$20,000 dollars of software or licences on a thumbdrive ?

[MathWizard]

In some thread on here, I think some guy was working on embedded systems programming, and then Enterprise software mangement or something. Including stuff with AMD software or something he said he had $20,000 worth of, on a USB thumbdrive, and it broke. And so he would have to buy all the software or licences again.


Now I'm wondering about a legal aspect of this, like, say this thumbdrive had been stolen. Or even suppose it was built into a toy, and some bully at highschool or a bar/night club, decides to snatch it from you, and won't give it back.

Now would that count as stealing $20,000 ? So you could rightfully call the cops right away ?? What if they stomped on it, but had no idea what it was ?

I just hate bullies, so I just thought of that post I read on here.

[tom66]

If the replacement value of the thing is $20,000 but the actual market value is less (say $5, it's a thumbdrive) I suspect it would be a criminal damage charge rather than theft but I am certain either way the thief won't be paying for it, because they usually have little to no assets.  So you'd better hope your business insurance covers something like that.

[Ranayna]

In some thread on here, I think some guy was working on embedded systems programming, and then Enterprise software mangement or something. Including stuff with AMD software or something he said he had $20,000 worth of, on a USB thumbdrive, and it broke. And so he would have to buy all the software or licences again.


Now I'm wondering about a legal aspect of this, like, say this thumbdrive had been stolen. Or even suppose it was built into a toy, and some bully at highschool or a bar/night club, decides to snatch it from you, and won't give it back.

Now would that count as stealing $20,000 ? So you could rightfully call the cops right away ?? What if they stomped on it, but had no idea what it was ?

I just hate bullies, so I just thought of that post I read on here.

Sure, it is easy to have $20,000, or even $100,000 "worth" of software on a thumb drive. But having the software on the key does not make the key that valuable. Software can be copied at will. If you have your only copy of your irreplacable software on a thumbdrive, i have only few words for you: Reckless and stupid come to mind immediately.
Thumbdrives, especially modern ones, are 99% crap. The crappiest flash chips that are barely usable get used for thumbdrives.

If this "thumbdrive" is a licensing dongle, this may be a bit different, true. But as long as you have a proper support contract, you can always get the dongle replaced, since these things can die even if they are never moved. If you can't get it replaced, the software does not sound very enterprise-y, it sounds like extortion.
If you don't have a support contract in this scenario, and your livelyhood depends on this software, i come back to my previous statement: At best you are a reckless miser.

[SeanB]

If you are carrying around $20k on a single drive, with no backup image copy, on at least 2 other media, you are not doing it correctly.

[Psi]

A dead license dongle can usually be replaced for a small fee once you return the dead one.
But a lost dongle often results in having to fork out the full cost of a new license (or use insurance).

Mainly because if that was not the case, you could give it to a friend, say you lost it and get a cheap replacement and your friend could use the software for free as long as they stay offline so the lost dongle S/N never gets deactivate in an update.

[shapirus]

This is why non-FOSS licensing sucks.

[Ranayna]

Technically, at least nowadays, i would assume that such software needs some kind of online activation during initial setup. Either directly online, or via a Challenge-Response mechanism that could be done over the phone, like the original Windows activation.

That way, once you report your dongle as lost, it can get invalidated, and you get a new one. Old Aladdin tokens that i worked with in the past supported such a mechanism.

[tszaboo]

A dead license dongle can usually be replaced for a small fee once you return the dead one.
But a lost dongle often results in having to fork out the full cost of a new license (or use insurance).

Mainly because if that was not the case, you could give it to a friend, say you lost it and get a cheap replacement and your friend could use the software for free as long as they stay offline so the lost dongle S/N never gets deactivate in an update.

I'm in a bit of a doubt about this. Because if you have a dongle, that allows you to use a software that you are not licensed, you are still breaking the license agreement. So I don't think it would fly with any serious court that you have to buy a new license. Plus software like Orcad needed a license file and a dongle, and it was computer tied, and PITA to get working, with calls to the support department. I guess they will of course try to sell you a new license, but I don't think it's legally acceptable.

[MathWizard]

I'll try and find that post, but I'm amazed at the prices some of this software. But yeah I forget even something like Matlab, has some $2,150 perpetual license on their website.

[thm_w]

A dead license dongle can usually be replaced for a small fee once you return the dead one.
But a lost dongle often results in having to fork out the full cost of a new license (or use insurance).

Mainly because if that was not the case, you could give it to a friend, say you lost it and get a cheap replacement and your friend could use the software for free as long as they stay offline so the lost dongle S/N never gets deactivate in an update.

I'm in a bit of a doubt about this. Because if you have a dongle, that allows you to use a software that you are not licensed, you are still breaking the license agreement. So I don't think it would fly with any serious court that you have to buy a new license. Plus software like Orcad needed a license file and a dongle, and it was computer tied, and PITA to get working, with calls to the support department. I guess they will of course try to sell you a new license, but I don't think it's legally acceptable.

In court  maybe you'd be right, since the dongle has no real function. But doesn't stop companies from having the policies:
https://softron.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207695807-Policy-for-Lost-or-Stolen-dongles-Are-dongles-guaranteed
https://www.ecadstar.com/en/lost-license-files-dongles/ (they'll replace it for free IF you are paying maintenance, if not cough up the full price)
https://www.laserscanningforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17205

Just gives off the vibe of a unfriendly company, if using a dongle in 2024 wasn't bad enough already.

Surprisingly Altium would re-instate old licenses completely for free, even if you don't have maintenance.

[abeyer]

If you are carrying around $20k on a single drive, with no backup image copy, on at least 2 other media, you are not doing it correctly.

... or you're doing it so right that $20k isn't worth your time to be bothered over.

[tooki]

This is why non-FOSS licensing sucks.

Well that statement just means you don’t feel software is worth paying for. But there do exist non-FOSS licensing models that don’t suck. I remember when you could just - gasp! - buy software in a box and it asked, at the most, for a license key to be entered from a card in the box.

[shapirus]

This is why non-FOSS licensing sucks.

Well that statement just means you don’t feel software is worth paying for. But there do exist non-FOSS licensing models that don’t suck. I remember when you could just - gasp! - buy software in a box and it asked, at the most, for a license key to be entered from a card in the box.

Well that was somewhat of an overstatement, of course, for the most part as a reaction to certain ridiculous licensing practices. Some commercial licenses may be okay(ish).

[strawberry]

in case NAND chip is readable someone may try to copy contents
something like this

[Berni]

You can't always backup license carrying thumb drives as they might be locked to the thumb drives serial number.

Tho if you put in enough effort you can probably still spoof the serial. Still not something you can just do by plugging it in a PC and copying stuff over.

[tooki]

Well that was somewhat of an overstatement, of course, for the most part as a reaction to certain ridiculous licensing practices. Some commercial licenses may be okay(ish).

Well I will be the first to agree that many, many software companies have become greedy and unreasonable in their licensing.

I’m not even categorically opposed to subscription models (insofar as, having worked in the software industry years ago, I really do understand why subscriptions have some major advantages for both publisher and consumer*), but I think the pricing needs to be reasonable, and license management/activation reliable and measured. I still prefer perpetual licensing, though, and I think that as societies, we need to consider passing laws that require companies to ensure users retain access to their data even if the company decides to discontinue a product (and ends subscriptions for it) or if the company goes out of business. If that means that companies are forced to permanently unlock the software, or even release source code, I’m OK with that.


*Most of my work at the software company was doing user support, and it was a CONSTANT source of frustration that some customers wouldn’t update to the current version (even ones who used it under a site license, and thus had unrestricted access to all updates). They’d call or write with some bug or feature request, and it’d be some bug that had been fixed ages ago or feature that had already been added. And no, we’re not gonna invest the time to make sure our current software runs on your operating system that the OS vendor stopped updating 10 years ago. (And similarly, stop trying to run a 10 year old version of the software on today’s OS.)

[strawberry]

expected 3y lifetime and 1/5000 failure rate for consumer grade products
well invested 20000EUR

[Siwastaja]

The story is obviously made-up. Obviously when you buy expensive software, you register your order with the publisher and if you lose your copy, any company would give you a new copy. It's not like you'd anonymously buy a license for a multi-thousand $ software.

[Infraviolet]

"Thumbdrives, especially modern ones, are 99% crap"
And I swear they get worse year by year, I've USB sticks from the 2010s still perfectly working despite enough gigabytes copied on/deleted/replaced to cover the capacity several times, versus drives from the last few years which die before they're even full once.

[tooki]

I only buy top-quality thumb drives (Lexar, Sandisk, Samsung) and consequently have never had one fail, whether it was from 2004 or 2020.