EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope

[Martin72]

By the way, my question about the decreased fan power and if they (rigol) got it in mind what heating up the enviroment concerns due to this wouldn´t be answered until now.

Got the answer, it was tested by the developement department before release.

[alexvg]

I've received a similar answer...

The manufacturer (Rigol) has tested the equipment and informs us that the temperature released by the device is normal.

I think the cooling has been voluntary reduced to lower the noise but knowing that in the long-term, the life of the device would be decreased.


update:
I've done the new skirt with 300g/m2 paper, the results are little better (original Rigol cooling/previous test/90g paper test/300g paper test) :

Code: [Select]

internal regulator                 68C / 50C / 51C / 50C
hottest analog front-end channel   51C / 40C / 42C / 42C
LA connector                       56C / 34C / 41C / 39C
hottest BNC connector              39C / 34C / 37C / 38C

The new skirt fits perfectly !!!


update #2
I've added a second diode to the Noctua 92mm 5V fan to reduce its speed and noise (now its voltage is 4.1V).
I've plugged the Noctua 120mm to the 9V output (its noise keep very low).

Temperature results (original Rigol cooling/this test)

Code: [Select]

internal regulator                 68C / 51C
hottest analog front-end channel   51C / 42C
LA connector                       56C / 42C
hottest BNC connector              39C / 37C


[hhappy1]

Hi. sir.~

The arbitrary waveform format is '.arb'

Do you know the editing software?

I don't think it's compatible with other devices.

[thm_w]

Hi. sir.~

The arbitrary waveform format is '.arb'
Do you know the editing software?

I don't think it's compatible with other devices.

Ultra Station uses: csv, raf, txt as extensions.
The format looks very simple so maybe you just need to rename it to csv and it will work?

Code: [Select]

x-axis,WaveGen-ARB
second,Volt
0.000000E+00,1.0000E-01
2.857143E-02,0.0000E+00
5.714286E-02,1.0000E-03
8.571429E-02,2.0000E-03
1.142857E-01,3.0000E-03
1.428571E-01,0.0000E+00
1.714286E-01,0.0000E+00
 
Wow though, I never even knew you could edit an ARB waveform on the scope itself, very cool. That could be super useful if they had a non-50 ohm output... or you could throw on a simple buffer circuit powered via USB.
edit: playing with it too much can lock up the UI though.
edit2: no its completely different format than csv or txt, so for now you'd have to convert it, I have no idea why they did that. I think this format is the best though (csv/txt used fixed time steps).

[mabl]

Ultra Station uses: csv, raf, txt as extensions.
The format looks very simple so maybe you just need to rename it to csv and it will work?

Code: [Select]

x-axis,WaveGen-ARB
second,Volt
0.000000E+00,1.0000E-01
2.857143E-02,0.0000E+00
5.714286E-02,1.0000E-03
8.571429E-02,2.0000E-03
1.142857E-01,3.0000E-03
1.428571E-01,0.0000E+00
1.714286E-01,0.0000E+00
 

When saved as .arb file, the scope successfully loads the voltage levels.

[mabl]

Problem is with the fact that it is not specified how HIRES is done and that you have no control over how many averages (how many bits) HIRES is doing. They might be doing it with filter of length 2 which would only give 0,5 bit enhancement which would pretty much be not visible.
It should be made like averaging so you can set how many bits of enhancement you want and it should correspondingly show effective sampling rate AND effective bandwidth with that filter setting..

At least the new firmware shows the 3-db bandwidth of the HIRES mode whenever sample rate/memory depth changes....

[Martin72]

New firmware.....
Doesn´t appear for downloading at the rigol USA or Europe site so far.

What the hi-res thing concerns, everyone knows that I´m moaning about as you can´t see anything "better" in this mode.
Maybe I get things wrong, because:
Actually we have a lecroy HDO scope on loan, which got a "natural" 12 bit resolution.
And I measured the same signal as months before ( must search here), a sinewave current over an 1 shunt.
And it appears as noisy as on 8-bit scopes.
After choosing the "Eres" function, +3bit, it becomes "clean" to see.
Could it be that enhanced resolution does not equal a higher vertical resolution in general, rather somekind of filtering ?

[Fungus]

Could it be that enhanced resolution does not equal a higher vertical resolution in general, rather somekind of filtering ?

Yes.

[Martin72]

Ah, so I want to put it on my wishlist for further updates.
Even siglent´s lower cost models got this function…

[Martin72]

And I did it on my wishlist and wrote a mail to rigol…

The confuison was that lecroy claimed the enhanced resolution thing as a benefit of the vertical resolution instead as a filter.
So you can read for example vertical resolution 8bit ( with enhanced resolution 11 bit) in the specs.
Enhanced resolution is a noise filter, nevertheless rigol didn´t have this on the 3 models I know (DS1054, DS2072, MSO5).
Would be a nice to have…...

[tautech]

Ah, so I want to put it on my wishlist for further updates.
Even siglent´s lower cost models got this function…

All recent models for ~5 years !

It's just another necessary tool in the toolbox !

[Martin72]

I was massive surprised as I exprierence it on my former siglent sds 1104x-e scope.
Every scope should have this function and I was what this concerns really clear to rigol.

[Hydrawerk]

Hello, is it a good idea to buy a RIGOL MSO5102 now? Is it a mature product now? Well, it was introduced many months ago. Is the firmware still buggy? BTW I still have my DSOX2002A bought back in 2013 and it is OK. The memory is not that huge, but it is enought for me.

[MegaVolt]

Hello, is it a good idea to buy a RIGOL MSO5102 now? Is it a mature product now? Well, it was introduced many months ago. Is the firmware still buggy? BTW I still have my DSOX2002A bought back in 2013 and it is OK. The memory is not that huge, but it is enought for me.

It is better to take MSO5104. The difference in price is exactly equal to the price of two probes.

The oscilloscope itself is quite working. Especially if you are not interested in 50 ohms. There are nuances but they are not great.

[TK]

Hello, is it a good idea to buy a RIGOL MSO5102 now? Is it a mature product now? Well, it was introduced many months ago. Is the firmware still buggy? BTW I still have my DSOX2002A bought back in 2013 and it is OK. The memory is not that huge, but it is enought for me.

Why MSO5102 if you are going to hack it?  Buy the MSO5074

[TK]

I saved a Wave in .csv format (another option is .bin)... but when I want to load it back, it only loads .wfm files... Am I missing something???

[thm_w]

I saved a Wave in .csv format (another option is .bin)... but when I want to load it back, it only loads .wfm files... Am I missing something???

Don't think you are missing anything. We discussed a bit here but about the arb formats: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2568447/#msg2568447

You can save and load waveforms if you use Reference button, then Export, it will let you save in bin/csv/ref. Then when you load a waveform it accepts .ref (why its necessary for another format again, not sure).
Looks like ref is about 80kB to 800kB+ for a file, whereas bin file is 4x larger 320K to 3MB (depending on pts). So Ref only saves 1 channel whereas "save wave" should save all channels it seems.

You could submit it as a bug to support.

[Fungus]

I saved a Wave in .csv format (another option is .bin)... but when I want to load it back, it only loads .wfm files... Am I missing something???

Yes.

.wfm files have a lot of extra meta-information that .csv doesn't have (eg. vertical position on screen, vertical scale, horizontal scale, memory depth, etc...)

It would be very difficult to load .csv and get your exact screen display back.

You could submit it as a bug to support.

It's not a bug. Once you start with "load .csv" then it's a long and slippery slope. People would want to generate lists of numbers in Excel/Python/Random-data-logging-device then expect to load them into the 'scope and do FFTs on it, etc.

It's an oscilloscope, not a spreadsheet.

[TK]

If what you are saving with "Save Wave" is different from what you are reading with "Load Wave", then at least Rigol must change the name on the menu.  It is confusing.

[thm_w]

It's not a bug. Once you start with "load .csv" then it's a long and slippery slope. People would want to generate lists of numbers in Excel/Python/Random-data-logging-device then expect to load them into the 'scope and do FFTs on it, etc.

It's an oscilloscope, not a spreadsheet.

No, load CSV is not the bug I'm implying, that would be an added feature, "save as .wfm" is the bug. DS1000/2000 can both save in wfm format afaik.

edit: I tried loading a DS1052E .wfm file and it stated "invalid file format", but I think that is expected that different series are incompatible. Its also very hard to find example ds1000/ds2000 example WFM files online to download.
There is also this: https://rigol.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2282335-wfm-converter

[delfinom]

MSO5000 now has a special promo until March that unlocks all serial decoding and power analysis for free

https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0065:d-0001/0/-/-/-/-/index.htm

[TK]

MSO5000 now has a special promo until March that unlocks all serial decoding and power analysis for free

https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0065:d-0001/0/-/-/-/-/index.htm

And wavegen

[matlipinski]

MSO5000 now has a special promo until March that unlocks all serial decoding and power analysis for free but it applies only to new devices purchased after 10.10.2019. Nice RIGOL... I have bought few days earlier...  There is no info about that anywhere!

[TK]

MSO5000 now has a special promo until March that unlocks all serial decoding and power analysis for free but it applies only to new devices purchased after 10.10.2019. Nice RIGOL... I have bought few days earlier...  There is no info about that anywhere!

They are not being transparent about the promotion, I was told it started October 1st by Rigol North America.   

[ebclr]

Do the promotion yourself  It's not that hard