[DONE] Sugon 8650 110VAC NEW still in unopen box - because of unionrepair.com

[Zucca]

It seems I do have bad luck with buying a new hot air station.
This is why I decided to buy a Sugon 8650.

I am in located in USA but I moved from EU, so my bench runs on 240VAC 60Hz here in USA. I ordered a Sugon 8650 from https://www.unionrepair.com and I selected the 220VAC version. The customer service thought it was my mistake and changed it to the 110VAC version and shipped it. They sent a message with their system notifying their action, but I was able to read it only after 3 days and it was too late.

So I have now a boxed Sugon 8650 110VAC I did not ordered.

unionrepair will give me a full refund but the shipping cost to china are out of my pocket, and it does not make sense to sent it back.
They are very polite in telling me they painted myself in a corner.

Anyone want this nice hot air station?

I paid $356.72. Anyone wants it for 330$ shipping included?

Trying to minimize the loss here... even if it was not my fault.... 

It's a very nice unit:

[jonpaul]

A 110V rated (Japan mains?) will be 10% over loaded on a 120 V mains in USA (nom can be up to 128V)

Same for a 220V unit on 240V nominal

Jon

[J-R]

Japan is 100V, not 110V.

Before the US standardized on 120V, we also had 110V, 112V, 115V and 117V.  It's very common here in the US to see some of those printed on older electric equipment.

It's also common for modern devices to be a little bit sloppy with their labeling, or they will try to limit the number of choices by fudging the numbers a little.  For example, I have some new Keysight equipment that has only three settings: 100V, 115V and 230V.

[Zero999]

A 110V rated (Japan mains?) will be 10% over loaded on a 120 V mains in USA (nom can be up to 128V)

Same for a 220V unit on 240V nominal

Jon

No it's worse than that since P = V²/R

Increasing the voltage from 110V to 220V will increase the power by 20%.

[elektryk]

Increasing the voltage from 110V to 220V will increase the power by 20%.

Rather 110V to 120V.

[rsjsouza]

In my experience, the difference between 110V and 120V is almost academic... In Brazil, where the nominal voltage on about 60% of the cities has changed over the decades (110V, 120V, 127V), equipment and appliances were always used interchangeably with some minimal practical results (except incandescent light bulbs which were sensibly shorter lived). I don't think the station would have its heater directly fed by the mains, so the lifespan influence would not be very significant. 

[testpoint1]

In my experience, the difference between 110V and 120V is almost academic... In Brazil, where the nominal voltage on about 60% of the cities has changed over the decades (110V, 120V, 127V), equipment and appliances were always used interchangeably with some minimal practical results (except incandescent light bulbs which were sensibly shorter lived). I don't think the station would have its heater directly fed by the mains, so the lifespan influence would not be very significant.

no, if that is directed power supply element, just like the heating element, for example, Hakko 808 desoldering station, japan version is 100V, if you used it in US, the heating element will be burnt in any time.

[Bud]

I nhave a Hakko desoldering gun which i bought cheap from Japan. The heating element is the same part number as US version. Works fine. Temperature calibration maybe a bit off but i never bothered to adjust.

[thm_w]

I don't understand, you wired your whole bench for 220V exclusively?
Why would you not have 110V, surely you'll add some 110 stuff if you are planning on staying in the US for more than a few years.

[Zucca]

I don't understand, you wired your whole bench for 220V exclusively?
Why would you not have 110V, surely you'll add some 110 stuff if you are planning on staying in the US for more than a few years.

because I plan to go back in Europe at some point.

[Zucca]

In my experience, the difference between 110V and 120V is almost academic...

110% this.
A good designed device should work +-20% nominal volt mains input.

[rsjsouza]

In my experience, the difference between 110V and 120V is almost academic... In Brazil, where the nominal voltage on about 60% of the cities has changed over the decades (110V, 120V, 127V), equipment and appliances were always used interchangeably with some minimal practical results (except incandescent light bulbs which were sensibly shorter lived). I don't think the station would have its heater directly fed by the mains, so the lifespan influence would not be very significant.

no, if that is directed power supply element, just like the heating element, for example, Hakko 808 desoldering station, japan version is 100V, if you used it in US, the heating element will be burnt in any time.

There is no mention of differences between Japan and US. From 110V (as stated above) to US (120V) the issue is absolutely minimal.

I have inadvertently plugged my Japanese FR-301 in 120V (by accident) and used it for about 1/2 hour. Apart from a louder pump operation, no other issues happened. Given its cost, I will not keep using it (I have a step down transformer for this tool).

[J-R]

For Hakko, some products are sold with specific voltages in mind, others cover a wide array of voltages and in some cases don't have any adjustments for the voltage input.
Hakko FR-301 has two voltage ranges with minimal power differences, 100V-120V and 220V-240V: https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fr301_spec.html
Hakko FR-810B appears to have just one, 100V-240V and the output power varies drastically: https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fr810b_spec.html

So for the Sugon 8650 I would speculate that they only have two models, one labelled 110V for 100V-120V and another labelled 220V for 220V-240V.  Is this information published in the manual???

[Brumby]

In my experience, the difference between 110V and 120V is almost academic...

110% this.
A good designed device should work +-20% nominal volt mains input.

A lovely example of why being pedantic about voltages is not particularly persuasive.

In 2000, Australia went from a 240V standard to a 230V standard .... OVERNIGHT.

The secret of how this was done without any immediate equipment change lies in the next level of detail of the specification:

240V standard: 240V +6%,-10%
230V standard: 230V +10%,-6%

Do the math.

[digger]

what tips does it come with?

it's a beautiful station! i'm sort of interested even though my old, crappy station is still working and refusing to die.

Trying to minimize the loss here... even if it was not my fault.... 

loss? why didn't you threaten to do a credit card chargeback? they did not deliver what you ordered. surely they'd refund you or send you a new unit for free because otherwise you'd do a chargeback, and they'd end up paying an extra chargeback fee on top of the refund.

you sure you're not selling a unit you got for free? that's what you should be doing. that's what i would be doing. 

i am pretty confident that you should be able to get a full refund including shipping etc. if the vendor doesn't do that for you after you threaten a chargeback, then go ahead and follow through on the threat.

either fix your story or go get your money back from them or from visa.....

this should not be a loss for you. their mistake should be a $300 windfall in fact.

[Stray Electron]

    I'm with Digger here.  It's not your fault that the seller changed the order without contacting you first and then sent you the wrong model. File a Dispute with your CC company or whoever you used to pay for the order. And if you bought the item through Ebay or Amazon, you can file a dispute with them too.

  FYI for others, even though most household power in the US is 110 volts (or 115, or 117 or 120 or what ever you want to call it). 230 VAC is also available in every home and is used for large appliances such as air conditioners, stoves, water heaters, clothes dryers and so forth. And lot of people wire up their work shops with both 110 VAC and 230 VAC and use 230 VAC for welders and machine tools and many use 230VAC powered hand tools.  I have hand held drills, sanders, circular saws and scroll saws that are powered by 230VAC.  I use 110 VAC powered hand tools most of the time but I was gifted a bunch to 220/230 VAC powered tools from someone that brought them back from Oman so I keep them for when I might need them.

[Brumby]

As for the supply error - that is the full responsibility of NOT YOU.

If they were so concerned about your choice, they should have ASKED you about it and waited for a reply instead of making an assumption and sending you what they thought you should get.

There are times to be nice ... and there are times to dig your heels in.  This is an instance of the latter.

[digger]

apologies for continuing to drag this off topic, but regardless of the measured voltage (which should not matter for a well designed device if it's close enough), the modern convention in the US is to call it a multiple of 120. not of 110 or 115.

[J-R]

Current Australian standard as of 2022 (AS IEC 60038:2022) is 230V +/- 10%.

The US service-side standard is 120V +/- 5% but there are extra details such as -10% is OK on the consumption (device) side and there are even further variances allowed as long as they are "limited in extent, frequency and duration".

As mentioned previously, plenty of manufacturers are sloppy.  Just the other day I was looking at small refrigerators made in China, and they were all covered with "110V" labels.

[Zucca]

As for the supply error - that is the full responsibility of NOT YOU.

I am embarrassed to admit sometime I need another pair of eyes to see the obvious.

I just opened a PayPal case:


This selling is on hold for now.

[digger]

This selling is on hold for now.

to be clear, at this point, they have missed their opportunity for you to return it to them at their own expense. now that you are essentially doing a chargeback, you should fully expect to get the unit for free.

congrats

if you already have a 240V unit (or one on the way), go ahead and sell this whenever you feel ready.

edit:

my analysis of the situation is this. shipping from us→cn is very expensive. the cost is quite asymmetric.

they gambled on you not doing a chargeback (or PP dispute in this case... note that in the remote chance the dispute fails, a chargeback should be your next move if you paid with CC). they lost the gamble, so they can Sugon Deez, lol

the cheapest option would have been for them to offer you a partial refund.

next cheapest option would have been to send you a new 240V unit and say keep the old one. i say this because they are only out the wholesale unit price of the new unit + cn→us shipping.

next cheapest would be incurring a chargeback since they're out the full retail price of the old unit (including cn→us shipping and merchant fees) + chargeback fee + hit to their reputation.

[Zucca]

240V standard: 240V +6%,-10%
230V standard: 230V +10%,-6%

Do the math.

240V standard: 254.4V - 216V
230V standard: 253V - 216.2V

now if I have to design a device powered from mains these below are my specs:

240V: 288V - 192V
230V: 276V - 184V

[abeyer]

(or PP dispute in this case... note that in the remote chance the dispute fails, a chargeback should be your next move if you paid with CC)

I'd be very leery about doing that, and consider whether it's worth it... while you're correct that you'd be perfectly justified in doing a CC chargeback, PayPal's stance has always been that if you chargeback a dispute that wasn't in your favor they will permanently ban you from their platform. (they also used to try to claw the money back out of other accounts, if you had a linked bank account, though I think they got in trouble for that.)

You probably would get your money back in a CC chargeback in that scenario, but you'd likely struggle to ever order anything again that relied on paypal payment.

[digger]

(or PP dispute in this case... note that in the remote chance the dispute fails, a chargeback should be your next move if you paid with CC)

I'd be very leery about doing that, and consider whether it's worth it... while you're correct that you'd be perfectly justified in doing a CC chargeback, PayPal's stance has always been that if you chargeback a dispute that wasn't in your favor they will permanently ban you from their platform. (they also used to try to claw the money back out of other accounts, if you had a linked bank account, though I think they got in trouble for that.)

You probably would get your money back in a CC chargeback in that scenario, but you'd likely struggle to ever order anything again that relied on paypal payment.

that's a very good point. just one more reason to not pay with paypal unless there is a good reason to do so: mainly person-to-person payments when there is no better option available (e.g. zelle). a routine, CC-funded, online retail purchase is probably not a good use case because you're subject to PP's dispute process instead of your CC's unless you want to risk your PP acct.

i've only done a couple of CC chargebacks. supposedly if you abuse it, your CC might do something, idk. but it was painless. i did it over the phone. they just asked me a few basic questions, immediately sided with me, and never followed up for more info or anything.

[Stray Electron]

I'd be very leery about doing that, and consider whether it's worth it... while you're correct that you'd be perfectly justified in doing a CC chargeback, PayPal's stance has always been that if you chargeback a dispute that wasn't in your favor they will permanently ban you from their platform. (they also used to try to claw the money back out of other accounts, if you had a linked bank account, though I think they got in trouble for that.)

You probably would get your money back in a CC chargeback in that scenario, but you'd likely struggle to ever order anything again that relied on paypal payment.

  BS!  I've been using PayPal since Ebay made them mandatory over 20 years ago and I've charged back a number of items via PayPal and they've never given me any grief about it. As long as someone has a legitimate reason to make a chargeback they shouldn't have to worry about PayPal and the OP has a rock solid case for the item not being as described.