[DONE] Sugon 8650 110VAC NEW still in unopen box - because of unionrepair.com

[abeyer]

BS!  I've been using PayPal since Ebay made them mandatory over 20 years ago and I've charged back a number of items via PayPal and they've never given me any grief about it. As long as someone has a legitimate reason to make a chargeback they shouldn't have to worry about PayPal and the OP has a rock solid case for the item not being as described.

There are plenty of people who don't have issues, but there are decades of horror stories out there, too, and at the end of the day you're at their mercy. Up to you to decide if it's worth it to take the chance. 

[digger]

I've charged back a number of items via PayPal and they've never given me any grief

you've done a chargeback through your CC on a PP purchase? did you do a PP dispute first?

i assumed that PP would retaliate against you by clawing money back from your PP balance and/or from linked bank accounts or by terminating your account... i have experienced similar behavior from other things like from "buyee" (yahoo japan auctions proxy service).

however, check this out:

https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/buyer-protection

Dispute with PayPal or Your Card Issuer

If you used a debit or credit card as the payment method for a transaction through your PayPal account and you are dissatisfied with the transaction, you may be entitled to dispute the transaction with your card issuer. Applicable card chargeback rights may be broader than those available to you under PayPal’s Purchase Protection program. For example, if you dispute a transaction with your card issuer, you may be able to recover amounts you paid for unsatisfactory items even if they don’t qualify for protection under a Significantly Not as Described claim with us.

You must choose whether to pursue a dispute with PayPal under our Purchase Protection program, or to pursue the dispute with your card issuer. You can’t do both at the same time or seek a double recovery. If you pursue a dispute/claim with us and you also pursue a dispute for the same transaction with your card issuer, we’ll close your dispute/claim with us. This won’t affect the dispute process with your card issuer. In addition, if you pursue a dispute with your card issuer, you cannot pursue a dispute/claim with us later.

If you choose to dispute a transaction with PayPal and we decide against you, you can seek to pursue the dispute with your card issuer later. If PayPal does not make a final decision on your claim until after your card issuer’s deadline for filing a dispute, and because of our delay you recover less than the full amount you would have been entitled to recover from the card issuer, we will reimburse you for the remainder of your loss (minus any amount you have already recovered from the seller or your card issuer).

Before contacting your card issuer or filing a dispute with PayPal, you should contact the seller to attempt to resolve your issue in accordance with the seller’s return policy.

(emphasis mine)

i'm astonished by how reasonable their policy sounds. so yeah, i would totally follow up with a CC chargeback if the PP dispute does not work out. i'd drain my PP balance and unlink my bank accounts first, though. lool

[Zucca]

unionrepair.com responded to my PP case:



okay... but I think it is not right I have to bank out over $165 now to ship something back I did not order.
Normally the seller is very sorry, send an return label to the buyer and the item goes back to them.

My spider senses are now telling me my money stays in the bank and they have to pay to get the item back.

[digger]

unionrepair.com responded to my PP case

don't fall over, man. keep fighting.

lol obviously they want you to do that because the shipping is expensive, and they don't want to pay it. further, they probably think that there is a fair chance you will abandon the claim if you think you have to pay to send it back.

i suggest explaining that the item is "significantly not as described" which is a PP term.

this would be my message:

hello, to re-iterate, i ordered a 240V unit but received a 120V unit that i cannot use because the voltage is incorrect. i.e. the item i received is significantly not as described. the item is expensive for me to ship back to you since i do not have access to commercial shipping rates – i was quoted over $165 to return it. since this is your error, can you please provide me with an insured, prepaid label to return it to you?

then i would see what happens. the reason why i suggest documenting the $165 thing is to make it clear to the PP agent reviewing the dispute. i'm hypothesizing that the agent may realize that this is significant compared to the cost of the item and be more likely to say you don't have to return it or make the seller pay for return shipping.

so maybe the seller will just offer to pay, maybe not. maybe paypal – even if they side with you – will tell you that you have to pay to return it, maybe not.

https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/buyer-protection

IMPORTANT: You may be required to return the item to the seller or other party we specify as part of the settlement of your claim. PayPal’s Purchase Protection program does not entitle you to coverage for the return shipping costs that you may incur.
...
Step 4: Comply with PayPal’s shipping requests in a timely manner, if you’re filing a Significantly Not as Described claim. PayPal may require you, at your expense, to ship the item back to the seller, to PayPal or to a third party (which will be specified by PayPal) and to provide proof of delivery.

so yeah, actually, i take back what i said about PP's policy being reasonable. it's shit. imagine how a foreign vendor can abuse this policy to scam customers if the return shipping is prohibitively expensive, lol...

if things are not looking good, i would call paypal and then ask them to escalate it to a supervisor or whatever. just from googling, i've heard that this can yield good results, but the tier 0 peons usually can't help. gotta escalate. also, remember that the sticking point is you received the incorrect voltage and cannot use the item.

did you pay with a CC?

i would consider doing a chargeback if the PP dispute ends up not helping you resolve this to your satisfaction.

in addition, in the future, i would not use PP at all as i explained a couple of posts ago. pay with a CC for normal online shopping. if there is a problem, talk to the seller. if the seller doesn't fix it, explain that you will initiate a chargeback if they do not resolve it to your satisfaction. if that fails, then follow through on the threat.

if the seller accepts PP as their only payment method, i would just check out as a guest (paying with CC) and not sign into your paypal account. if there's an issue the seller won't fix, i wouldn't involve PP at all. i'd call my CC and do a chargeback.

a CC (especially a good one) offers way stronger buyer protections and less hassle.

[Zucca]

I did not pay with a CC, so PP is my only hope.

Digger you are a life saver, your support is much appreciate. Like a pro!

I sent a message to them asking to send me the return label. Let's see what they say then.

[Zucca]

if the seller accepts PP as their only payment method, i would just check out as a guest (paying with CC) and not sign into your paypal account. if there's an issue the seller won't fix, i wouldn't involve PP at all. i'd call my CC and do a chargeback.

a CC (especially a good one) offers way stronger buyer protections and less hassle.

Unionrepair doesn't accept credit cards. PP was the best option for me.

[Brumby]

The question then becomes.... What was the source of funding for PayPal?

In my case, it is a VISA card - so if PayPal doesn't sort it, then I can hit up the bank that issued the VISA card and file a chargeback with them.  PayPal won't like that, but they know it is a possibility.

[tggzzz]

Unionrepair doesn't accept credit cards.

That's a red flag for an established business. It implies CC companies have had trouble with them in the past, or there are trade barriers that will complicate matters.

[Zucca]

The question then becomes.... What was the source of funding for PayPal?

my bank, because I wanted to avoid fees.

[Zucca]

That's a red flag for an established business. It implies CC companies have had trouble with them in the past, or there are trade barriers that will complicate matters.

...or they want to go as cheap as possible.
That said I agree 110% with you, it has become very clear to me.

[tggzzz]

That's a red flag for an established business. It implies CC companies have had trouble with them in the past, or there are trade barriers that will complicate matters.

...or they want to go as cheap as possible.
That said I agree 110% with you, it has become very clear to me.

Something being too cheap / good to be true is also a red flag

Oh well, at least it is a new mistake, and not the end of the world!

[Zucca]

Something being too cheap / good to be true is also a red flag

Of course, in this case is was the cheapest available but not in the "for sure scam" territory.

[KE5FX]

PayPal should have your back on this.  Do not under any circumstances issue a CC chargeback against PayPal unless you are OK being banned from their service.

If you feel like gambling, one alternative might be to open the unit up and see if there is an obvious 110V/220V jumper on the transformer primary side.  Good chance there is.  There may be two primary windings that can be used in series or parallel...

(Edit: watching the video above it looks like the transformer is in fact labeled 230V, so the above is probably not great advice.  The 1300W heating element probably isn't configurable in any event.)

[Zucca]

After escalating with PP, unionrepair provided an UPS return label and the unit was dropped off today.
Now once they receive it, I should get all my money back.