Anyone else have problems with Batterfly?

[Lightages]

I purchased a couple of things from www.batterfly.com back last year. They were one of the few with DS1054Z in stock and their price and shipping were very competitive. I ordered with the mistaken understanding that they would ship by EMS Postal. It was my fault that I didn't make 100% sure they were using that shipping method, and of course when you don't make sure it usually goes a different way. They shipped by UPS.

When I received the shipping notice, I contacted them to let them know that this would be a big problem for me here because UPS in Chile charges silly fees for nothing. They also will not ship to a PO box. So after I explained this and asked for change in shipping method. When they wouldn't do that I asked, that was for them to change the shipping address to another that I had that UPS would deliver to, they replied:

"UPS is starting to deliver also to PO Boxes, so maybe it could be okay.
Anyway don't worry, if the delivery will not be completed we will change the delivery address."

They basically refused to make any changes and then refused to change the delivery address that UPS would not deliver to.

I received notice from UPS shortly after that, that the package was in Chile and I had to call them. I was given the choice to pay their jacked up fees and also pay for another courier to send the package to me in my town, or lose the shipment. Even though I had paid for door to door delivery and asked Batterfly to change the address before the package arrived to make the change so I would get the package, I ended up with a very expensive scope. UPS would not change the address once the package had arrived in Chile. I basically paid another $135USD over any normal import taxes for the pleasure of dealing with Batterfly. It was partially my fault in not making sure that they sent the package by EMS before they shipped, but their refusal to change the address in transit, which they could have when asked, cost me around $85 just for their laziness and bad customer service.

When I complained about the situation to Gianmarco Moroni, the managing director at Batterfly, he responded with:
"Dear Les, in professional business we have to trust each other.
Simone can not take any decision on shipments out of the company internal rules which belongs to the international laws of shipping goods.
Believe me, that was the only way to send you the goods.
Said that, I don’t want to make you unhappy.
Please collect your items and then send me an email showing the total cost UPS charged you. They must give you an expense note.
Then I will do my best to compensate your expense.
I think this message make very clear Batter Fly position."

I sent him the information when I got it and he responded on Jan 23 2015 with:
"Let me make the point , in the end they charged you:
27358 as handling
44859 as extra shipment

Please confirm. "

I sent an email confirming the amounts.

I have not heard from him since and he does not answer my emails nor my PMs here on the forums, even though he was active on the forums at the same time I sent him a PM and he has been active here many times since. He is ignoring a customer, or missed three emails and a PM on the forums plus the email telling him he had a PM. His username here is gmit77. He was active just yesterday in fact.

I seem to have very bad luck buying anything from the "civilized" part of the world. I didn't think that customer service in Europe could be worse than customer service in Chile.

I am only posting this here because I wish to warn others to use great care when buying from Batterfly as they will not follow up with after sales service, and because I was promised something and then ignored so perhaps they will get the message publicly.

[neslekkim]

Everyone in Italy does this, the postal system in Italy seems unusable, so they use UPS..

[Lightages]

The point that they did not us EMS for shipping is not the main point. I was ripped off by UPS because they would not change the shipping address when they were told it would cost me more money if they didn't. Gianmarco Moroni also promised to take of me after the mistake and now he is ignoring my attempts to communicate. I waited more than a fair time for him to respond, a month and a half.....

[Zucca]

Hi Lightages,
Looks like an Italian company... so basically it could happen they don´t care about the customer at the end. Once they got the money they disappear like snow under the sun.
It is not true that all the Italian companies works like this, but if they are low price then is more likely that something/someone is fishy there.

Anyway in Italy in case of a refund, you need a lot of patience and time. Just don´t give up and continue to contact them.

Let´s see if they will respond to this post....

[Towger]

I would not expect a company to change an address once an item is posted. It is one of the oldest fraud tricks in the book.
But I would expect them to refund any extra postage charges, you paid for delivery to your address and under EU laws this is what Batterfly has to provide.  So they should refund you your extra costs and it is up them to make a claim against UPS, if they want.
BTW the postal service in Italy is equivalent to a 3rd World country, many eBay sellers in Europe will not post to Italy...

[neslekkim]

It's not their fault for the address issue, I have had some issues with UPS, they are very difficult when it comes to changing adresses.. bah..

They should give good information about that they actually are using ups, so one can use correct adressinfo when ordering though.. That's what have suprised me sometimes when ordering stuff (Not from Batterfly, but others), that they use some shippingcompany, which later turns it over to UPS, and that gives me lot of headache..

[Lightages]

Let´s see if they will respond to this post....

He has been on the forums since this thread started, but who knows if he read it? I am not hopeful he will respond. He certainly responded when it was time to take my money, but not now.

[Isad]

This pretty common with some seller or company.
I ordered my Rigol Ds1074z from them best price for Europe
and free shipping with TnT.But they were a bit cold when it cam to shipping
i asked if they could ship it to me in my town but yeah they said
they only shipp with TNT and yeah i had to travel for 2h wich was only going then coming back in trafic
took me another 3h so yeah 5h wasted and had to pay 24% taxex wich i didnt even know they existed.
And about the scope it wasnt very well described it didnt say
anywere that it would come with the trial version wich i was very pissed when it first came.
I hope u get a replay very soon.Dont give up i would spam the shit out of the email if i were u  .lol

[wraper]

took me another 3h so yeah 5h wasted and had to pay 24% taxex wich i didnt even know they existed.

Ignorance of the law does not excuse. You are obliged to pay VAT on import regardless of the shipping company. Usually small value items are excluded of it, depends on country. My guess you had to drive only because decided to do customs clearance by yourself.

[Lightages]

Actually I disagree strongly with the saying "Ignorance of the law is no excuse". Governments make all kinds of laws, hundreds of thousands of them. How can anyone know them all? They also make many laws in secret without consultation or notice to the public. In this case it is impossible to be completely cognizant of the laws.

I think it would be better to say that just because he did not know the laws on importation that it is not the responsibility nor the fault of Batterfly that he had to pay those taxes. His ignorance of the importation laws is not a excuse to blame Batterfly.

[Isad]

took me another 3h so yeah 5h wasted and had to pay 24% taxex wich i didnt even know they existed.

Ignorance of the law does not excuse. You are obliged to pay VAT on import regardless of the shipping company. Usually small value items are excluded of it, depends on country. My guess you had to drive only because decided to do customs clearance by yourself.

 


Now here comes the funny part yes i decided to do it my self but
no on told me that they could bring the item to my city and do it there they told
after i payed the clearance that they could have brought it in my city i asked them before but
they said no you need to come here but nvm that there are like 1 milion and 1 post office here to ship and they decide TNT
that only ship to 1 city in my hole country.

[Isad]

Actually I disagree strongly with the saying "Ignorance of the law is no excuse". Governments make all kinds of laws, hundreds of thousands of them. How can anyone know them all? They also make many laws in secret without consultation or notice to the public. In this case it is impossible to be completely cognizant of the laws.

I think it would be better to say that just because he did not know the laws on importation that it is not the responsibility nor the fault of Batterfly that he had to pay those taxes. His ignorance of the importation laws is not a excuse to blame Batterfly.

I am not blaming Batterfly but yeah my government isnt the best.But seruis tho
TNT that only ships to 1 city in my hole country they could have shiped with fedex or ups or Dhl.
I am saying why chose only TNT.Oh and btw u might understand me wrong English is not my 1 language.

[Lightages]

So gmit77, Gianmarco MORONI, the Managing Director of Batterfly has been on the forums many times since I started this thread. It is obvious that they could care less about the costs they imposed on me and that his promise to show me how serious his company is came through. I now know how serious Batterfly is about taking care of their customers. Just another take the money and run company, and they are serious about doing it.

My advice, from one experience, is stay away from Batterfly.

[nctnico]

I'm sorry but you should have worked out the shipping method/ carrier with Batterfly BEFORE placing the order. You obviously know shipping to your country can be an 'advanture' and yet you assume all kinds of things going right.  Changing an address after a parcel has been shipped is something you really don't want to try because courier companies don't have the logistic support to do that. Chances are the parcel gets lost or delayed. Once a parcel is in their system it is routed towards a certain destination. Only after it arrives at a destination it can be diverted to a different destination or send back to the sender.

I really don't see how Batterfly could have done things better with the information you provided at the time of the sale. You placed an order and they shipped it to the address you provided using one of the better courier services available.

[Isad]

I'm sorry but you should have worked out the shipping method/ carrier with Batterfly BEFORE placing the order. You obviously know shipping to your country can be an 'advanture' and yet you assume all kinds of things going right.  Changing an address after a parcel has been shipped is something you really don't want to try because courier companies don't have the logistic support to do that. Chances are the parcel gets lost or delayed. Once a parcel is in their system it is routed towards a certain destination. Only after it arrives at a destination it can be diverted to a different destination or send back to the sender.

I really don't see how Batterfly could have done things better with the information you provided at the time of the sale. You placed an order and they shipped it to the address you provided using one of the better courier services available.

No they couldnt have done anything better
but yeah why arent they contacting him anymore.

[Lightages]

I admitted my part in the error. UPS has the option to change the shipping address. Batterfly refused to make the change to the address with a lame excuse.

Gianmarco said he would do something but he is ignoring me now. That is what my complaint is about.

[steen1]

I cannot see why you should blame Batterfly. Blame UPS for the high fee in you country. Don't blame Batterfly for not refounding a fee for UPS, that your mistake are the causing.

As someone wrote, changing the address are a typical fraud, so of cause Batterfly shouldn't do that.

You got your scope when it was sold out anywhere, don't cry anymore...

[Lightages]

The change in address was still my name. UPS allows the change of address. They didn't tell me they wouldn't change the address because of fear of fraud but rather because UPS was delivering to post boxes now. They aren't.

Again, despite all that was done, Gianmarco said he would do something. It is his word, not mine, his promise, not my expectation, that has been dropped. Ignoring a customer is what this complaint is about. All he needed to do was reply, any reply, and then he wouldn't be ignoring me. And FYI I did not ask for anything, he offered and then ignores me.

Hmmm, let's see, you, steen1, have two posts. Your first post is to ask for a discount code, and the second to tell someone else to stop complaining about something. Welcome to the forums. 

[gmit77]

Dear Sirs, we are a professional company working following the Italian and Eurpean laws. NO TRICKS ARE PERMITTED.
European shipping costs are listed in our website, we only ship using TNT Express wich bring the items to the customer doorstep in 2 to 3 days max everywhere in EU.
Shipping out of EU we supply a cost which take care only about the shipment and not about customs, extra costs and duties, we specify this into our quotations.

We care a lot about customers pre and post sales, we have many reader here which took items from us, got discount code, and delivery in few days.

It is not a matter of money, it is a matter of qualityof service. Of course we are not perfect.

Best Regards.

[Isad]

Dear Sirs, we are a professional company working following the Italian and Eurpean laws. NO TRICKS ARE PERMITTED.
European shipping costs are listed in our website, we only ship using TNT Express wich bring the items to the customer doorstep in 2 to 3 days max everywhere in EU.
Shipping out of EU we supply a cost which take care only about the shipment and not about customs, extra costs and duties, we specify this into our quotations.

We care a lot about customers pre and post sales, we have many reader here which took items from us, got discount code, and delivery in few days.

It is not a matter of money, it is a matter of qualityof service. Of course we are not perfect.

Best Regards.

About that TNT evrywear in the EU u should change
that for real.

[Lightages]

Dear Sirs, we are a professional company working following the Italian and Eurpean laws. NO TRICKS ARE PERMITTED.
European shipping costs are listed in our website, we only ship using TNT Express wich bring the items to the customer doorstep in 2 to 3 days max everywhere in EU.
Shipping out of EU we supply a cost which take care only about the shipment and not about customs, extra costs and duties, we specify this into our quotations.

We care a lot about customers pre and post sales, we have many reader here which took items from us, got discount code, and delivery in few days.

It is not a matter of money, it is a matter of qualityof service. Of course we are not perfect.

Best Regards.

It is very nice of you to finally respond. I have sent you emails and pm'd you here and you have not responded. I only made this public when you refused to respond to my emails. It is interesting that you assess the quality of service you give based solely on the customers who have had no problems.

Remember, I did not ask for anything in our emails. I merely stated that I was unhappy with the way you handled the shipment and that the laziness of your colleague cost me money that was not necessary and that I would probably not be doing business with you again. You said that you did not want me to be unhappy and to send you the information regarding the extra costs incurred and you said:

"Then I will do my best to compensate your expense.

I think this message make very clear Batter Fly position."

and then I didn't hear from you again and you haven't answered my emails asking if there was going to be any further about this. All I wanted to know was if I could forget anything from you and move on or did you get my emails at all. Not answering my emails for 2 months is certainly not perfect.  If I had a warranty issue and wanted to ship back to you I am sure you would respond even more quickly. 

I guess I cannot expect you to respond to me privately as you had the option to do so, still haven't, and have only responded here with a defensive company policy statement. So I guess I can forget any warranty service requests if needed as they will get ignored too?

[gmit77]

Dear Lightages, your issue has been solved from our side.
Now is up to you if you like post it here.
We will not.

Thanks.

[Lightages]

Dear gmit77:

I have received your email with your offer of a small compensation. I have heard so many different stories from your company it is hard to tell who is in charge and what policies you actually follow. I am truly sorry that it had to come to a public calling out after being ignored by you for 2 months. It is evident that you have a different way of looking at customer service when you say "Dear Lightages, your issue has been solved from our side.". We obviously see things very differently but at least you have made an offer. I will accept small compensation as it would be silly to refuse it.

If you had actually just answered my emails and followed up with even just a "no", I would have let it go and kept it a private thing. Not answering me for 2 months is what made me decide to make it public.

Good luck with your business and I hope that communication becomes part of your customer after sales service.

[gmit77]

Hello Lightages, thanks for your note.