://additivemanufacturing.com/basics/

"Additive Manufacturing (AM) is an appropriate name to describe the technologies that build 3D objects by adding layer-upon-layer of material, whether the material is plastic, metal, concrete or one day…..human tissue. " 

Human tissue... Is anyone doing this at home yet!

[jeremy]

+1 for a CNC section. Doesn't need to be milling or 3d printing necessarily. I think that if someone wanted to ask about the electronics and control systems behind a waterjet cake cutter or pancake cnc, of course they should be welcome!

[DTJ]

+1

I'm another one who would like to have a CNC board added.

It could included all CNC - milling/routing/3D printing etc

[Brumby]

+1 for a CNC section. Doesn't need to be milling or 3d printing necessarily. I think that if someone wanted to ask about the electronics and control systems behind a waterjet cake cutter or pancake cnc, of course they should be welcome!

... or chocolate printing