(discharged) Super capacitor in checked luggage on airplane?

[Zucca]

I would like to ask to a friend to bring me a board with six Maxwell BCAP0310 on a airplane from EU to US.
Big wires, strange electronic products... large components... guess what could happen....

Google suggest to not place the item in the carry on, but in the checked bag.

Beside the discussion with some X-Ray/security guy that it is not a bomb, is there any regulation that prevent air travel with discharged super cap in a checked in baggage?

Thanks!

[tggzzz]

I would like to ask to a friend to bring me a board with six Maxwell BCAP0310 on a airplane from EU to US.
Big wires, strange electronic products... large components... guess what could happen....

Google suggest to not place the item in the carry on, but in the checked bag.

Beside the discussion with some X-Ray/security guy that it is not a bomb, is there any regulation that prevent air travel with discharged super cap in a checked in baggage?

Thanks!

I suspect a lot will depend on their appearance, their demeanour, the airport, the alert level, and the alertness of the staff. Taking anything across any border for "a friend" is likely to raise suspicions; just watch the various "Border Patrol" type programmes on TV

It would be sensible to take data sheets, purchase documentation, packaging, and anything else that might help to satisfy their inquisitiveness as to whether it is or isn't a homebrew device.

I have taken a transportable 10V voltage reference containing two 7Ah SLA cells on a flight as hand baggage (UK<->Germany), without trouble. At the check-in scanner I was smiling, and before and after it went through the X-ray machine I asked them whether they wanted to see what was in the bag.

In the past I have taken a camera through, and they asked me to switch it on. I couldn't, since it was a 1950 mechanical camera. They shrugged and waved me through

[Robert763]

Hi,
No specfic restrictions on carrying capacitors on passenger aircraft. However it is an unusual case and supercapacitors did not exist when most regulations were written. The energy limit for batteries is 100 Wh or 360 kJ. A 310 F 2.7 V capacitor is 1.1kJ so well under.
I suggest carrying them with the terminals securely shorted, each capacitor in a separate plastic bag and then packed with padding / bubblewrap. Ideally mark "NOT BATTERIES" and put a printout of the datasheet with them. Put them in CHECKED baggage. The marking is in case they open the bag during security checks. Don't put anything with cables near them in the bag.  Devices with energy stored in them are normally limited to cabin baggage so that any overheating can be detected and action taken. Carrying supercapacitors in checked baggage is not a good idea because screening staff will not know what they are. If shorted there is no energy so OK to put into checked baggage.

Robert G8RPI
CEng FRAeS

(edit for typos)

[mendip_discovery]

I would he honest with the security staff and talk to them. From the programs I have seen if you declare they really take that as a sign you are not there for naughty reasons and work with you.

http://www.gov.uk/hand-luggage-restrictions

Ask your travel agent if they could put you in contact with the security and you can speak to them direct and sort this out if its concerning you.

I suspect you will just say you have some stuff the security shrug and let you go on your way.

[Robert763]

Asking in advance is a waste of time becuase you won't be talking to the person who checks on the day. Looking at UK restrictions is of limited use because the items are not departing from the UK.
For carry-on, no matter what the guidance says, the decision rests with the checker at the gate. You risk loosing anything you take as carry-on. I have had an item specifically designed to be carry-on compliant and "approved" by the TSA taken from me at the gate. Some airports will let you put items in the post, for a charge, but most just take them.
As long as they are discharged and the terminals are shorted the capacitors are perfectly OK to go in checked baggage. They might be misidentified during screening hence the need to mark as not batteries and ideally attach data sheet. Keeping any cables that might be in the bag well away from them wil reduce the risk of misidentification. I'm an aerospace professional with training in this stuff. I know what they look for but for reasons that should be obvious I'm not going to go into any details.

Robert.

[tggzzz]

Asking in advance is a waste of time becuase you won't be talking to the person who checks on the day. Looking at UK restrictions is of limited use because the items are not departing from the UK.
For carry-on, no matter what the guidance says, the decision rests with the checker at the gate. You risk loosing anything you take as carry-on. I have had an item specifically designed to be carry-on compliant and "approved" by the TSA taken from me at the gate. Some airports will let you put items in the post, for a charge, but most just take them.

... and sell them at auction. Don't know who gets the proceeds.

Since covid hit air travel, there are far fewer kindles/tablets and leathermen knives in the "unclaimed property" sections at local auctions

[themadhippy]

Ive always wondered why some enterprising person  dont put a vending machine by the check in/security gate selling stamps ,padded envelopes and wrapping material with a post box next to it

[Robert763]

Ive always wondered why some enterprising person  dont put a vending machine by the check in/security gate selling stamps ,padded envelopes and wrapping material with a post box next to it

Some do, or did. Certainly San Francisco International did last time I flew out of there. Wasn't a machine IIRC you called and paid by card. and they authenticated the number pre-printed on the label.

[Robert763]

An electrolytic capacitor or supercapcitor will not burst at aircraft altitudes. There are hundreds if not thousands of them on every aircraft. the units used are the same as used in commercial equipment.
There is little or no gas in a capacitor to cause a pressure differential never mind excessive force. They burst in operation due to the electrolyte being boiled by a fault.
The reason for putting it in checked baggage is so a screener does not see it.

Robert G8RPI.

[Kasper]

Beside the discussion with some X-Ray/security guy that it is not a bomb

To call it a potential 'discussion' is to minimize the risk you are pushing to your friend.

If this causes your friend hours of time being interviewed or worse, will you compensate them for their time and 'pain and suffering'?  What if they miss their flight or have a delay retrieving their luggage?  Have you agreed on fair compensation for this?  Could it impact your friendship?  How does that compare to the cost of shipping?

[james_s]

I think packing them with a datasheet is probably a good idea. I flew out of London with several HID and fluorescent lamp ballast chokes in my carry on bag and a light fixture, a bunch of lamps and other assorted electrical hardware packed in the dirty laundry in my checked bag. The security guy pulled me aside at the xray machine with a puzzled look on his face and asked me what the ballasts were so I told him and then he sent me on my way. My checked bag showed no signs of having been gone through by the time I got home.

[Psi]

I think packing them with a datasheet is probably a good idea.

yep, packed with datasheet and shorted link across terminals with a label on the wire link saying "Capacitor terminals shorted, zero stored energy"   

[tggzzz]

I think packing them with a datasheet is probably a good idea.

yep, packed with datasheet and shorted link across terminals with a label on the wire link saying "Capacitor terminals shorted, zero stored energy"

Channelling Mandy Rice-Davies' statement in court, the traditional pithy response is "well, the terrorists would write that, wouldn't they".

[Psi]

You just want it obvious that you know what you're doing when they bring in an expert to look at it.
That will always be better than just a large supercar capacitor with no other info.

A fully charged supercap (like 3000F) will very happy start fires and melt steel, so there's definitely risk having one loose in your luggage if it's got any charge left.

[tggzzz]

You just want it obvious that you know what you're doing when they bring in an expert to look at it.

You think they have such experts readily available at a few minutes notice?

If there is any doubt in their minds, what do you think they will do? Load the plane, delay the flight, pull the owner off the flight so they can question them, retain the item for testing?

Don't forget standard screening questions are along the lines of "is this all your stuff" and "did you pack this yourself" and "has it been out of your possession". The passenger would give the "wrong" answer to two of those.

That will always be better than just a large supercar capacitor with no other info.

But will it be good enough?

[wraper]

Hi,
No specfic restrictions on carrying capacitors on passenger aircraft. However it is an unusual case and supercapacitors did not exist when most regulations were written. The energy limit for batteries is 100 Wh or 360 kJ. A 310 F 2.7 V capacitor is 1.1kJ so well under.

For Lithium batteries only. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/items/lithium-batteries-100-watt-hours-or-less-device

[Psi]

You just want it obvious that you know what you're doing when they bring in an expert to look at it.

<verbal diarrhoea>

That will always be better than just a large supercar capacitor with no other info.

But will it be good enough?

Who knows, but it's better than nothing.

[wraper]

My experience is to be persistent but polite. One time they tried to deny me bringing incandescent bulbs onto the plane. I was persistent enough they brought prohibited items booklet where economy bulbs were listed. I did not give up these were not economy bulbs until they got frustrated and let me through after like 15 minutes wasted.
I also brought some chemicals which they tried to deny but I got them trough eventually. Even though one of them was actually prohibited. Some information paper to show what it is certainly helps.

[wraper]

My experience in EU airports is that they don't give a damn what's in your check-in baggage. Never got called to an additional check. On other hand it was like 30% chance in large Russian airports and like 80% chance in one smaller airport.

[tszaboo]

My experience in EU airports is that they don't give a damn what's in your check-in baggage. Never got called to an additional check. On other hand it was like 30% chance in large Russian airports and like 80% chance in one smaller airport.

They probably wanted your money to grease the wheels for security. Same with police stopping you for no apparent reason abroad.

Although I just saw security stopping and checking someone's Christmas bread (filled with dried fruit and almond paste) for drugs or bombs. Sometimes they checked my coat. I just told them that I make my bombs in my other coat, they weren't amused.

The energy limit for batteries is 100 Wh or 360 kJ. A 310 F 2.7 V capacitor is 1.1kJ so well under.

The limit is in place for the lithium content, not the energy capacity.

[tggzzz]

My experience is to be persistent but polite.
...
Some information paper to show what it is certainly helps.

I did that with my daughter getting into Canada for a skiing holiday ~20 years ago. It took about an hour; the other holiday makers were not amused at the delay.

Paperwork didn't help. In fact it actively hindered the process: two new passports set alarm bells ringing.

[Kasper]

You just want it obvious that you know what you're doing when they bring in an expert to look at it.

<verbal diarrhoea>

That will always be better than just a large supercar capacitor with no other info.

But will it be good enough?

Who knows, but it's better than nothing.

But is it better than shipping it with a real courier instead of a friend?

[Robert763]

My experience is to be persistent but polite. One time they tried to deny me bringing incandescent bulbs onto the plane. I was persistent enough they brought prohibited items booklet where economy bulbs were listed. I did not give up these were not economy bulbs until they got frustrated and let me through after like 15 minutes wasted.
I also brought some chemicals which they tried to deny but I got them trough eventually. Even though one of them was actually prohibited. Some information paper to show what it is certainly helps.

So why do you think it is OK to carry a prohibited item? They are prohibited for good reason. You either had a actual or potential weapon or something that was a risk to aircraft  / passenger safety.

[Robert763]

<SNIP>

Although I just saw security stopping and checking someone's Christmas bread (filled with dried fruit and almond paste) for drugs or bombs. Sometimes they checked my coat. I just told them that I make my bombs in my other coat, they weren't amused.

The energy limit for batteries is 100 Wh or 360 kJ. A 310 F 2.7 V capacitor is 1.1kJ so well under.

The limit is in place for the lithium content, not the energy capacity.

No, the 100 W limit is not about lithium content, just energy. Lithium ion cells don't contain any metallic Lithium. There is a separate limit on metallic Lithium content (2g) which mainly applies to primary cells. Exceeding either 100W/h or 2g Lithium makes a battery (or large cell) illegal to carry on a passenger aircraft.

Food containing almonds can trigger some types of explosives detection.

[wraper]

So why do you think it is OK to carry a prohibited item? They are prohibited for good reason. You either had a actual or potential weapon or something that was a risk to aircraft  / passenger safety.

There was totally no risk. It just falls into oxidizing agents category which is prohibited. Why? Because I needed this drying agent for gas analysis to do my job. As of dangers, if there was condition when it would pose some danger, it wouldn't be our main trouble as it decomposes at 250^oC and there wasn't that much of it to begin with.